Quote from Scawen :

I keep wanting to post, but can't think of anything new to say. Our reasons for working the way we do are well documented, and understood by many people, some of who have posted on this thread.

It's quite strange that some people think we are hiding something, not telling the truth and so on. Our biggest mistake seems to have been, ever announcing anything we planned to work on or release. Because those are the things that are held against us most often.

I've tried to explain the complication of developing a tyre model but really you won't get it from my few words, you'd have to try yourself to see all the issues that come up.

Anyway I know there is a lot of support out there as well, which was quite evident in the first few pages. People who do believe that we are working on things to improve LFS and that these things are not easy. For them and us, we are continuing to work on things that will make LFS a better driving experience.

Sorry about announcing things we were planning to do in the past, raising expectations and so on, either by our own fault or when things were announced beyond our control. It's a pity that difficult things can't always be done at high speed, so that previous announcements wouldn't be an issue.

Anyway, it's a new year and I'm back on those tyres trying to get it right and then into LFS, looking forward to some good results that make the cars feel good and stand up reasonably well to some scrutiny by our knowledgable community members.

I still have faith in LFS and in my view i do not really mind how long these updates take because untill then LFS will stay strong with Z28 and we wont stop playing on this wonderful game. i have seen a few servers start and a few servers end but all of them are strong in there own little way. LFS ftw best game on the pc(lfs is not on PS3 or 360 so i guess limited to pc)

I will chop my **** off if there is an update this year.

Quote from Scawen :

Anyway, it's a new year and I'm back on those tyres trying to get it right and then into LFS, looking forward to some good results that make the cars feel good and stand up reasonably well to some scrutiny by our knowledgeable community members.

If that is the case, some of you should be flattered, not disappointed. I am interpreting the paragraph as him saying he has such respect for the community, that to put out a mediocre product would be an insult to the end users.
And it would be.

Quote from Scawen :

It's quite strange that some people think we are hiding something, not telling the truth and so on. Our biggest mistake seems to have been, ever announcing anything we planned to work on or release. Because those are the things that are held against us most often.

Sorry about announcing things we were planning to do in the past, raising expectations and so on, either by our own fault or when things were announced beyond our control. It's a pity that difficult things can't always be done at high speed, so that previous announcements wouldn't be an issue.

Well the Scirocco and Rockingham were not announced by yourselves, they were found by people and then you came clean on the forum - you can probably see why people would think you are hiding something.

Quote from Mango Juice :

I will chop my **** off if there is an update this year.

If that's not an incentive for Scawen then I don't know what is!

Quote from Scawen :

Our biggest mistake seems to have been, ever announcing anything we planned to work on or release. Because those are the things that are held against us most often.

I doubt that things would have been any better on the forum without an anouncement or updates. Without some updates and information on the project I wouldn't be checking back here from time to time and my interest in LFS would dwindle.

It's also very interesting to read about the physics and what interests you in developing LFS also interests many members here.

I know you have a hard shell from years of reading this forum, but please be assured the're are plenty of us that are pleased to see you post.

Quote from boothy :

Well the Scirocco and Rockingham were not announced by yourselves, they were found by people and then you came clean on the forum - you can probably see why people would think you are hiding something.

I think Scawen was talking about these announced things:

Quote from Scawen :

the FZ updates are near complete and we are keen to get that released along with the FXO updates as soon as possible - but not in time for Patch Z which will look very much like today's test patch and should be released next week.

The remaining GTR updates are part of the needed updates for LFS S2 to lose the ALPHA tag. Some other updates that should mostly be done to get out of ALPHA are :

- Improve collision physics
- Break off wings instead of bending
- Finish and release Westhill updates
- Improve track shadow rendering
- RB4 / UF1 / UFR interiors

Quote from Scawen :

I keep wanting to post, but can't think of anything new to say. Our reasons for working the way we do are well documented, and understood by many people, some of who have posted on this thread.

It's quite strange that some people think we are hiding something, not telling the truth and so on. Our biggest mistake seems to have been, ever announcing anything we planned to work on or release. Because those are the things that are held against us most often.

I've tried to explain the complication of developing a tyre model but really you won't get it from my few words, you'd have to try yourself to see all the issues that come up.

Anyway I know there is a lot of support out there as well, which was quite evident in the first few pages. People who do believe that we are working on things to improve LFS and that these things are not easy. For them and us, we are continuing to work on things that will make LFS a better driving experience.

Sorry about announcing things we were planning to do in the past, raising expectations and so on, either by our own fault or when things were announced beyond our control. It's a pity that difficult things can't always be done at high speed, so that previous announcements wouldn't be an issue.

Anyway, it's a new year and I'm back on those tyres trying to get it right and then into LFS, looking forward to some good results that make the cars feel good and stand up reasonably well to some scrutiny by our knowledgable community members.

