Quote from Eric :

It's getting really boring reading these complaints about why new LFS content isn't released at a rate which suits you. I'm not sure what these posters think they can accomplish, but they'd have to be complete idiots to not realise that they won't change a thing. It's madness to keep doing the same things over and over again and expect a different result everytime.

I really dont feel the need to justify the way or even the pace at which I work to anyone. The conditions I have to work in and the tools I have to work with affect only me, so I will deal with things my own way. I would say I'm sorry if you don't like it, but the truth is I'm not sorry. I am my own boss. I don't answer to anyone. Get over it.

If you don't like LFS or the speed of it's development....or even the fact that we are entitled to live a life outside of LFS, you have the free will to leave and play something else.

If you prefer to stick around and moan endlessly about things you can't change or encourage some kind of weird witch hunt against your least favourite Dev,......maybe you need to check your mental health or get a life. LFS can't help you with that, no matter how good it gets.

So this is what he think about us!
Lets start to getting quiet like they did. so if they dont get any response from us (the community) mabye something will change?

SO all of you and myself, silence now !

It would be a good scenario if Scawen would say.. Well..

Give me a couple of more weeks...

Lets say eight...

And if I fail to get it right we are going to concentrate on content.

But no, we have to wait on a tyre physic update which nobody, even the developer(s), don't know of when it's actually readyready.

Quote from Be2K :

So this is what he think about us!

Well, you lot really have been asking for it. An endless stream of complaints from people that simply do not understand LFS. He's right, they're wasting their time.

Quote from Intrepid :

Well, you lot really have been asking for it. An endless stream of complaints from people that simply do not understand LFS. He's right, they're wasting their time.

There is cleary a difference between questioning the development and whining. If he, and you say that everyone that wonders when new content is out are idiots... well, then I will return the favour saying the same to both of you.

None offence meant by this, but as long as the feedback is kept constructive it really should not be a difference if it's good or bad. When working with custommers you should you know you canot please everyone, and ignoring the most whiny ones is a natural thing to do, but negative feedback can be used to learn / improve both the product and the feedback given from the custommers.

At the same time we must not call people fanboys just because they support the game.

So, blinded fanboys / whiners = BAD
Qustionable custommers / happy custommers = GOOD

Quote from The Very End :

None offence meant by this, but as long as the feedback is kept constructive it really should not be a difference if it's good or bad. When working with custommers you should you know you canot please everyone, and ignoring the most whiny ones is a natural thing to do, but negative feedback can be used to learn / improve both the product and the feedback given from the custommers.

If you're in a business to maximise profits then you will invest vast quantities of cash into that line of research and development. However, from what I can observe from the developers, this isn't how they want to develop LFS. It's, I speculate, a massively personal project for them, and something which I think it's hugely worthwhile and valuable. Not everyone wants to work under the constraints of 'proper customer care'. If you're into that line of working then fine, if your not, even better. Everyone is different.

While I imagine it's frustrating being a massive fan of LFS and having to wait so long for developments, it serves no real productive purpose moaning or offering 'constructive criticism'.

Criticism is only constructive when you have two consenting parties. In this case the developers aren't finding it constructive as they are not asking for criticism... it's just plain ol' criticism whichever way you look at it.

Of course talking, questioning how the developers create the sim is a natural consequence of online forums like this, but the amount of absolute pointless nonsense posted about how the devs should do this or should do that, all in the name of constructive criticism, isn't productive.

There are good points in your post, and on some aspects I agree on.
However I think feedback is something that should, and will happen in every project that involves custommers

As you say I don't think Scavier really does care much for what other might think of them, and there are both good and bad things about that dessision.

However there is one point that bugs me about Erics post. It's actually the lack of respect for other people. He is taking everyone under the same ..what's the name for it..well anyway, it's easy to get the feeling: "if you like the product, that's ok, if you don't like it you can **** off".

