Quote from EQ Worry :

And in fact out of the 6 racing CTRA servers only 2 were used regularly, STD and FBM. So the principle of separating people on servers by categories failed even then.

The general concept might have not worked that well overall, I disagree in the facts, Race 3 was often pretty much crowded in evenings.

Quote from EQ Worry :

I forgot to mention one thing: As also suggested by some people above, for now next track voting is disabled.

Good

Quote from GreyBull [CHA] :

The general concept might have not worked that well overall, I disagree in the facts, Race 3 was often pretty much crowded in evenings.

3/6 = 50% ... That's even a fail over here in the states.

CTRA was nothing special at all, just overhyped. Just give me some decent TBO racing and I'll be happy.

Quote from PMD9409 :

3/6 = 50% ... That's even a fail over here in the states.

CTRA was nothing special at all, just overhyped. Just give me some decent TBO racing and I'll be happy.

From my experience it provided me with some memorable racing that I still remember ... happy days.

Quote from JohnPenn :

From my experience it provided me with some memorable racing that I still remember ... happy days.

+1. Was loving these servers

Guys, it is nice to know your opinion about the CTRA, but it really doesn't matter, don't you see? We're in a different situation.

You could however try to analyze what exactly it was that you liked or didn't like. But a general statement such as "there was a good racing" has no significance unless you say why, in your opinion, there was a good racing. What settings/conditions made the good racing possible? The same for saying "it was popular/crowded". Why, you think? And the same for "it was stupid". What would you change then?

I can see/remember two things that made it different. 1) The Web interface, really extensive, with all kinds of information, both personal and racing. 2) The reporting system, allowing to send replays for later bans, which more or less worked, if you waited for a few days.

What made CTRA and many other servers fun for me was was the rotating tracks and everyone driving the same class of car, it was never about points and badges for me.


I have a soft spot for XFG and also the XRT and these and other servers filled that spot very nicely.

I think overall less is more in LFS, less code, less stats, most importantly good admins who raise the standards of a server and who lead by example.
LFS is facing a tough time ATM .. back to basics Gents

Good luck with this endeavour

Quote from JohnPenn :

What made CTRA and many other servers fun for me was was the rotating tracks and everyone driving the same class of car, it was never about points and badges for me.


I have a soft spot for XFG and also the XRT and these and other servers filled that spot very nicely.

I think overall less is more in LFS, less code, less stats, most importantly good admins who raise the standards of a server and who lead by example.
LFS is facing a tough time ATM .. back to basics Gents

Good luck with this endeavour

QFT. i have to agree. for me it was frustrating having to drive cars that i wasn't interested in, in order to have a handful of drivers driving the same cars.
for some reason, when i used to see John join the server, i was always compelled to send him my setup lol.

Hmmm, OK, I see a real interest in single class races. Since GT2s and GTRs were allowed, raising the available classes to 5, I basically received only negative responses. Even 3 classes seemed too much to many, so I see two options: We can go for just 2 classes, or in fact for just 1 class. I believe many of you veterans would love to see a single class, and though I personally do not feel that could work in the long term, we may try this approach. How do you think this could be organized? If just 1 class is used, I'm afraid there can be no safety rating requirements (at least while just one server is used), so the races, however strong cars are used, must be open to everyone. Still think this may work? If so, we could maybe start with GTIs? Some say they are the best races and I really tend to agree. CTRA Race 1 revival then? (Ehm, forget this last question...)

Quote from EQ Worry :

For the future, maybe a system allowing track voting, but limiting accessibility of recently selected tracks could be a solution.

That's a good one, better than no vote same circle of tracks rotation.

Also, putting so many different classes at the same server makes you then no different than CG S2 server.

Quote from EQ Worry :

Hmmm, OK, I see a real interest in single class races. Since GT2s and GTRs were allowed, raising the available classes to 5, I basically received only negative responses. Even 3 classes seemed too much to many, so I see two options: We can go for just 2 classes, or in fact for just 1 class. I believe many of you veterans would love to see a single class, and though I personally do not feel that could work in the long term, we may try this approach. How do you think this could be organized? If just 1 class is used, I'm afraid there can be no safety rating requirements (at least while just one server is used), so the races, however strong cars are used, must be open to everyone. Still think this may work? If so, we could maybe start with GTIs? Some say they are the best races and I really tend to agree. CTRA Race 1 revival then? (Ehm, forget this last question...)

if it were single class, you could have the same for multiple servers. just different classes. your SR would determine which servers you would be able to join or race on.