I can see where you are coming from, but why couldnt you release Westhill fix and buggy curb fix in the mean time? Something that lights up the days. Your post right there really just makes me even more *cant remember the word* but like "tired". You are pretty much saying you want to communicate less with us, not saying what you are expecting to release until you are able to release it. You are really then going in the wrong direction. (imo)

Releasing small patches while working on the tyre physics would been a better idea, even if it delayed the tire physics by 2 months. Then you would kept light in Live for Speed. I know you dont want to, but look at iRacing and how they communicate with their members. You guys have something to learn from them. LFS have a really good base, but if this is how its gonna be, then you wont be able to take advantage of that base you have. (and you will have less members to show the tire-physics to)

And to everyone who wants to tell me to bugger off to iRacing. That is exactly what I am doing when MoE is over.

Quote from Scawen :

same old

You've also said you wouldn't stand in the way of progress if other devs had new content to release, right? So, since really 99 % of this whining is about CONTENT and not tire physics, why isn't Eric releasing imaginary cars and tracks left and right? Without even breaking a sweat it could be 2 tracks and 3 cars every 6 months (this is taking into consideration the "complicated editors" you wrote for him). I mean really, people are importing models from 3ds max into LFS already, why not just let Eric work in something like 3ds max and write a plugin instead?

Give us content, tire physics is already better than anything else out there.

Quote from yeager :

iRacing, whilst expensive in comparison, is 10 years ahead of LFS.

bullsh!t of the year award. iRacing isnt ten years ahead of anyone. feature for feature LFS is miles ahead off iRipoff. Back up your opinion with some facts, lets see if it holds any weight.

Stop whining.. Like babies.. Getting tired of listening to all of your whines.. Mr. Scawen has ensured that they are working on new content very hard and will try to develop it as soon as possible...

Quote from seniecka :

Stop whining.. Like babies.. Getting tired of listening to all of your whines.. Mr. Scawen has ensured that they are working on new content very hard and will try to develop it as soon as possible...

I don't think that's the point here. The point is that most people do understand that creating / improving a tire model takes lots of research, time und brain.
What people don't understand on the other hand is why a physics update keeps the devs from releasing content updates such as the updated car interiors. The old ones look really dated and low res in comparison to the new ones. I really think that those should be finished by now.

Well thats not Scawen to ask, is it? Its Erics side of the sim and like Scawen has said, its his choice to release it. As to why he isnt, well....

The development progress of this simulation is slow. OK? Everybody knows that and always were.

But let think a bit different guys. LFS is still a very good sim, today. Even with such slow progress and years without something really new.
But why is so good sim? Why this old tyre mode we, the LFS racers, use is still so good?
Because of this: slow development progress...
And that doesnt mean that developers doesnt work on LFS but the little steps they do every time, and the steps they did in past were to the right direction.
Steps that did (and still do) having in mind the quality and no the quantity.
I dont think that this is gonna change in future but i believe that this is the reason why LFS is a very good and succeed simulator.

Also i think that whining doesnt help and maybe is worst for the next update.
I dont know how devs think but maybe -because of whining- they think somehow like :"Hey, we havent released something pretty cool for ages, lets make the community happy with a huge next release and not with small fixes etc".

Lets keep faith to devs that make this great sim and wait a little bit more

The development wasn't always slow. I remember when I bought S2, we had test patches every 2-3 months with exciting new content. (one of the reasons I bought LFS). You must understand that 2 years without anything new is getting a little, well, boring. We were used to get new content and comments from the devs very often. Nowadays Scawen comments once in a month to say that he's still working on tyre physics simulation. I just don't understand why they can't release for example the updated cockpits which were "almost done" in 2008.

But meh, we are going in circles...

The development speed is constant but the things that are developed are more and more difficutt. Tadaa.

Quote from jasonmatthews :

The patch 2 years ago, when it was announced, was a nice surprise (but needed even then). To get the GTR interiors plus westhill updates was nice. The Scirocco was a bonus. Then to hear it would be delayed a little for some physics updates was exciting. When we heard it involved Stability control systems was cool. Then we heard it needed tyre physics updates aswell. At first I thought this would hold the patch for the other things back by a few weeks. What happened next?

NOTHING.......

Why are the GTR interiors still not done? Why are the westhill updates not done?

Oh right, it was those tyre physics stopping it? NO.

Why are the bugs in the KY tracks not fixed? Ummmmm....

Tyre physics? ......

What happened to breakable wings?

Tyre physics? ......

Call me a whiner all you like, but I cannot fathom for 1 second why this Christmas, Scavier couldn't have released a patch like this...
-------------------------------
Hello LFS users,

We are glad to announce a new patch.

We are sorry we haven't been able to release the new car (scirocco), and S3 with the new track, but we have to take our time with the new tyre physics.

We would like to reassure you all we have been working hard on this and S3, but we have updated the GTR interiors and an update to Westhill. We have also fixed the kerb bugs in Kyoto so you should have a better experience in league racing.

We have also made breakable wings etc etc......

You can download the patch here - Download

We understand you would like to try the new tyre physics and we can assure you that so far our model is alot better than before, but we hope you understand that we need to get this right before releasing it.

In the meantime, we will release small updates to the community as test patches, until we are ready to release a big update which will include the new physics update.

Thank you for your support.

Flame on:bananadea

I hope you get banned for a year.

