Hello people, especially if you're experienced server admins! Let me present here an idea, all constructive comments are most welcome.

In these past years while I took quite an active part in LFS, I've met many people from many teams. And I have to say that in great majority they were extremely nice guys with great interest in good racing. They all had cool ideas, but more often than not, somehow, the projects failed to attract sufficient attention. And, lets face it, popularity is important.

Maybe we could try to concentrate our efforts and focus on one joined project, instead of many separate ones. Surely, there will be different ideas and not everyone can be perfectly happy with the outcome, but if we all make a bit of a compromise, maybe we can get tangible results, improving LFS racing while having more fun.

The idea would be to run one server with configuration acceptable to general LFS public and to the participating admins as well. It will not be a specific team/community server, all interested teams can have some people with admin rights on the server, all can have their word in shaping it. That's why I'd call it a multi-team project. All the nice people I know that are not much active anymore could take active part again in this project, maybe meet another nice people.

To have any chance for success, I think we can't make a hardcore-racing server. Many will not be absolutely happy, but I believe such a server needs rotated tracks and some assortment of interesting cars available to give people options. On the other hand allowing everything is too much, my initial suggestion would be to stick with GT cars only, specifically allow XFG, XRG (GTI), UFR, XFR (GTL) and FZR, FXR, XRR (GTR), plus some usual restricted versions of the cars (GT2, GTJ). Altogether 7 standard cars in maximum 5 categories.

Of course complete freedom for everyone would mean a disaster. I would propose to limit car usage based only on safety rating, nothing else. Many experienced people will be able to use all cars right after 1st connect, when their high initial rating will be set. But they may lose the ability in case the rating drops, while others, initially less experienced, may soon reach even the fastest cars. As simple as it may be.

Certainly, many questions remain. Such as: Why try to create another CG? I hope my initial proposal is obviously different. Much less cars/categories to choose from, still enough options to keep peoples' interest. Also simpler conditions to meet. Maybe no points/ranks/licences at all to revive the spirit of racing. I would supply Airio PROS and could take care of the config. Certainly we can find an unused server, there are so many. All ideas would be welcome.

So, what say you? Will team leaders and team members, so far basically locked to their own servers, often slowly disappearing, be interested in this endeavor? I do realize we may find many obstacles, but I also know many of you are looking for something else than offered by today's LFS. If you still think it is possible, please come forward and share your opinions. Say what you think would be good. Consider also what failed in the past.

Well, this is just an idea, initial proposal (based on what I'd personally love to see), trying to find a compromise between hardcore racing, that is really not very popular, and too open and complicated environments, unacceptable to others. As said, constructive comments are most welcome, especially from experienced server admins that know what works and what does not. Thanks for reading!

XFG & XRG are not GT cars and should never be included with NGT, GT2 or GT1 cars unless you have a screw loose.

But I agree with having a NGT + GT2 + GT1 server, not been a successful one since CTRA Race 3 died. Certainly there needs to be something different to GT1 running at the same track for 5 or so years, and GT2 on a server with a million other cars.

Some have even suggested running an iRacing style schedule, with races every half an hour or something with a 5-10 min quali in between.

The principal question is if there are teams/admins willing to cooperate on such a project, even if they have to make some compromises, or if there's no interest at all, for various reasons (e.g. such cooperation is not possible, admining the server would simply fail, having anything reasonable is not possible). Specific configuration is a secondary matter for now.

you could have a separate server for the XFG and XRG (maybe the UF1 too). have the same tracks rotating to promote track knowledge. it could also be a gateway to increase your rating faster.
CG is a great server, but for me there's just too many options in terms of car choices.
in the sence where you would not be allowed to race the GTR's if your rating was too low, could the same be done with the GTi cars if your rating was too high? this would encourage drivers to migrate to servers that have drivers of a similar rating.
just an idea.

I always dreamed about GTR (not GT2) server with track rotation...Everytime when GTR server appears, it's AS3 or it's running qualification 24/7. Good luck with the idea, I'd be happy to race on servers like this

Great idea eq... maybe have it multiclass... maybe NGT and GT1 so that no "noob" teams can ram.