Quote from sermilan :

Also, putting so many different classes at the same server makes you then no different than CG S2 server.

Hm, yes, yes. I'm still concerned, however, that allowing just 1 class cannot reasonably work in today's LFS state. But it seems 5 classes are waaay too many for lots of people. So maybe 2 classes?

Quote from dadge :

if it were single class, you could have the same for multiple servers. just different classes. your SR would determine which servers you would be able to join or race on.

Yes, such functionality is already available. The question is whether it is worth the attempt to run two servers sharing stats. Maybe one with GTI + TBO and the other with GTL + GTR?

Quote from EQ Worry :

Maybe one with GTI + TBO and the other with GTL + GTR?

That's a good idea . The difference in speed of those cars would then be acceptable for safe racing.

I like 2 categories idea better too (tho I wouldn't mind one, but agree 3 and more is too much), maybe GTi+TBO and GTL+GT2?

Just got an email from our host, saying that this server will be moved to a new machine today, so expect some down time tonight. This should mean a very stable server for everyone to enjoy.
Date: 6th March 2011 Time: 21:30 GMT - 01:30 GMT

Quote from EQ Worry :

Hm, yes, yes. I'm still concerned, however, that allowing just 1 class cannot reasonably work in today's LFS state. But it seems 5 classes are waaay too many for lots of people. So maybe 2 classes?



Yes, such functionality is already available. The question is whether it is worth the attempt to run two servers sharing stats. Maybe one with GTI + TBO and the other with GTL + GTR?

perfect dude. what frustrates a lot of drivers is the speed differences between the multi class servers. is there a way to reduce the amount your SR would increase per race once you are qualified to race on the higher server? the trick is to try to make the higher class server more appealing to those who are qualified to race on it.

Quote from Framaris :

I like 2 categories idea better too (tho I wouldn't mind one, but agree 3 and more is too much), maybe GTi+TBO and GTL+GT2?

Well, yes, why not, I love the GT2 cars, all of them, while I find GTRs too strong for the average driver, me.

Quote from dadge :

is there a way to reduce the amount your SR would increase per race once you are qualified to race on the higher server?

Yes, it is possible, rating weights (increase and decrease for certain actions) are configurable per server, while the resulting ratings are shared among the servers. But I did not quite understand your idea how to use this feature.

PS: I already implemented one rating feature mentioned above, that is rating improvements based on track length. Good idea!

Last 3 evenings have been good, but last night was a blast, some great racing going on there!!

Sorry racing maybe fun, but rotation is not, rotate it daily or weekly but not every hour or so, or maybe ..... (idea mentioned later)


Rotation - This makes me leave a server, and is VERY, VERY annoying to join to race a combo and it ends. As mentioned many times already, building a set or learning the track is somrthing that is very difficult in just accomplish in a few short races.
You might think people get bored, but thats the format imo, race restart race restart. This is a major point to consider.
More focus on this I think.

There are many many multiclass servers that rotate the track all day long, I want some kind of Server doesnt, rotate constantly. If I wanted to race random configs i can close my eyes in LFS game browser and click away.
Have Info on future configs accessible on the server or a webpage, make it very easy to find.
You seem to pull this figure of 75% out of nowhere EQ that people get bored in one hour, in that hour i can maybe manage 2 short races have a brew and a smoke. This does not include time for a good qualification or warmup.
I Know not everyone wants to do this, but I would consider maybe keeping the rotation periods as they are but maybe just switch between two tracks for the day, one for the night or every hour or 2. At least those that like me were annoyed that combo missed has gone, that there will be alot more opportunities to race it later.
That would work for me, but too many combos is much worse then doing the same one all evening, i don`t learn, i don`t get fully immersed into my racing enviroment

Likewise, it's also annoying when you get to a shit combo and you know that it won't change until tomorrow, or you've been playing for a few hours and need something different. At least with rotations you get a change in the not too distant future.

Maybe there could be a server set up with a daily track change at midnight GMT, with the same car for a week, and races starting every half hour? That would be interesting to try, if everyone got behind the idea to give it a go.

we have enough teams with servers backing this we could have a bunch of servers open just to fill what specific people want...

As I see it, the first and most important thing people want is a reasonably full server. I do not say 45 connections, but at least 15, rather 20. Only then people start coming in greater numbers, and there can be nice races, just as we've seen yesterday with GTI. Then come some racing standards together with the current combo.

Al, you say that 75% I mention comes out of nowhere. True, I have no hard data to prove it, but look around at today's LFS. Static servers do not work. I believe it is sad for some, but I also cannot really find it fun to stay on the same track or combo for much more than two hours.