That's what anoys me the most. Sure, I am a little whiny whore, but I still play the game. The devs should do what they seem fit, but please don't judge some people stupid post as the mayority of the people around. Respect goes both ways.

Quote from Amynue :

http://www.lfs.net/page_images/content_images/content_s3.gif

HTTP header:
Last-Modified: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 20:54:49 GMT

Quote from The Very End :

However I think feedback is something that should, and will happen in every project that involves custommers

Feedback and criticism are two different things. The LFS team have had a barrage of unjustified criticism. They supply a product for £24 or whatever it costs. It's unbelievable value. But your buying a licence to access LFS's content, not a licence to publicly criticise the development team on a regular basis. I know your not one of the main moaners, my comments are based at the group on this forum that think it's helpful to moan.

OK, if LFS didn't work, and the content was sub-par, and you felt you didn't get your money's worth, then for sure, complain or whatever. But LFS is amazing value.

The nature of sims in general means communities often ask for more and more and more and more updates. If you were spending hundreds a year, like with iRacing, then yes you would expect this service, but £24 for LFS? come on!!!! It's a bargain!

Quote from Intrepid :

Feedback and criticism are two different things. The LFS team have had a barrage of unjustified criticism. They supply a product for £24 or whatever it costs. It's unbelievable value. But your buying a licence to access LFS's content, not a licence to publicly criticise the development team on a regular basis. I know your not one of the main moaners, my comments are based at the group on this forum that think it's helpful to moan.

OK, if LFS didn't work, and the content was sub-par, and you felt you didn't get your money's worth, then for sure, complain or whatever. But LFS is amazing value.

The nature of sims in general means communities often ask for more and more and more and more updates. If you were spending hundreds a year, like with iRacing, then yes you would expect this service, but £24 for LFS? come on!!!! It's a bargain!

QFT.

Quote from Intrepid :

Feedback and criticism are two different things. The LFS team have had a barrage of unjustified criticism. They supply a product for £24 or whatever it costs. It's unbelievable value. But your buying a licence to access LFS's content, not a licence to publicly criticise the development team on a regular basis. I know your not one of the main moaners, my comments are based at the group on this forum that think it's helpful to moan.

OK, if LFS didn't work, and the content was sub-par, and you felt you didn't get your money's worth, then for sure, complain or whatever. But LFS is amazing value.

The nature of sims in general means communities often ask for more and more and more and more updates. If you were spending hundreds a year, like with iRacing, then yes you would expect this service, but £24 for LFS? come on!!!! It's a bargain!

You may have a point, but you´re clearly forgetting what made LFS so sucessful and such an "amazing value" - online racing. And that part of LFS is provided by the LFS costumers and not the Devs. It´s this community of players that pays, and provides the servers, that organizes leagues and events for everyone to race on. Take this from LFS and you´re left with a singleplayer racing game, with good physics, but outdated graphics and sound, not much content (mainly tracks) and poor AI, that can´t provide any enjoyable racing. So, that theory that the devs don´t have to listen to anyone, or care about what the community thinks, is completely flawed when it cames to LFS.

Quote from chunkyracer :

You may have a point, but you´re clearly forgetting what made LFS so sucessful and such an "amazing value" - online racing. And that part of LFS is provided by the LFS costumers and not the Devs. It´s this community of players that pays, and provides the servers, that organizes leagues and events for everyone to race on. Take this from LFS and you´re left with a singleplayer racing game, with good physics, but outdated graphics and sound, not much content (mainly tracks) and poor AI, that can´t provide any enjoyable racing. So, that theory that the devs don´t have to listen to anyone, or care about what the community thinks, is completely flawed when it cames to LFS.

I am repeating my self again and again and this will probably be my last comment on the subject. People keep on attaching their own expectations of what LFS should be, and then measuring it's success against that. This is fruitless task because everyone's expectations differ.