Well, I'd say there's nothing especially new about this. There are many servers with various configurations. Problem is of course popularity. Nobody goes to empty servers, at least not regularly. But also if you allow everyone to take GTR cars, it is just awful and server is soon empty and hated by many. On the other hand, if you apply limitations, many people also leave as soon as they realize they cannot use the strongest beasts. It is very hard to find the right balance. Same with track rotations. For many quick rotations are not acceptable, for many others static tracks are also unacceptable. But overall, the questions of the race format, cars, requirements are minor matters. The question is if there can be a server where experienced people from different teams meet and take care of matters together. So far I received four skeptic opinions, one guy willing to help.

For all that you've done for the LFS community, if there's anything I can do, I'm in.

it sounds like the CRC is going to be reborn

Quote from EQ Worry :

Well, I'd say there's nothing especially new about this. There are many servers with various configurations. Problem is of course popularity. Nobody goes to empty servers, at least not regularly. But also if you allow everyone to take GTR cars, it is just awful and server is soon empty and hated by many. On the other hand, if you apply limitations, many people also leave as soon as they realize they cannot use the strongest beasts. It is very hard to find the right balance. Same with track rotations. For many quick rotations are not acceptable, for many others static tracks are also unacceptable. But overall, the questions of the race format, cars, requirements are minor matters. The question is if there can be a server where experienced people from different teams meet and take care of matters together. So far I received four skeptic opinions, one guy willing to help.

You could do some sort of thing where drivers get the car class assigned based on finish?

Let's stick to the main point here please...

Quote from EQ Worry :

Let's stick to the main point here please...

i was. you joined at '08 so you might not remember the CRC (clean racers club). it wasn't a clan per say but more a collective of like minded people who only wanted a clean friendly environment to race. it was very popular. but it died i slow death as the new banning system was introduced with the release of S2. it was more of a S1 thing iirc.

Quote from z-ro 8 :

For all that you've done for the LFS community, if there's anything I can do, I'm in.

I agree.

Thank you, people. The point is not to help me, the point would be to create an alternative, maybe a new level of cooperation between teams looking for "some more serious racing," using closer cooperation (and limitations still acceptable to general LFS public). It is still just an idea, and I'm sure I'm not the first to suggest this, I claim no originality at all. Maybe I'll try to create such a server, to have a beginning, and then we will see if there's any chance to make some progress. We all have our views and it may prove impossible to reach a workable compromise. Especially when you take the volatile public interest into account.

Quote from dadge :

i was.

Oh sorry, I did not mean your comment. And thanks for the explanation, I really did not know what CRC was. (Except for Cyclic Redundancy Check, naturally.)

i would definately be interested in this, and i think its a great idea.

Quote from EQ Worry :

Let's stick to the main point here please...

ok how about this:

Something like iRacing where there are races every XX minutes. Lets say 45 minute races, each one starting at the next hour giving time between the races to organize teams.

In the insim you could possibly include a list including a "message" board where you can send requests to team with other drivers, and when it is time for driver 2 to take over it will say. "XXXXXusername Please prepare to takeover" when the pitwindow opens.

Quote from Anthoop :

I agree.

i agree also
Would be good to get some sort of collaboration going!

i think short sprint races to keep things interesting, races every 20-25 minutes, 10-15 minutes for the race itself, and 5-10 minutes to qualify/practice, just to get a few laps in.

Last year I had a GT2 server set up to start 15 minutes of practice at the top of every hour, followed by 10 minutes of qual then a 30 minute race.
Airio took care of all messages and server settings. It's easy to set up, and since it's on a set schedule, you knew you could look at the clock and decide when and if you could join or not.
It didn't get much use, but then I never really promoted it. Was more or less just something for me to do messing about with Airio.

Just a suggestion....

Great idea, I would be willing to help with this. I did mention the collaboration idea a while back to eq-worry and also have thought about an iracing style schedule, so if we could get together I am sure we could come up with a plan. I have been having a break from LFS for a little while now but will be back online soon.

My idea would be for each team to look after 1 class of racing, like xfg/xrg. Teams could swap around of course, or offer more classes. I would also like to see a standard ario cfg file across all the servers for things like points, safety rating, restrictions etc, with the sta files available to incorporate into external sites. I think it would be interesting to see what people come up with using the stats.

Anyway, it is late now but you can count SR in!

Excellent idea EQ. Good luck finding the right configuration though. If you need me for anything layout related, I'll be available

Let's give this a try, You can count on Genuine Racing's admins and we'll add one of our server which you can call what ever you decide...

