Stating that the entire hip hop culture can be narrowed down to people wearing their baseball caps backwards is a clue you are not fit for adult discussion.

Stating that "Rap = Beat and a guy talkin faster than the average man" leads me to conclude that you don't think poetry with music is art, because it also is someone talking without melody with music. There's great poetry, there's terrible poetry and everybody has different opinions about which is which. Same thing goes for hip hop.

Just say you're ignorant to the whole subject because you don't like it so we can accept that and move on.

Quote from BlueFlame :

Yes, see, a music that has an IDEOLOGY?!?!? This is not music it's a "I WANT TO BE COOL AND FIT IN WITH EVERYBODY ELSE" genre of BS.

Rap = Beat and a guy talkin faster than the average man. PLEASE tell me how that is music? There's no melodic quality, there's rarely anything comprehendable unless you put your baseball cap on in reverse.

Wolfgang, Johan and Pyotr went to the trouble of composing complex pieces of music for the people to follow to make RAP. ARE YOU SERIOUS? It's a waste of electricity.

Do me a favour and watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xaIVGO-wCk8

I don't expect you to get it tho.

+1 for Sams post.

EDIT: Is this music in your eyes BlueFlame? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AnyqVRijCNw
Produced by one of the greatest beat makers that ever lived, including one of the greatest MC's. That's some hip hop for you right there.

And here's one more regarding your statement that hip hop isn't music... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qm7Xt2Qsjcg
A band playing instruments... now come again please?

Quote from thisnameistaken :

My favourite thing at the moment is switching on my old-school Boss OC-2 pedal which makes a sort-of bassline square wave sound, it reminds me of Wayne Smith's Casio bass sound on the original Sleng Teng tune. I'm always finding excuses to make sounds like that these days.

I like to mess it up with sample rate reducers to get a ring modulator sound, or add tremolo or LFO-controlled filter to make it more electronic, you can have a lot of fun with bass sounds if you've already made sure the bottom end is solid.

But we do still try to play some rootsy stuff. Our next EP will have a live acoustic song on it, with acoustic guitar and drums, double bass and melodica, and three vocals in the style of The Paragons or The Maytals, we are aiming for a garden party rocksteady sound with it.

I should say we are not nearly as good as The Paragons or The Maytals! We are from Yorkshire, not Jamaica, but we play with respect to your musical geniuses, they are still legendary in the UK.

Haha Awesome man!

Quote from jibber :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AnyqVRijCNw
Produced by one of the greatest beat makers that ever lived, including one of the greatest MC's. That's some hip hop for you right there.

Sounds more like R&B to me.

Jibber I didn't say hip hop wasn't music, I said rap wasn't.


Music requires melody. If you are listening to music for the lyrics, it isn't music but then again, I doubt anybody hear listens to classical music, because that's not what potsmokers do, they listen to rap.

Quote from BlueFlame :

Music requires melody.

No it doesn't. Look up the definition of music in all dictionaries. Nowhere does it require melody. Just as painted art does not require color.
Merriam-Webster: "The science or art of ordering tones or sounds in succession, in combination, and in temporal relationships to produce a composition having unity and continuity"

Quote from BlueFlame :

If you are listening to music for the lyrics, it isn't music

Really? Ever thought of the fact those people would not appreciate the song if it were only lyrics? The lyrics of a song is just like the composition of a painting; for some it is irrelevant and look for other qualities, for others it makes all the difference.

Quote from BlueFlame :

I doubt anybody hear listens to classical music, because that's not what potsmokers do, they listen to rap.

Oh wow, you listen to classical music? I bow down to your superior music taste which clearly is a testament of your intelligence. Oh wait, I meant arrogance.

If you truly want to appreciate music in all its glory, I suggest jamming a crowbar in that narrow gap between your ears, and broaden your mind a bit.

Classical > All, if you don't like classical, you don't deserve to have ears.

Does music from Hanz Zimmer count?

Quote from The Very End :

Does music from Hanz Zimmer count?

Well he is awesome, I'd like to suggest yes.

Its all sound, if you like the sound, thats nice. If you don't like the sound, thats a shame. People get too obsessed with whatever meanings they think the sound conveys, and the way in which it is conveyed, rap is still sound conveying a message and IMO that makes it as much a form of music as anything.

Quote from 5haz :

Its all sound, if you like the sound, thats nice. If you don't like the sound, thats a shame. People get too obsessed with whatever meanings they think the sound conveys.

Which is why rap is retarded. Music shouldn't have an 'alternate meaning' or be a riddle with a beat behind it, it should be what it is. Music.

Quote from BlueFlame :

Which is why rap is retarded. Music shouldn't have an 'alternate meaning' or be a riddle with a beat behind it, it should be what it is. Music.

Quote from BlueFlame :

Classical > All, if you don't like classical, you don't deserve to have ears.