The only expectations that matter are that of the developers. Maybe I'm wrong, (I appear to be speaking for the developers here, when of course I am not) but I am sure they are immensely proud of the community and it's success. Obviously LFS has done something very right to attract such a large following, but to suggest that the developers have to now realign their motivations just because the community demands it appears to show a misunderstanding of how the LFS developers work.

For me, Scawan can take as long as he wants. He's doing something he truly loves, has a passion for, and in a way he wants. I think everyone would love to be able to live their life like that. And if I can benefit from the devs hard work down the line, brilliant!

Quote from rockclan :

You're not sure about that yet.

2 years it took for the real vws,2006 was started and in production 2008

Quote from bishtop :

2 years it took for the real vws,2006 was started and in production 2008

If you believe that VW took only 2 years from design to first car sold
you will believe anything

while we all continue to wait (some more patiently than others) for the next chapter in the ongoing story of LFS, its almost amusing to read some of the negative posts, and to think all this frustration and anger over a game, a virtual simulator, there must be more important or fun things to do that to come here and make an ass of yourself with a post as dull as "release this shit or I will" lol

Chunkyracers post about part of LFS being the users, customers or the comunity is onto a point however how can it be the devs responsibilty or fault that a large part of that comunity have chosen to go elsewhere for their online fix, we as a comunity have the power to change that, theres still good online racing/drifting/cruising to be had while Scawen and co work at whatever pace they choose.
And who cares if Eric hasn't posted anything its not a requirement of any developers to share anything with us unless thay want to, and the way the crowd is around here I don't blame him.


Excuse the waffling

SD.

Quote from SparkyDave :

while we all continue to wait (some more patiently than others) for the next chapter in the ongoing story of LFS, its almost amusing to read some of the negative posts, and to think all this frustration and anger over a game, a virtual simulator, there must be more important or fun things to do that to come here and make an ass of yourself with a post as dull as "release this shit or I will" lol

Hey Scawen!!! Release this sh*t or I'll... or I'll... or I'll have to keep on waiting.

a bit of a tweak to an Ace Ventura quote "if it's not ready in 5 minutes....wait longerrrrr"

Hey Scawen if you're still reading (wouldn't blame you if you're not): Are you actually enjoying the tyre research/development still or is it frustrating you now? It's a long time to be working on one project, I don't know if I'd have the patience for it.

Either way kudos for going to such lengths to sort it out.

Scaven, just sell this project - may be another peoples will work faster. LFS - a great project, and will be very sorry if he dies...

Quote from Intrepid :

Feedback and criticism are two different things. The LFS team have had a barrage of unjustified criticism. They supply a product for £24 or whatever it costs. It's unbelievable value. But your buying a licence to access LFS's content, not a licence to publicly criticise the development team on a regular basis. I know your not one of the main moaners, my comments are based at the group on this forum that think it's helpful to moan.

OK, if LFS didn't work, and the content was sub-par, and you felt you didn't get your money's worth, then for sure, complain or whatever. But LFS is amazing value.

The nature of sims in general means communities often ask for more and more and more and more updates. If you were spending hundreds a year, like with iRacing, then yes you would expect this service, but £24 for LFS? come on!!!! It's a bargain!
-----------
I am repeating my self again and again and this will probably be my last comment on the subject. People keep on attaching their own expectations of what LFS should be, and then measuring it's success against that. This is fruitless task because everyone's expectations differ.

The only expectations that matter are that of the developers. Maybe I'm wrong, (I appear to be speaking for the developers here, when of course I am not) but I am sure they are immensely proud of the community and it's success. Obviously LFS has done something very right to attract such a large following, but to suggest that the developers have to now realign their motivations just because the community demands it appears to show a misunderstanding of how the LFS developers work.

For me, Scawan can take as long as he wants. He's doing something he truly loves, has a passion for, and in a way he wants. I think everyone would love to be able to live their life like that. And if I can benefit from the devs hard work down the line, brilliant!

100% agree - that's exactly the point...

