I see what people mean about bikers in general, moving over and giving them some room is a courteous thing to do, but its the ones who decide to bomb along the outside of massively long queues of traffic during rush hour and fully believe that just because they are on a motorised crotch rocket, they automatically have the god given right to barge their way down the middle of the road and overtake everyone like they have some kind of priority, plus riding practically along the centre line with traffic coming towards you aint exactly safe on some roads.
I see this kind of behaviour quite frequently on my drive to work in the mornings, and to be brutally honest, if they end up getting clipped and knocked off by an oncoming vehicle because their handlebars are overhanging into the other lane then i really dont have any sympathy for them, i wouldnt want to see them badly or injured and i wouldnt want them to die obviously, but they would simply have nobody to blame but themselves.
But whats the betting that the 'wreckless car driver' would still have the finger pointed at them when it comes to laying blame in an incident such as that.
I dont dislike bikers, i used to be one, well, i had mopeds, not really the same, but still, i dont have any problem with them in general, but just because you are sat astride something which can do about a gazillion miles an hour and which in some lower speed situations is somewhat controlled by little more than balance, it dont make them road royalty, its their choice to sit on a hunk of metal with nothing but a skid lid and some cows skin for protection then thats down to them, they know the risks involved and what could potentially happen if a car hits them.
I will always be courteous and polite to bikers if i can do, but being a biker doesnt give you some kind of free road pass and that us mere car drivers should therefore dive for the verge just because a bike following might want to come past when there isnt really room to do so safely.
I see this kind of behaviour quite frequently on my drive to work in the mornings, and to be brutally honest, if they end up getting clipped and knocked off by an oncoming vehicle because their handlebars are overhanging into the other lane then i really dont have any sympathy for them, i wouldnt want to see them badly or injured and i wouldnt want them to die obviously, but they would simply have nobody to blame but themselves.
But whats the betting that the 'wreckless car driver' would still have the finger pointed at them when it comes to laying blame in an incident such as that.
I dont dislike bikers, i used to be one, well, i had mopeds, not really the same, but still, i dont have any problem with them in general, but just because you are sat astride something which can do about a gazillion miles an hour and which in some lower speed situations is somewhat controlled by little more than balance, it dont make them road royalty, its their choice to sit on a hunk of metal with nothing but a skid lid and some cows skin for protection then thats down to them, they know the risks involved and what could potentially happen if a car hits them.
I will always be courteous and polite to bikers if i can do, but being a biker doesnt give you some kind of free road pass and that us mere car drivers should therefore dive for the verge just because a bike following might want to come past when there isnt really room to do so safely.
I know, I never got that either, people sit right underneath a trucks trailer bar, he reverses that bar is goin right in your face and the 40tonne (if full) trailer is gonna end up over your head, but people don't seem to want to think ahead of the present, seems difficult for them.
It really pisses me off when cars sit right under a trucks right hand side under the mirror, etc, or when they don't seem to realise european trucks have a huge blindspot, I remember being in the passenger seat of my ex girlfriends clio a good few year ago, a German trucker had a tough roundabout to navigate, as the road leading on to the roundabout was pointing WAY to the left, almost inline with the first exit, even in a right hand drive car you struggle to seee anything coming for a huge blind spot, so god only knows what this euro truck driver saw IF anything, all he could do was edge out incrementally, but my GF at the time decided to blow her horn and give a shit load of abuse. To which I attempted to put her straight (she wasn't a good listener LOL).
Infact, with said girlfriend we had a running argument that cars do/don't have a blind spot, she said, you have to shoulder check your blind spot, and I said, it's not a blind spot if you can look at it (it's a mirror blind spot, but not a blind spot outright) but this seemed not to compute in her brain.
Are you saying that there's nothing behind or to either side that you cannot see either without moving your head, or in the mirrors?
No, I'm saying there's nothing you can't see with the mirrors. Anything you can't see with the mirrors you can shoulder check, though I think shoulder checking is a major hazard. The only 'blind spots' outright in a car, would be low enough right along side you, underneath, or directly infront or behind the car low to the ground, oh and of course above the car :P that's a pretty big blind spot but they don't really matter when using the road. Except maybe for parking.
So basically you had an argument because your definition of "blind spot" differs slightly from the usual "check your blindspot" definition of "blind spot"
It would be a mirror blind spot, not an outright blindspot, if you can turn your head and see the blindspot, it ain't a blindspot is it. A blindspot would be something you can't physically see no matter what you do.
.example : a euro truck, under the right hand side door is a blind spot, the driver cannot see with standard mirrors, or by moving his head. That's why they have the vertical mirrors that point down from the passenger door. If that's a blindspot, then by definition when you are shoulder checking, you are not checking a blindspot, because you can physically see the 'blind' spot and you don't need an extra mirror to do so.
Not saying you're wrong, but what you say you are checking in your shoulder check is quite commonly known as the blindspot.
Yea I'm aware of it, that's how the argument started, I said, they CALL it a blindspot, but really it isn't. But you know women, once they got told something once it never can be changed :P
They are physical blind spots in my van. No matter how much shoulder checking I do, without opening the window and sticking my head out, but that only works on the drivers side, I am buggered down the left side.