Yesterday, when we raced with GTI, the track rotated twice. I saw nobody complaining. In fact I was proposing to stay on the same track a bit longer, but everyone was looking forward to the next track. Please also go through this discussion. I feel the posts requiring static combos are in great minority (but true, most posts here are from me :razz.

Currently there are only two classes open on the MultiOpen Racing server, not to make it another CG. This is to appease the hardcore LFSers. But I think we have no chance to see any lasting interest from the LFS community without rotating tracks. Ehhhh...

Heh EQ im not suggesting a static server that never rotates, just much less rotation. The devs already have a few static race servers that are mostly unused (afiak).

Can I give an opinion: I find the 6 race rotation way too short too. However I could live with it if the combo doesn't suck arse like yesterday. Don't get me wrong, it's been a long since I've actually even played lfs but doing laps with xfg/xrg or tbo around so long or ky long is as interesting as the inside of a cucumber. The longest tracks don't mix with the slowest cars. Secondly there were literally no setups available in sg so it was all a bit meh. After all pickup racing shouldn't depend on your ability to fine tune a setup over a week (which wouldn't even be possible because the track would have changed over 60 000 times in that time).

I know some people like tbo or gti even on the longer tracks. I personally don't really like the slow cars and I hate tbo with great passion but on shorter circuits it would have been a bit more bearable. So can you please either ditch the long tracks in whole or return junior ngt or gt2. Please?

Hi,
let me delineate my idea of ideal server for average racer.
I consider myself as average racer, not by PBs (they are much worse ) but by behaviour.
So what average racer want? I want to race not to crash. I want somebody to race with - at least one or two racers at similar level whom I can keep up, it usually requires fellow racer with the same car and similar setup.
How does my usual racing session looks like? I pick a car by actual taste and some known track (usually BL1 for nostalgic reasons ). Do several laps with default setup to get feeling of the car, get some "better" setup from web, do some other laps, try to improve my lap times, maybe change to another track. Then I go search for some populated server with combo I would like to try.
At this point a usualy realize that there is no such server with people racing. Last time I ended up in single player race with AI. Believe it or not, it was quite fun. Same car. Same setup. As last on start grid I have somebody to race with. I even improved by PB (yes, I know pretty lame) but if you have somebody to race with suddenly you become faster

Basicaly there are 4 steps:

1. Get used to the car, standard setup
   
2. Get used to the track
   
3. After I get used to car, track combo, I try to improve my lap times, try other setups
   
4. Do some racing against other people
   

So finally, ideal server for me would be:

1. one, at most two comparable car classes per combo, longer rotation interval, let say 3 * X (see point 2.) minutes
   
2. track rotation X minutes
   
3. provide some reasonable initial setup (maybe link on welcome screen?)
   
4. I would also appreciate if there will be some regular schedule for combos. E.g. Every monday at 19:00 there will be FBM at BL1. Rotation intervals would need to be carefully thought out to schedule combos for major timezones at reasonable time
   

General idea is to let people drive 1 car on more tracks (e.g. 3, this is the 3 in 3 * X) and to allow to try more cars, but to get balanced races (one car class in race).
Idea behind 1. and 2. is to let people try more tracks with car they got used to.
Idea behind 3. is to achieve balanced races (I know it's not only about setup, but it helps).
Idea behind 4. is that regular combos would attract racers to come back and race their favourite track with favourite car.

All this stuff should be supported by some web page with combo shedules, statistics, click&join, etc.

I do not request anything I just think you would appreciate average racers point of view.

I hope I didn't go too far off topic

@ static : Ehm, yes, I see, but a server with 24 hour rotation is, I think, static. But again, I repeat, this is an attempt to create a server acceptable to vast majority of people and run by multiple teams. What I say and think has in no way any greater weight than what other team leaders think and want. If the majority wants 24 hour rotation, so be it. But so far it does not seem to be the case.

@ KY3 : Ah, yes. The server config was done initially for the GT racing, including GTL and GRT cars, so even longer tracks such as KY3 are rotated. But I guess if the server stays GTI+TBO, then some shorter tracks could be used as well, for example FE4 replaced by FE1, and SO1 also used...

@ goerge : Very nice analysis! It is for me hard to comment on all the mentioned things. Web stats, pages, announcements, subscriptions, all that would be great, but is there someone willing to do it? If so, raise your voice now! I can add some functionality to Airio supporting what would be needed, but I cannot do such pages.