Quote :

Originally Posted by Eric
It's getting really boring reading these complaints about why new LFS content isn't released at a rate which suits you. I'm not sure what these posters think they can accomplish, but they'd have to be complete idiots to not realise that they won't change a thing. It's madness to keep doing the same things over and over again and expect a different result everytime.

I really dont feel the need to justify the way or even the pace at which I work to anyone. The conditions I have to work in and the tools I have to work with affect only me, so I will deal with things my own way. I would say I'm sorry if you don't like it, but the truth is I'm not sorry. I am my own boss. I don't answer to anyone. Get over it.

If you don't like LFS or the speed of it's development....or even the fact that we are entitled to live a life outside of LFS, you have the free will to leave and play something else.

If you prefer to stick around and moan endlessly about things you can't change or encourage some kind of weird witch hunt against your least favourite Dev,......maybe you need to check your mental health or get a life. LFS can't help you with that, no matter how good it gets.

This is the most ignorant post from developer towards the comunity I ever saw. What a real shame he puts everyone into same bin. It seems he dont understand that people who asking about updates, feedback are people who really care about LFS.

Its a shame some people here back in their post call someone who ask for something or make some critism as moaner. Wake up people. This was nice comunity. Please dont offend each other.

All the latest post from devs to me seems. "we dont care what you think about LFS". This is wrong in anyway. Respect goes both ways.

Quote :

Volkswagen Scirocco Mk3 (expected in 2011) (VWS)

Now aint that naiz?

Quote from rockclan :

[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Scirocco"]

Now aint that naiz?

VW officially announced in June 2006 production of a new Scirocco model at the [URL="http://www.lfsforum.net/wiki/AutoEuropa"]AutoEuropa[/URL] assembly plant in [URL="http://www.lfsforum.net/wiki/Palmela"]Palmela[/URL], Portugal.[URL="http://www.lfsforum.net/#cite_note-announcement-4"][5][/URL]
The new model, given the internal designation Typ 13, is based on the [URL="http://www.lfsforum.net/wiki/Volkswagen_Group_A_platform#A5_.28PQ35.29"]PQ35 platform[/URL] of the [URL="http://www.lfsforum.net/wiki/Volkswagen_Golf_Mk5"]Golf V[/URL] and was unveiled at the 2008 [URL="http://www.lfsforum.net/wiki/Geneva_Motor_Show"]Geneva Motor Show[/URL]. It went on sale in summer 2008 in Europe, with sales in other countries beginning early 2009. The German model had a price of €21,750.[URL="http://www.lfsforum.net/#cite_note-5"][6][/URL]
wikipedia

Trivia: James May composed a song about the Scirocco.

Quote from Senninha25 :

Trivia: James May composed a song about the Scirocco.

The volkswagen scirocco, takes you to Morrocco...

It was a cool song haha

Quote from DEVIL 007 :

This is the most ignorant post from developer towards the comunity I ever saw. What a real shame he puts everyone into same bin. It seems he dont understand that people who asking about updates, feedback are people who really care about LFS.

Its a shame some people here back in their post call someone who ask for something or make some critism as moaner. Wake up people. This was nice comunity. Please dont offend each other.

All the latest post from devs to me seems. "we dont care what you think about LFS". This is wrong in anyway. Respect goes both ways.

must admit i was real surprised to see this post by eric, whilst i can understand his frustration at some of the posts on this and other forums and i agree with intrepid's views, it does seem to be rather self destructive for a dev of a game to say if you don't like the delays go away, maybe he should just think how many S3 licences they would sell if by the time it's released the only people still playing are the demo users.

as devil says it's not on to lump everyone together like that, i've supported the devs and the time it takes to come out with something as complicated as a new tyre model (look how long its taking dave at iracing to do the same thing) and have always intended to buy S3 as soon as it comes out but now i'm not so sure, if eric's post is a true guide as to how the devs feel about their customers then i don't particularly feel any urge to give them any more business.

hopefully future posts will prove my past feelings about the devs were correct but only time will show