Sounds interresting. Not sure how we could help, but you can count on Tiger Express' support somehow.

But anyway, look, it seems like we've(I don't like speaking on everyone's behalf, but it seems like the CG bashing is mainstream nowadays, so I belive a great part of us definitely has. No offense to CG, they're doing a good job IMO, but their server system is just unadapted for good quick and fun pick-up racing.) had enough of multiclass for most of us, since lately it was this or drift/cruise. Isn't there any other option than just making another one? Maybe we could propose a car rotation aswell, in order to keep as few classes as possible on track? Or maybe have two servers, one for starters, with slow cars, and another one for slightly more experienced people?

Thank you people for all the positive replies! I'm really getting excited now. Thanks also to Genuine Racing for kindly providing a server already, wow! I believe there are two main areas that would need close attention to have any chance to make this inter-team LFS racing revival work.

1) Administration of the server.

2) Configuration of the server.

Concerning point 1), to make it really an inter-team matter, I believe we should try to have admins from every participating team. That way the teams could feel at home at the server, not subject to whims of some unknown people. But proper admining is complicated work, many do not realize this. I have a prolonged experience in this field and I believe calmness and thinking twice is the key. Is there a dispute? Try to wind it down, never escalate matters. try to find a compromise acceptable for both parties. Are you angry? Try to calm down before taking any action, try to see the matter from the other perspective. Do you feel a ban is necessary? Consider that bans should primarily teach people to behave better next time. They can server that purpose, if they are short from the beginning. Save long bans only for repeated bad behavior.

Can we have admins from all around LFS able to see this, understand it, and most importantly apply the outlined principles? As I said already, I've met many admins from different teams, vast majority of them very kind and nice people with a common interest. Surely, there can be disputes, but I do hope everything can be solved by discussion. I believe the participating teams are full of sufficiently experienced people that are never crashing anyone on purpose. And if we all know that, we will know all the collisions are just racing accidents. I'm always an optimist (except among other optimists), I believe we can all realize this and thus eliminate large area of friction. We could have a discussion thread solving the troubles, but very often problems never arise if reasonable approach is taken right from the start. Choosing the right words to point to an issue is again the key.

Concerning point 2), I'm sure there will be lots and lots of ideas. I already received many, both here, via PMs and by MSN. Many of them are bright and nice, but I'm afraid also unworkable in a project that is aimed to catch public interest. Because without the general LFS public it is not possible to run reasonably popular server. And there's no point in having a not-really-so-much-used server. That's where another compromise comes in. We may try to keep some reasonable level of racing, but I think we cannot hope to make people like 30 minute races started by qualification.

I'm afraid we'll have to stick with something proven, at least for a start. Like max 10 minute races and rotated tracks. A good option may be to start new track with short qualification to allow for adaptation, but then follow with 6 or max 8 short races on that track. Track voting is a good option as well, I think, I would gladly extend the existing system so that it is not possible (or rather not so easy) to vote constantly for the same tracks.

My initial proposal included 7 cars in 5 categories. I would say that is a good balance between variability and limitations. People often say that GTI (or whatever we call XFG+XRG) and GTR cars cannot race together. I think the speed difference is so high, that overtaking is not a problem, which cannot be said about other categories racing together. Some say you can have the best races in XFG and XRG and I agree. Of course we could agree on excluding these slow cars, going only for GTL (aka NGT), GT2 and GTR classes. The upside is less car categories, the downside is more inexperienced people in faster cars and limited choices.

OK, enough for now, I see another suggestion coming in...

Quote from GreyBull [CHA] :

Sounds interresting. Not sure how we could help, but you can count on Tiger Express' support somehow.

Thx!

Quote from GreyBull [CHA] :

... Isn't there any other option than just making another one? Maybe we could propose a car rotation aswell, in order to keep as few classes as possible on track? Or maybe have two servers, one for starters, with slow cars, and another one for slightly more experienced people?

I would hope it would not be another one! I'm afraid there need to be some cars/categories to choose from, but not too wide range. Something acceptable to hardcore drivers as well as to general public looking for some fun racing from time to time. I was proposing 5 classes, and I think having 3 is really a bit too low. But, sure, I might be wrong. Having two (or more) servers seems like a future option to me, if we ever can get one running. As far as I remember, even the higher-level CTRA servers were not used much, and that was in better LFS times, while the entry level servers ran well.