In sprintraces cars that get stuck in the sandtraps dont get pulled free. That is true, but they still get lifted over the wall by a towcrane.
And in endurance races u verry often see cars that got stuck being pulled free so they can continue their race.
So we could still use a crane in both..either to lift u behind the fence or to pull u free again.
Not only for realisms sake but also because it would be a nice visual feature for any racer
That's actually a good idea also Reminds me of one of those rip-off
games of Wipe-Out (zero-gravity racing ships). Out of the sky would come out a
crane to pick you up when you fell out of the track. You'd only see the boom
come out of the sky and the 'rope' hook on your car then you are 'reset' back on
track. In LFS, there could be some sort of crane that picks you up and puts you
back in pits. Ok, i'm pushing i guess, hehe.
As for the marshalls pushing a car back on track, i'm not sure where, but i've
seen it many times. Usually, when the car is simply out of traction, like on grass
or sand, a few guys will push the car until it can move on it's own. I've never
seen marshalls actually ON the track pushing a car though. There might be a
rule for that actually as cars have to finish 'under their own power".
I like to race seriously but this is a joke. Why shouldnt people be able to reset out of a sandtrap If anyone watched Bathurst you will notice that Alex Tagliani got stuck in the gravel he was then towed out and sent on his way.
I dont know about anyone else in the LFS community but I like to have fun playing this sim. By that I mean Close racing, occasional rubbing of panels, and all the other things that come with an online "game", oh but I know its a sim.... Yes it is but its also a game.
Why does a "small" percentage of the LFS community want to take everything that makes the sim enjoyable out?
No reset means newer drivers ie. virgins would get frustrated with not being able to reset and like me would turn away thinking good sim but just not fun.
Keep up the good work devs but please reset my car on the grass or something not in the gravel trap!
It seems as most people in this thread agree that the reset option should be available, but with a time delay of sort to simulate the fact that track marshalls has to run to your car and manually push it back on track.
So the ultimate solution would be to have this as a server option.
Reset Possible - On/Off
Reset Delay - X seconds
Everyone should be happy and everyone could have exactly the sort of racing and rules they like. And chance of this being implemented?
I'm with Unforgiven, car reset is one of those things that greatly improves the playability of LFS and I don't see much reason to even allow it to be disabled server side.
Personally, I would like to see the reset option go away or be disallowed on the server end. For hot lapping and single player it's fine, but for actual races I want to be able to turn it off.
I would like to setup my server like so:
No resetting allowed
Go to Pits option factors in a certain amount of towing time
It would work like so: I'm running a server with resetting not allowed. During the race if someone goes off track they need to try to drive back onto the track using their own power. If they're stuck in the sand and unable to rejoin they can choose to "go to pits". This would give them a message "Being towed to pits" and a delay (set by the server. short races could have a shorter delay while realistic 30 lappers could have a realistic delay of several minutes). After the delay is over they appear in the pits and are able to rejoin on whatever lap they failed to finish.
This would be realistic, would allow better control for league games and people who want more strict servers (like me) and would still be able to be turned off for banger racing or people who like having resetting available. Also, the program wouldn't have to factor in if it's safe to reset or not since resetting to the pits will always be safe to do.
So, I'm thinking more like:
Reset Possible - On/Off
Reset Delay - X seconds
Instant Go to Pits - On/Off
Go to Pits Delay - X seconds
Yes. This is why i said if the car is still driveable, simulate marshalls pushing
it back on track, but only if there's no traffic. If the car is undriveable,
there should be a yellow flag and after a delay you'd be sent to the pits.
Perhaps even in repair-mode so you also have to wait for the car to be fixed,
none of that magical pit&fixed stuff. Heck, in some cases there could be a
full course yellow and a pace car, i'd love that myself.
How can you start out saying you don't know how others feel, then talk
about "a small percentage of them" ?! I'm not arguying your choice of words,
it's just that it's very hard to define this. You must realise that there are a lot
of people who have and use LFS that aren't "in the community". By that i
mean there are some that do not come to forums like this one or RSC. It's
hard to know their opinion so i'm not sure what a "small percentage of the
LFS community" really represents, especially as it's being based on a
subjective opinion.
In a way, it's a shame for them, because "a small percentage of the
LFS community" (i think this is the right context..) decides what LFS
should be. If Scawen has 98 e-mails asking for NOS and 2 asking
for none, how do you know if the majority agree. Statistically, 98%
want NOS. I'm sure you all see where this goes. Of course, i doubt
Scawen would include this, at least not in S2, so no amount of e-mails
should change that.
Exactly. I'm not new at all and i get frustrated when i get reset in a sand trap
which i can't get out of. Might as well pit me. I don't think it's got to do with
fun. The issue here is that the current reset is NOT working well, so it should
be fixed. This is where i'm very open. I would take a better reset that sticks
you back ON the track, but on the side and when there are no cars
approaching. I'd also like an option to disable reset and use a
Marshall/TowTruck approach where either you wait for the car to be 'pushed'
on track, or you get sent to pit with your wrecked car. Ideally, for me, would
be to disable reset once a race starts. Reset would only be enabled when
practicing before/after. Even Qualifying would benefit from a disabled reset.
For me, the fun is getting in the mood of a real race driver.
One related thing I dont like is the 'jump to pit' ability. I haven't been online for a while so I don't know if it's still this way, but it seemed that if you crash and end up on the track you're expected to hit the pit button quick to get off the track. If someone crashed in front of me, I'd prefer them not too! It would be good if there was a server option to allow you only to go to the pit menu from within the pits.