Quote from scipy :

You've also said you wouldn't stand in the way of progress if other devs had new content to release, right? So, since really 99 % of this whining is about CONTENT and not tire physics, why isn't Eric releasing imaginary cars and tracks left and right? Without even breaking a sweat it could be 2 tracks and 3 cars every 6 months (this is taking into consideration the "complicated editors" you wrote for him). I mean really, people are importing models from 3ds max into LFS already, why not just let Eric work in something like 3ds max and write a plugin instead?

Give us content, tire physics is already better than anything else out there.

^ this.

Quote from Flame CZE :

The development speed is constant but the things that are developed are more and more difficutt. Tadaa.

So Eric is actually creating tracks with bumps now?

Quote from three_jump :

I don't think that's the point here. The point is that most people do understand that creating / improving a tire model takes lots of research, time und brain.
What people don't understand on the other hand is why a physics update keeps the devs from releasing content updates such as the updated car interiors. The old ones look really dated and low res in comparison to the new ones. I really think that those should be finished by now.

That sums it up for me. I can understand tire physics taking long. What I don't understand is the little pieces of content that are taking forever. It should be two different categories like it has always been within LFS. Trying to pro-long it into one big release IMO isn't the greatest of ideas.

Quote from three_jump :

I don't think that's the point here. The point is that most people do understand that creating / improving a tire model takes lots of research, time und brain.
What people don't understand on the other hand is why a physics update keeps the devs from releasing content updates such as the updated car interiors. The old ones look really dated and low res in comparison to the new ones. I really think that those should be finished by now.

I have to agree here.

Quote from Scawen :

I keep wanting to post, but can't think of anything new to say. Our reasons for working the way we do are well documented, and understood by many people, some of who have posted on this thread.

It's quite strange that some people think we are hiding something, not telling the truth and so on. Our biggest mistake seems to have been, ever announcing anything we planned to work on or release. Because those are the things that are held against us most often.

I've tried to explain the complication of developing a tyre model but really you won't get it from my few words, you'd have to try yourself to see all the issues that come up.

Anyway I know there is a lot of support out there as well, which was quite evident in the first few pages. People who do believe that we are working on things to improve LFS and that these things are not easy. For them and us, we are continuing to work on things that will make LFS a better driving experience.

Sorry about announcing things we were planning to do in the past, raising expectations and so on, either by our own fault or when things were announced beyond our control. It's a pity that difficult things can't always be done at high speed, so that previous announcements wouldn't be an issue.

Anyway, it's a new year and I'm back on those tyres trying to get it right and then into LFS, looking forward to some good results that make the cars feel good and stand up reasonably well to some scrutiny by our knowledgable community members.

Sorry to be so hard but its still the same old - bla,bla,bla.
Reading such a comments from you make me loosing the faith...the last few pieces I still have...

Its the same one of my Account managers would say to customers when things not going so well. Just to make make them somehow pleased...

after following this thread i made a decision: being loyal to lfs for nearly ten years isn´t gonna help anymore...

@scaven - please give the community something to play with... even if it is just the vws with old physics or a random test patch to check anything...

in the meantime i go and do something else...

if you are kind and the next patch does something to lfs soon, i would be happy to come back and play lfs for the next decade. otherwise i just have to get over it and forget it like so many good things of the past.

so long happy forum campers...

peace, mo

Our point of view should be at least considered as an option to the future. I am not trying to act like a cock here, but only the fact that people are able to accept the truth and at least do something for it make them special.

There is seriously nothing which protects you from small updates as it used to be like. I simply think you've chosen bad politic. If Eric is working on this sim as well, there's nothing bad on releasing updated for example cockpits. Simple cockpit is the most used thing here, as we are driving in it, right? Why not to make it a little bit nicer?

I'm not sure if you get my point and I appreciate everything you do, however I just think you're wrong in this. Because this way, you kill the business.

Maybe it's time to tell us if you're working on LFS for your own pleasure or to make a nice game so it can sell more in the future days and maybe become a big reality.
Since people is questioning my point of view it would be nice if you could say the truth once for all.
Also, why are you not speaking about other updates too?
We can't ask Eric something since he replies like we asked about how much sex he has in a week.
Is it legit to ask you questions, in your opinion, Scawen?
I can believe you about the difficulty of the tyre model, i know it requires lots of study and investigations but i can't understand why other things have to stop in the meantime.
Bah, looks like you don't want to answer these questions and i can't still understand why if you think you're being honest with us.

Quote from jasonmatthews :

The patch 2 years ago, when it was announced, was a nice surprise (but needed even then). To get the GTR interiors plus westhill updates was nice. The Scirocco was a bonus. Then to hear it would be delayed a little for some physics updates was exciting. When we heard it involved Stability control systems was cool. Then we heard it needed tyre physics updates aswell. At first I thought this would hold the patch for the other things back by a few weeks. What happened next?

NOTHING.......

Why are the GTR interiors still not done? Why are the westhill updates not done?

Oh right, it was those tyre physics stopping it? NO.

Why are the bugs in the KY tracks not fixed? Ummmmm....

Tyre physics? ......

What happened to breakable wings?

Tyre physics? ......