http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-12462959

The long and the short of this story is a fan was spotted making aircraft gestures - apparently mocking the 1958 Man U air crash which killed most of the Busby Babes - in a music video for Crawley FC's FA Cup song. He was then arrested for "suspicion of causing harassment, alarm or distress" and bailed.

I thought this would be (potentially) an interesting debate - is there a "freedom of expression" issue here? As offensive as the gesture was (and I realise Crawley will play Man U in the FA Cup this weekend), is offending the memory of a disaster/fans of a football team an arrestable offence?

I believe the gesture was in very poor taste and unnecessary, but illegal? Your thoughts please.

Definitely in poor taste but totally within his rights of freedom of expression, IMO.

"Suspicion of harassment" sounds like a total BS charge, too. Either charge him with harassment and try him or leave him alone.

Agreed with Forbin.

Also, go Crawley!

Also agreed with Forbin.

Quite an easy one, this

if you apply this to other human disasters, then it becomes clear that it was the wrong thing to do.
should he be arrested for it? no. should he be banned from football stadiums? yes. why? it's acts like this that cause the riots in the the stadiums. the "Roma" incident could of happened. UTD dealt with that (Roma incident)the right way (we thrashed Roma 7-1 the following week). i think this is going to happen again this weekend.

I'd say football riots are more a result of retarded fans in general than the actions of one imbecile.

Quote from Forbin :

I'd say football riots are more a result of retarded fans in general than the actions of one imbecile.

imo, it's provocative behaviour in general that's the cause of the violence we see in football. all it takes is for one fan to act on the others taunts and then all hell breaks loose (usually).
like a troll attempt. i'll get my coat.

The best way is to ban football imo. it's such a dull sport

ho ho ho i'm sure i'll tale flak for this

Don't arrest him, just bring him on at half time, show the video clip, then give out his full name and address on the tannoy. I believe in freedom of speech, but you have to take the consequences. It's like that radical muslim group that burnt poppies, they had the right to do it, but they shouldn't have been protected.

Quote from ATC Quicksilver :

Don't arrest him, just bring him on at half time, show the video clip, then give out his full name and address on the tannoy. I believe in freedom of speech, but you have to take the consequences. It's like that radical muslim group that burnt poppies, they had the right to do it, but they shouldn't have been protected.

That's cruel and unusual punishment, with no trial to boot.

I agree with dadge on every point. It was wrong to have him arrested, but completely right to keep him away from a football match. Don't bring people like that to stadiums if they're going to offend somebody (in a football stadium, of all places!!!)
I'm compelled to think that if the guy who made the gesture hadn't been arrested, he would've probably been torn apart by the people that got offended...

Quote from Senninha25 :

I agree with dadge on every point. It was wrong to have him arrested, but completely right to keep him away from a football match. Don't bring people like that to stadiums if they're going to offend somebody (in a football stadium, of all places!!!)
I'm compelled to think that if the guy who made the gesture hadn't been arrested, he would've probably been torn apart by the people that got offended...

In that case, it would be the job of the police to arrest and try the people that tore him apart. Physical violence is not a valid nor legal response to verbal abuse.

Geez, what's with the thought police around here... Some serious fascist ideas in this thread.

Sounds like something i'd do.

Quote from Forbin :

In that case, it would be the job of the police to arrest and try the people that tore him apart. Physical violence is not a valid nor legal response to verbal abuse.

Very true. Nor moral for that matter. But the problem is that violence is still considered as a way to prove a point, and it could have nearly happened in this particular case.
And in today's world it's still hard to ignore some bastard who every now and then happens to try to offend something or someone.

Quote from Forbin :

That's cruel and unusual punishment, with no trial to boot.

Sounds good to me.

I'm sure China or North Korea would be glad to have you.

Quote from Forbin :

Definitely in poor taste but totally within his rights of freedom of expression, IMO.

Yup. I can't fathom how anyone could refute this point, to be honest.

Quote :

"Suspicion of harassment" sounds like a total BS charge, too. Either charge him with harassment and try him or leave him alone.

I understand England has a lot of these BS legalities. Pity, that.

Quote from rich uk :

The best way is to ban football imo. it's such a dull sport

+1.

Everyone should just play Hockey. Or Lacrosse, or any other suitably violent sport (violence of the fans, like in soccer, does not constitute a violent sport!)

Lucky lacrosse isn't violent.

He will never be charged for anything, how impossible is it to prove that he was specifically referencing that crash.

Anyway, it's ridiculous to get lifted for an 'offensive gesture' at a football match. Imagine they tried to enforce it at an old firm match? The full stadium would have to be arrested.

Quote from dawesdust_12 :

Lucky lacrosse isn't violent.

Not violent? It's a sport where you're given a stick and told to hit people. It's brilliant!

It's not violent actually. Hockey honestly is more violent because it's not expected when people lose their shit. Lacrosse is tame as its expected that people will kill each other.

Quote from DeKo :

He will never be charged for anything, how impossible is it to prove that he was specifically referencing that crash.

Anyway, it's ridiculous to get lifted for an 'offensive gesture' at a football match. Imagine they tried to enforce it at an old firm match? The full stadium would have to be arrested.

Here's the thing, and taking this into a Scottish issue, but should anyone be arrested for singing offensive songs. By that I mean the sectarian songs that are often sung by the old firm minority home and away.

Personally, I think it would have been right for the police to speak to the guy, basically telling him to stop being a complete and utter bellend, but to arrest him is going too far. But yes, ban him from the ground as these gestures lead to issues and potential violence latter on.

people can only be affected by offensive actions as much as they allow themselves to be. Be the bigger man.