And even with a shoulder check a vehicle could still be hidden due to the fact that you need metal supports to keep the roof on.
And even with a shoulder check a vehicle could still be hidden due to the fact that you need metal supports to keep the roof on.
This is excatly why shoulder checking in a car is not checking a blind spot, because you can physically see it lol Metal supports don't stop you from tilting your head backwards and forwards though
Very true, for a large enough vehicle that could work, but something bike/pedestrian sized, tough luck. I've had a guy try and back me out before but he stood in a perfect blind spot (this was in a 96 Omega Saloon). Nothing I did from the drivers seat allowed me to see him. I had to get out and ask him to move.
Blind spot
Your mirrors should be adjusted to eliminate as many blind spots as possible. This is why when everyone talks about the side mirrors in LFS and how it is wrong that you can't see the car in the side mirrors, they are talking nonsense. You should not be able to see your car in the side mirrors because what you would see behind you with them adjusted that way, you already see in the rear-view mirror. Side mirrors should be adjusted to see what is between the view in your center mirror and what you see by glancing out the side window.
Again, the blind spots are what you can't see when sitting in a driving position looking forward, not twisting around looking backwards, not leaning forwards and to the side to see around the a-pillar, what you see when sitting in a driving position looking forwards, glancing in your mirrors, and glancing to the side. Don't be playing Twister while in the car trying to drive.
Your mirrors should be adjusted to eliminate as many blind spots as possible. This is why when everyone talks about the side mirrors in LFS and how it is wrong that you can't see the car in the side mirrors, they are talking nonsense. You should not be able to see your car in the side mirrors because what you would see behind you with them adjusted that way, you already see in the rear-view mirror. Side mirrors should be adjusted to see what is between the view in your center mirror and what you see by glancing out the side window.
Again, the blind spots are what you can't see when sitting in a driving position looking forward, not twisting around looking backwards, not leaning forwards and to the side to see around the a-pillar, what you see when sitting in a driving position looking forwards, glancing in your mirrors, and glancing to the side. Don't be playing Twister while in the car trying to drive.
seeing your car in the mirrors just helps you guide exactly where it is, and thats just a preference
The official definition is so, but it's not a blind spot if it's physically possible to see it! Top of a horses nose, a blind spot, theres no go around for them. If that definition were to believed then nobody should ever shoulder check.
When I was taught to setup wing mirrors I was told to have a small amount (I'd say about 1-2% of the overall mirror) of bodywork showing in side closest to the vehicle as it helps you see someone sat on your rear quarters. If you arrange them that no bodywork is visible there is a chance you've just created a blind spot. The best way to find out is if you have someone walk round the back of your vehicle, you want them to be visible for as long as possible. A lot of cars I've jumped in (rentals, a works car, etc) have had the mirrors set up so badly all you could see in them was myself and/or the car or so far out I can can't see a car until it is almost parallel with the front seats. Might as well remove them completely if you don't use them right.
You shoulder check when you set off from a stationary position. You shouldn't shoulder check while on the move as your arms will naturally follow your body when you look back plus it means taking your eyes off the road for much longer than you ever should.
I have my mirrors set up such that there's a slight overlap between the wing mirrors and side mirrors. This also has the effect of pointing the mirrors out far enough that there is also a slight overlap between the field of view on the side mirror and my peripheral vision. Thus, I have essentially no blind spots.
If you can see your own vehicle in your side mirrors in a normal driving position, you have them pointed in too far and you're creating a blind spot.
If you can see your own vehicle in your side mirrors in a normal driving position, you have them pointed in too far and you're creating a blind spot.
its impossible to have NO blindspots.
sadly.
there will always be a blindspot, as small as it might be.
well, let me correct myself.
if u have HUGE sidemirrors u might be able to have no blindspots.
and the sidemirrors should always adjusted that u can see very little of ur car...i mean almost nothing, but still visible.
I can't stand seeing my car in my side mirrors. At most I will see my rear door handles as they stick out, but besides that I don't want to see any of my car in my mirror. I know where it is, I want to find the others around me. 
Well, that's why you guys need to be reminded that something might actually be closer than it seems...
Aren't wing mirrors and side mirrors the same?
It depends on the car and it's mirrors. I don't drive a lot of highway (2 lane same direction) so I haven't messed with precisely adjusting my mirrors in quite some time. When I commuted about 40 miles down the interstate to work and back every day, I did set my mirrors up very precisely. I was able to follow a car behind me with the rear view and as he left my rear view, he entered the side mirror and as he left the side mirror, he would then enter my peripheral vision. I set up the same on the other side by pulling into the left lane and passing the car in front of me. There were no blind spots in that particular car and it didn't have large mirrors.
Nice thing about that effect is it's caused by your mirrors being convex, which provides a wider field of view.
Yes. I meant a slight overlap between wing mirrors and the rear view mirror, much as you described.
So deliberately setting them to an angle with no point of reference must really help with depth perception, yes?
+1.
IMO, if you set your mirrors not to see even a small amount of your car, you would see more road but with no points of reference at all.
Is that better? I don't think so.
Biker gets rear ended.
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