Quote from CSF :

I'm hearing folk are losing faith on iracing due to a 12 week delay on the tyre physics. Such a shame the developers are treating people like that, I can't think of any kind of worse situation than a 12 week delay.

Quote from http://members.iracing.com/jforum/posts/list/1417821.page#3038749 :

Ever sense I heard the tire model had been delayed AGAIN I sort of lost a little faith. So much in fact that I haven't ran a single race this season sense early in the season. All I want is the so called new tire model we hear so much about. Too me iRacing just isn't fun anymore. It's just same thing every single season IMO, nothing new has really "spiced" it up and no new "great" features have came that I think should be here already.

Pretty funny I must say.

Quote from PMD9409 :

Pretty funny I must say.

Yup i agree, 12 weeks is nothing compared to 2/3 years lfs coummunity has been waiting on tyre physics.

Someone should tell them about LFS.

Quite a few know about it. There's a thread on there forum about it. The progression of LFS is what steers them away.

Wow, spoiled kids there.

They've listened to Queen(I love 'em though) for too long:

"I WANT IT ALL, AND I WANT IT NOW!"

xD

Its a shame. We were waiting for new tyre physics since early 2009 and we haven't lost our faith.
Or did we?

Best of Nations Slated for February 18. I'm glad to see some familiar names in the list.

It is related somehow to iRacing, so I decided to post it here.

Quote from Andreas Mikkelsen :

Driving the Fabia is fantastic but I’ve rallies it on BF Goodrich tyres but before I was driving the Fiesta on Hancock tyres and the feeling is very different. At the end the Hancocks were starting to get really good

Source

Quote from TexasLTU :

Its a shame. We were waiting for new tyre physics since early 2009 and we haven't lost our faith.
Or did we?

Most have. It's a simple matter of waiting too long without much to fall back on. I honestly don't think LFS can produce enough stuff to keep people's interest once something actually does come out. I would love to be proved wrong however, as I like LFS' feel of the cars by miles.

Quote from Töki (HUN) :

Best of Nations Slated for February 18. I'm glad to see some familiar names in the list.

If broadcasted, this is definately something you will want to watch.

Quote from PMD9409 :

Most have. It's a simple matter of waiting too long without much to fall back on. I honestly don't think LFS can produce enough stuff to keep people's interest once something actually does come out. I would love to be proved wrong however, as I like LFS' feel of the cars by miles.
If broadcasted, this is definately something you will want to watch.

I really hear what you're saying there.

I'd love to be proven wrong as well, as the overall feel of the cars is excellent - but the main thing I find is that the feeling of input having an effect is just too far dampened in LFS now for me to enjoy it. iRacing is a lot more knife edge, but with 80% the "correctability" of LFS, which is probably closer to the truth in my limited RL experience.

I like the connected organic feel of LFS' physical model but I find that under most circumstances iRacing is a little more believable in terms of consequence. Even having the Solstice snap into place after an intentional drift puts a smirk on my face after years of LFS' marshmellow brush model responses.

Based on what Scawen has said I know that's going to change, and based on what Kaemmer's stated I can't wait to try their physical model. I kind of thought the time would've come and gone, but here's to hoping for a 2011 comparison of both new models. Debating the old ones is becoming passe :P

Quote from Ball Bearing Turbo :

I like the connected organic feel of LFS' physical model but I find that under most circumstances iRacing is a little more believable in terms of consequence. Even having the Solstice snap into place after an intentional drift puts a smirk on my face after years of LFS' marshmellow brush model responses.

you just summed up exactly differences between the two sims modeling (both tyres and physics),as you said LFS feels more organic and a whole but iracing has that true to life snap effect and you can feel the weight of the car trying to take it the other way.

You should all watch the 2.4 Hours of Spa this saturday night, 10pm GMT. Going to be a good race, it has a full 40 strength field of Corvette GT1s and Radical SR8s, and I should be putting up a good fight in the SR8 class.

Will be broadcast on webracingnetwork.com .

hope you do well, i'll be watching so your doomed, be nice to see how the car looks

Quote from tinvek :

hope you do well, i'll be watching so your doomed, be nice to see how the car looks

Yeah, it's my first time in a broadcast race so I'l probably **** up, but I won the practice race comfortably and have been getting faster since then, so I should be in with a shot.

You'll be able to spot my car a mile away, it's bright blue and red with a massive Scotland flag on the bonnet .

Quote from Ball Bearing Turbo :

I like the connected organic feel of LFS' physical model but I find that under most circumstances iRacing is a little more believable in terms of consequence. Even having the Solstice snap into place after an intentional drift puts a smirk on my face after years of LFS' marshmellow brush model responses.

Same here to some degree. Some cars in iR respond to how I think they'd feel in real life, some cars don't at all. I still get the feeling of sometimes not being connected to the road at all. I only get that feeling in iR and rF. LFS and nkp I get a connected feeling nearly all the time. I guess that's the difference in fudge versus real though?

Don't forget the difference Force Feedback makes... In LfS and nK, the most effects you get are tyre forces, while rF and iRacing (over)emphasize bumps and undulations, which takes away much of the tyre "feel"...

http://vimeo.com/18968764

Quote from PMD9409 :

Same here to some degree. Some cars in iR respond to how I think they'd feel in real life, some cars don't at all. I still get the feeling of sometimes not being connected to the road at all. I only get that feeling in iR and rF. LFS and nkp I get a connected feeling nearly all the time. I guess that's the difference in fudge versus real though?

