Quote from EQ Worry :

@ goerge : Very nice analysis! It is for me hard to comment on all the mentioned things. Web stats, pages, announcements, subscriptions, all that would be great, but is there someone willing to do it? If so, raise your voice now! I can add some functionality to Airio supporting what would be needed, but I cannot do such pages.

I mentioned web stats, etc as some sort of footnote or would-be-nice-to-have features
The main message I wanted to deliver is 4 points list of ideal server features.

Quote from EQ Worry :

@ goerge : Very nice analysis! It is for me hard to comment on all the mentioned things. Web stats, pages, announcements, subscriptions, all that would be great, but is there someone willing to do it? If so, raise your voice now! I can add some functionality to Airio supporting what would be needed, but I cannot do such pages.

@EQ Worry: I could help you with the web stuff, so when I come back home, I'll talk with you about it and see if it's possible with my capabilities.

Has the server died thru inactivity?

Been looking every night for last week or so, but no-one ever on it.

Joined a few times, and done some laps, but mainly to see my name near the top of the rankings, where I don't normally sit.

Tonight I can't even see the server in the Hosts List.

I think everything in LFS has died down a bit.

Quote from sinanju :

Has the server died thru inactivity? ... Tonight I can't even see the server in the Hosts List.

It was for a short time off-line, due to troubles at the provider side. But otherwise, I guess you are right, it was not really used recently. The idea was to run a multi-team server, with every participating team having the same rights. It looked OK from the start, quite a few team leaders announcing their will to help to start and run the server, but that's where it ended. If I skip wild ideas and ideas requiring too much of additional work, I tried to form the server to comply with most peoples' expressed needs. Maybe I failed doing that. Or maybe all the help promises turned out to mean nothing.

The help was needed in two areas: 1) Expressing your views, especially as the configuration evolves. 2) Being active on the server, even when it is (almost) empty. Frankly, I did not see much of the promised help in either of these areas. Also, the server failed to catch the average LFS people during the week or two when it was used. There were some very experienced people for a time, but (let's face it) they will go only to populated servers and are no real help running a server on regular basis. Failing to attract the average LFS people means the server will never be used on regular basis. It is my view and I still do not see anything proving me wrong.

So, what now? Try to breath a new life into this? Change config, maybe to allow faster and more sought for cars (GTL, GT2, GTR)? Forget it all?

Well since Genuine sponsors the server, I say let it run a bit longer, we had some good fun on it and I feel our team members still want to give it a chance. That said it would be cool if other teams could just take responsibility for the server when empty, we want to help but we have many things to do and we can't admin it everyday. Maybe (if there are still interested teams) each leaders could nominate a few admins from their teams to get more ppls the opportunity to jump on the server to fully admin/run it, the more are involved the better I think.

Could that be an idea?

Quote from EQ Worry :

...attract the average LFS people..

I consider myself an average LFS user, so maybe a little info and personal perspective on what that means.

I've been online for about 4 years (played single player with AI for at least 6 months before I got courage to go online and race real people). Even after 5 years, I'm not that fast. Maybe 2 or 3 seconds off WR pace in the shorter tracks, way up to maybe 10 or 12 seconds off WR pace in the long tracks.

However, quite happy getting a 10th off my PB here and there, and doing track/car combo's I've never tried before. I've done a lot. I've also done a fair bit of hotlapping too, which is a great way of telling how slow I am!

Also happy racing against people of all skills, from basic beginners to the aliens. I'm experienced enough to know that I can still learn lines, braking points, etc, from the faster people, but that if I only race against the aliens then I'll basically get left behind by turn 2 (don't learn much about T1 as everyone trying to avoid hitting each other, and usually not hitting their normal braking spot or taking their normal lines), and if you end up racing only much faster people, then you leave; who wants to have their noses rubbed in it all the time?

This is made worse by the fact that the faster racers do tend to have better ratings, etc., which entitles them to faster cars. I realise that this is part of your server strategy, but when you're already a few seconds slower if you had the same car, can get demoralising very quick when you're racing in a xfg when they're racing in a fxr.

I know. I know. We're racing in different classes, so we're not really racing each other. But I'm not a league racer used to this sort of thing; I'm an average LFS racer who sees that if the races were any longer than a few laps, I'd be getting lapped. Not good for your self-esteem. Who wants that?

Quote from EQ Worry :

.... Change config, maybe to allow faster and more sought for cars (GTL, GT2, GTR)? ..