When I play music at home, I usually play my double bass. And I do have a book of Chopin's 'cello suites that I like to play with the bow. My favourite double bassist though is the bop jazz legend Charles Mingus - you might easily compare this to hip-hop. It is harmonically very challenging and quite unique, but it is obviously hip-hop as much as it is hard bop. You cannot challenge the musicality of these musicians - there have never been contemporary musicians with the talent and dedication of the guys who played for people like Mingus and Coltrane and Miles Davis, it requires a dedication at least equal to that of classical music.

Regarding rap music and its musicality and lyrical content, it rarely meets the high standards set by the bop jazzers (although The Roots could play that stuff - Hub was a classically-trained player, he could smoke anybody) but literally no modern music reaches those heights. None. It's worth noting that this was protest music at the time, it was art, and it was an American negro art form. There was nothing like it before and there has been nothing like it since. Except hip hop.

This is hip hop.

This is hip hop.

This is hip hop.

This is hip hop.

Right. No music in it. Those tunes never touched any hearts. No skill went into those, no years of dedication by talented musicians :rolleyes:

If you listen in a particular way, you can pick out the melody in a rap performance. Heck, there's even melody in this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjfbS_Kj-J0&feature=fvst

(a quick rap search on youtube)

I'm not saying it's a good song or anything, but melody is there- it's just in an unusual form that differs from people's normalised associations about melody. What is there is strange melody- and hearing something strange is a hard task.

Quote from thisnameistaken :

Regarding rap music and its musicality and lyrical content, it rarely meets the high standards set by the bop jazzers (although The Roots could play that stuff - Hub was a classically-trained player, he could smoke anybody) but literally no modern music reaches those heights. None. It's worth noting that this was protest music at the time, it was art, and it was an American negro art form. There was nothing like it before and there has been nothing like it since. Except hip hop.

When you put it like that, I am turned towards accepting it for what it is.

Quote from BlueFlame :

When you put it like that, I am turned towards accepting it for what it is.

Tbh, the only rap albums I've ever bought were when I was really young and into actual rap dancing with my friends. I do think though the charge of rap being crap comes mostly from exposure to the kind of stuff which is designed specifically to shift units. Commercial rap and hiphop is mostly toilet paper music, imo. But it's impossible to slog off a whole genre like that. Melbourne has a great hip hop scene- and there are rappers within that scene who just blow me away every time I get to hear them. And it's mostly entirely 'musical', with real instruments and a real enthusiasm for all kinds of different music from all over the world, getting reset into a hiphop context. That's what's great about hip-hop... those guys will just take stuff from anywhere.

Quote from BlueFlame :

Classical > All, if you don't like classical, you don't deserve to have ears.

Ok, and then saying that Hans Zimmer is classical.. Auch. I don't like putting music into boxes and labelling them, but calling Hans Zimmer classical (thus comparing it to Beethoven or whatever) isn't really going to work. Mind you, I like his music.. Sort of.. But it's just music for film. And from that perspective, yeah it works, it's nice and it works, but it's a totally different craft.

Most kinds of music have their own way of being good, original, creative pieces of craftsmanship. But music can be defined in a lot of ways. Music can be anything that involves sound (or the lack of it; silence is a musical note as well) that is structured or organised and has to purpose to make you listen. Personally I like music that is original or well crafted, so yea, that involves a wide variety of music, but it also excludes quite a lot. :P

Quote from Darkone55 :

Ok, and then saying that Hans Zimmer is classical.. Auch. I don't like putting music into boxes and labelling them, but calling Hans Zimmer classical (thus comparing it to Beethoven or whatever) isn't really going to work. Mind you, I like his music.. Sort of.. But it's just music for film. And from that perspective, yeah it works, it's nice and it works, but it's a totally different craft.

Most kinds of music have their own way of being good, original, creative pieces of craftsmanship. But music can be defined in a lot of ways. Music can be anything that involves sound (or the lack of it; silence is a musical note as well) that is structured or organised and has to purpose to make you listen. Personally I like music that is original or well crafted, so yea, that involves a wide variety of music, but it also excludes quite a lot. :P

Lol, I said I was INCLINED to accept it to classical, butt hurt much?

i play one of these.

I have a trombone (an old Boosey & Hawkes student model) but I don't practise it regularly. My band's trombonist recently left though and we're recording at the moment, so I am eager to attempt recording the trombone parts myself. Our trumpet player doesn't look too enthusiastic about it though.

i love the trombone, it's such a unique, all-round instrument. it could be a solo instrument, or background ambiance. it can play smooth and harmoniously, or it could play bitter and mean; and it's slide allows for cool tricks and entertaining performances. why doesn't everyone play trombone?

I played for 5 years an instrument called baritone.
Yeah.. I were that fat kid that had to use the big instrument (alltho it were not as big as the basses and such).

Quote from The Very End :

I played for 5 years an instrument called baritone.

the mini tubas, right? those guys sound "sweeter" than trombones. better solo instruments.

Quote from Xobeohs :

why doesn't everyone play trombone?

I know, right?


I played Eb Tenor horn in my local citizens band for a few years. But I lusted after the timpani.