I don't know really... DK did mention this fact in the open house interviews. He made a note to mention how "connected" his w.i.p. model feels, so he obviously understands this concept well, and when he finally rolls that shit out the door I can't wait to try it.

I never feel disconnected in iR's Radical for example. Feeling connected, sadly, doesn't keep me on the track any better though Don't forget that up to the limit, the cars should be pretty much bang on since they do have the data for that. But there seems to be this unidentifiable, yet tangible and perceivable disparity between the two types of models.

Quote from bbman :

Don't forget the difference Force Feedback makes... In LfS and nK, the most effects you get are tyre forces, while rF and iRacing (over)emphasize bumps and undulations, which takes away much of the tyre "feel"...

There are no canned effects in iRacing, it's just that the track isn't made of glass for a change. And it also isn't faked like the goofy "bumps" at South City. It could just be the stupid setups / maybe caster, but in LFS all I find now is 90% self aligning torque with the odd other force if your wheel is dead centre.

The Solstice, for example in iRacing doesn't have a lot of feedback compared to the Skippy due to the power steering etc... What I'm really interested to see is how the upcoming physical tire model in iRacing plays with their force feedback, considering that it's already very good.

Quote from DeKo :

You'll be able to spot my car a mile away, it's bright blue and red with a massive Scotland flag on the bonnet .

i know, who do you think posted up the celtic logos for you mate

Quote from Ball Bearing Turbo :

I don't know really... DK did mention this fact in the open house interviews. He made a note to mention how "connected" his w.i.p. model feels, so he obviously understands this concept well, and when he finally rolls that shit out the door I can't wait to try it.

I never feel disconnected in iR's Radical for example. Feeling connected, sadly, doesn't keep me on the track any better though Don't forget that up to the limit, the cars should be pretty much bang on since they do have the data for that. But there seems to be this unidentifiable, yet tangible and perceivable disparity between the two types of models.

"When".

Yeah the radical has always felt good for me since the moment I tried that in beta, and I'm not sure but I don't think they have changed it since then. However cars like the DP which you have to pretty much slide to be fast, and then the Vette (on the edge) just feels like ice. I've enjoyed the Mustang and F1 car lately because I feel connected. It could be because each car has different tires, some fudged quite a bit and some not, and that generates many different ways to drive each car. While in LFS many cars have the same tire, which makes everything more "expected".

Quote :

There are no canned effects in iRacing, it's just that the track isn't made of glass for a change. And it also isn't faked like the goofy "bumps" at South City. It could just be the stupid setups / maybe caster, but in LFS all I find now is 90% self aligning torque with the odd other force if your wheel is dead centre.

The Solstice, for example in iRacing doesn't have a lot of feedback compared to the Skippy due to the power steering etc... What I'm really interested to see is how the upcoming physical tire model in iRacing plays with their force feedback, considering that it's already very good.

Stupid setups go with both LFS and iRacing btw. But I'm also very curious to know what will happen with the force feedback.

Quote from Ball Bearing Turbo :

There are no canned effects in iRacing, it's just that the track isn't made of glass for a change.

Show me where I said "canned" even once in my post?

Quote from bbman :

Show me where I said "canned" even once in my post?

ok:

Quote :

In LfS and nK, the most effects you get are tyre forces, while rF and iRacing (over)emphasize bumps and undulations, which takes away much of the tyre "feel"

This clearly insinuates that the forces in iRacing are modified beyond their basic generation based on force and geometry.

& Phil, yes you're right of course stupid setups are in both sims. I don't run ovals but I hear they're especially silly on that side of things, though clearly the road setups have issues as well.

Quote from Ball Bearing Turbo :

ok:



This clearly insinuates that the forces in iRacing are modified beyond their basic generation based on force and geometry.

& Phil, yes you're right of course stupid setups are in both sims. I don't run ovals but I hear they're especially silly on that side of things, though clearly the road setups have issues as well.

It could just as easily insinuate that a) the track scanning data is exaggerated to produce a rougher surface, or b) the physics model itself is too susceptible to track undulations vs. real life.

Quote from DeadWolfBones :

It could just as easily insinuate that a) the track scanning data is exaggerated to produce a rougher surface, or b) the physics model itself is too susceptible to track undulations vs. real life.

I suppose in theory you're right, though a) is not the case based on everything they've ever said about the tracks, and that would still classify as an intentional modification anyway, thus a canned effect at least to me. b) is pretty hard to screw up since it's pretty basic rigid body mechanics.

It could still have to do with the tire model though, which is why I'm very curious to see what effect, if any, the upcoming model has on the FFB in iR

In unmodified form, things you feel through the steering are:
LfS is all mechanical SAT, with just the odd bump thrown in the mix.
nK delivers pneumatic SAT, mechanical SAT, and you also get a pretty good understanding of what's under the tyres. From what I drove spot on in regards to FF.
rF is bumps, canned effects (there, I said it) and some more weird stuff they try to sell as tyres.
iRacing is bumps, bumps, then some more bumps, and way back in the distance there might be some tyre forces. It's like a whisper in a storm - if you concentrate hard enough, you might hear it...

What I'm saying is: I doubt that having my wheel almost pulled out of my hands on the LRP front straight is even close to right. In relation, the most pronounced thing you should feel through the steering is in fact SAT (both mechanic and pneumatic). My old car was without power steering, and I never felt bumps even close as hard as SAT was... In fact, most bumps I felt in my hands (not talking about buttocks) only because the SAT changed... Something is just iffy, right now it's the suspension coming through the wheel rather than the tyres... If the new tyre model changes that, wonderful... I'm not expecting that radical of a change though...