As for the resetting, I'm of the opinion that real racing should be recreated as accurately as possible including the bad bits (or rather have server options so it can be made that way if desired). However, as pointed out there are times where you may be able to get back on track with the help of marshals etc. This obviously isn't simulated at the moment, so perhaps the ability to reset is a fair replacement?
What about allow reset car only if no other player see yellow flag from reseting car to avoid reseting car "jumping" into racing line in front of another car and ruining his race.
I mean, if some other car is near, reset wont work and you must wait.
(sorry for my english)
But I find the thread interesting and this should be discussed. I think resetting is quite useless, I myself never use it I think. Only on single player or when I'm on my roof. So I don't exploit it to get myself back in the right direction after a spin. Like many have said before, I'd like to see damage more expanded to engine, and a crash means forfait. Unless you are able to crawl back to the pits and repair.
Something I've coded already but excluded from the recent test patches, because it's incompatible...
In the next incompatible version there will be two options :
- no resets allowed
- resets allowed
No resets will be the default option. Resets will get you out of the dirt and fix your car like in single player. Resets will be regarded as an "arcade" feature, more for first timers who don't yet know how to stay on the track (for example : in an arcade).
I'm wondering about the jump starts as well, if maybe the current start system should be lumped together with "resets allowed" into a single option known as "arcade mode".
If it was like that then Arcade Mode would be like the current LFS but with damage repair on reset plus removal from the gravel traps. Default Mode would disallow resets and allow jump starts.
But maybe those should be two different options - no big deal anyway, just thought I'd mention it, seeing this conversation about resets. It's not very realistic.
2sgt.flippy: agreed. but now, reset is here and there is problem with people reseting car when someone is near and causing crash. this would be easy solution. imo its better than X seconds delay.
2mabyenot: reset is for situations you are on roof or side and its against playability in endu races if you must end if damage is minor. puting car magically to the right direction is bug, I agree, but putting car to the same direction as it was on roof, why not..
Im for no reset option on HC servers too.
EDIT: Scawen as usual. But I dont know if its good learn people crash car without paying and reset in front of other car.. If someone dont know how to stay on tarmac, he should stay in single player and not going online and ruining races.
Sounds like a well thought out plan, however on the topic of resets etc, Please tell me you are going to do something about the AI resetting (from roof etc) and spawning in front of cars that are racing full speed? I tend to play more offline than on and like competent AI, can you please make the AI that get bogged, hide in corners and just sit there respawn in pits if they are stuck for more than 15 seconds? At many tracks the AI just sit in the sand and grind away for 20 laps bogged , and if too many go off there's no one to race against
Can we have them respawn to pits only and go through the pit stop cycle and rejoin from pit lane, also please tell me we will soon have decent AI that will pit for fuel, heed tyre temps and I can train overnight!!! I miss highly trained AI
@Scawen: making these seperate options might be a good way to go. Apart from offering more variety, having these as seperate options might help racers to migrate from arcade to a more serious mode of online play.
Boy do I feel dumb. I know I've seen a key assignment for 'reset car' in the options, and I think I may have pressed it a time or two while racing and thought, "Uh, that doesn't do anything?" and forgot about it. Whenever I get unrecoverably stuck in the sand, or end up on my roof, I warp to the pits.
From reading this thread though, I think I favor the option of disabling resets - if you're in a position requiring a reset, it should be "game over man, game over." However, I also like the idea of having a reset delay; this should be significant though. A tow truck can't get to your location, hook you up, pull you out, and unhook in 10 seconds; you should have to wait a minute or more to rejoin the race.
Of course, the delay should be a configurable option as well; when I'm hotlapping online on my hidden private server, I'd rather take the easy way out. I guess I'll have to try this fancy-schmancy "reset" thingy though, if I ever wreck again (lol )
just a little insight from how it is done IRL> (I work at a race track, have the Clerk of the Course FIA license and our national sporting steward license)
The general FIA rules don't say anything on this. It's always in the rules of the specific league/cup/etc. wheter they allow help from the track marshalls and to what extent. Most common is this: If the car gets stuck somewhere (anywhere) and is able to continue on its own after it has been unstuck (pushed outside the gravel bed, engine started with the internal starter, push start by the track marshalls is forbidden) then everything is fine, no penalties or whatsoever.
Should the car be on its roof and the track marshalls turned the car back on its wheels he could continue (however every car that i've seen that ended on its roof, was undriveable).
So my point of view on this> NO - to the reset&repair option, repairs should only be done in the pits (imagine T1 crashes, where noone has the fear of damaging his car). I say it would be best to allow the reset button, but only when there are no cars around (its safe for the track marshals to help the car out of the gravel / put it back on wheels) and leave the on/off option only for allowing shift+s warp to pits.
I read some BelCar rules yesterday, and like the guy above said, if you can still start the car, you are allowed to continue, if you can't keep up to the pace, you're allowed to drive 3 laps on that pace. Nobody is allowed to touch the car, so I don't think it's allowed to roll a car back over and it could continue. If a car can't reach the pits on it's own (rolling or driving, no help allowed from marshals or anyone else), it is automatically a forfait. If the driver gets out of the car and gets more than 20 meters away from it, he forfaits too.
It was an interesting read, how these things are set in real life. In lfs I think it should be like in real life, if you're on your roof, you probably won't be able to continue, if you're stuck... You're stuck, nothing to do about it, nobody is allowed to push the car. But it's good to have two differents setups for that, so I'm pro arcade too, I know it's a sim, but hey, you gotta be realistic in a sain thinking way! Not everybody is perfect, and it's not fun to have to sit out an entire race because maybe someone else crashed you.
I do agree with you. NO reset and _repair_ please! Just leave the default setting as it is and add an extra option for hardcore races to disallow reseting car.
Reminds me of one of those rip-off