As an average LFS racer, I probably don't know about all these fancy restricted classes (which are probably used more in leagues and specialist team servers), and so have little idea on how to set the car up for them (number of times I've been spec'ed for not having a restriction on the car I've chosen). I don't want to have to read a lot of blurb in a !info or !help file, or whatever, to find out what I need to do. I just want to get on the track.

Much better having a race were everyone has only a choice of one car in a class, such as TBO, RWD, FWD, GTR, UFR/XFR, XFG/XRG, where there's not a lot of difference and where (for an average racer) the (percieved) better handling of one car might make up for the speed of another car (which for me would be preferring XFG to XRG, FXR to FZR, or RB4 to XRT).

OK, so in the same car, the aliens will still disappear up the road, but, there's always the chance that they tangle, or make a mistake, and for a short while I can keep up with them, and see what they do. Anyway, meanwhile, if I'm lucky, I'm still racing with the other average racers.

Server admin: for me not too big a deal. A lot of stuff that annoy most user is automated now (swearing, driving wrong way, etc), so unless anyone really being a nuisance (and the majority can vote to kick) then an admin may not even be needed on site. Maybe will need somewhere/someone you can send replays for people who are repeatedly misbehaving (maybe this forum thread?) so they can be banned for whatever period deemed warranted.

I think another problem you're fighting against (as well as apathy?) is choice.

Renting (or providing your own) server is very cheap and easy now compared to few years back. For less than £5 a month, you can have a server configured how you want. You want only drifting; easy. Only cruise; a doddle. You want an InSim with that (LFSLapper, Airio, both, your own home made, none); simple. You want to only drive your favourite car/track combo; easypeasy. You only want your own team or league; done.

I know, as I have a server. Has 47 slots and a heavily customised (most of it by me) popular insim. Unfortunately, almost always empty, and as I don't want to race on an empty server, I sometimes go elsewhere (usually CAD as the layouts tend to average out skills of racers, and everyone normally racing the same class of car).

The future?

I really don't know.

I'm in my fifties, have had fair bit of "disposable" income, so have been able to afford various car games. Some of them I've liked (GTR2, etc), but I always come back to LFS. Partly because only need an S2 license to get on any public server (don't need specific car or track mod), and we all have (basically) the same machinery to race with (sets and talent not withstanding!).

I also like it as over the years, I've played with one of the popular insim's available, customising it and making things for both myself and for the community.

As for what to do with your server?

I think you'll find it a great experiment. Unfortunately, I think the only thing to be learned is whether choice, apathy or both now rules.

I belive everything's fine on the paper... but the only thing the server needs to get active is a few regulars who race several hours a day in order to keep a strong position in the server list. This might just be enough to make the server well known to people who do not visit the forums, then attract more regulars and "average users", and make the server popular on mid/long term.

But now, honestly, who would have any sort of interrest in hotlapping on an empty server, on an imposed combo, just for the sake of attracting more people? The answer does sound sad, but it is, more or less, no one. This is all the server need I belive, but we're stuck where we are if we can't find enough people of this kind. Just see about IHR and FM FOX Junkies, it began to work when they had strong individuals to populate the server at various times of the day. See how those servers died/had a massive interrest drop when the regulars stopped showing up on regular basis.

Now my apologises, I do want to help but I'm not really keen of showing up and driving on my own for the point of attracting some people, with no promess of success even. If I'd suddently feel like driving I'd rather practice for my next event or just go offline hotlapping. Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm probably not the only one, this is the general feeling out there. I know this is sad... but what can we do about it

I'd love to do some more public racing and I use to spend a lot of time on it for almost 3 years, but as real life goes I only have limited time for lfs and the leagues have been taking most of it lately. That said as admin if I join the server and I am alone to start with, I have limad rights which allows me to change the track to one I like more. I am not a fan of rotations, but I understand EQ's point to get a wider public, but I don't think he minds if an admin change the first combo when he joins.

As things were now, only team leaders had limad rights, but leaders are not always the most active members, so I thought that we could make the admin group bigger and by this maybe increase our chances...

Mmm, just tried to find the server (after a long layoff from LFS) but seems not to be up...

i would drive on it, maybe have races scheduled every certain hours? Maybe just eliminate the team aspect and make it optional>?

Make some use of the Race Calendar on the front page of LFSForum.

Well, we were thinking of a web interface, where you could track the upcoming races, register to them, join, see the current stats, profiles etc. but now I doubt it's worth it. However, I'd like to try something like that just to see if it's possible.