Replace the rally stages to hill climb events, this way you can make purpose built tracks add grand stands and make it much safer which in turn, can allow Pikes Peak type of performance allowable.

IMO Rally has only gone downhill since Group B and is basically dead they need something insane to spice it up, i Know you europeans like small girl cars with no power but this is soo much more extreme, cooler and more badass.

Sure its not PURE Rally but girl spec s2000 is as pure as a Barbie doll with make up, atleast this way you can see the sport survive.

How can you not like this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwOXNpo8btM

I'd say it's actually been quite exciting, and I love the current stages. Interesting you talk about it being a girlie sport right after you suggest making it safer...

Not that hillclimb is bad or anything, but I love rallying. Purpose-built stages get a big no from me, but I'll always be in favour of more stages and faster cars.

its girly because of the cars, im saying make it safer so the cars can have more power.

Pikes Peak doesn't get the publicity it use to, I wish it did.

Quote from Mustafur :

its girly because of the cars, im saying make it safer so the cars can have more power.

What's girlie about a car named 'fiesta?' Oh...

there's nothing feminine about driving flat out in 6th gear. on gravel. reguardless of engine size

Quote from dadge :

there's nothing feminine about driving flat out in 6th gear. on gravel. reguardless of engine size

Actually...

Quote from PMD9409 :

Actually...

Actually

I'm sorry but I think you lost this one kind sir. See, you said at 6th gear, however those do not have 6 gears. Notice how mine is specifically a 6 gear.




Click the smiley.

Quote from Mustafur :

its girly because of the cars, im saying make it safer so the cars can have more power.

Go watch a drag race?

Us europeans really are stupid with our fascination of skill. Bahh.

Group B card used. Next point please.

Quote from PMD9409 :

I'm sorry but I think you lost this one kind sir. See, you said at 6th gear, however those do not have 6 gears. Notice how mine is specifically a 6 gear.




Click the smiley.

did you know that there's different class mower races/ from push mowers right up to drag racing nitro mowers?

Quote from Lible :

Go watch a drag race?

Us europeans really are stupid with our fascination of skill. Bahh.

So your saying controlling a car with almost 4 times the power of a WRC car though gravel is easy?

Quote from dadge :

did you know that there's different class mower races/ from push mowers right up to drag racing nitro mowers?

Of course. The redneck in me wanted to build and race one a while back. However when trying to find which class I would want to race, I got bored of it. Instead got some friends together for the 24 hours of lemons. And yes that's how I spelled it.

Quote from Mustafur :

IMO Rally has only gone downhill since Group B

Group B only seemed as insane as it did because the cars looked out of control more through a lack of technology to create a stable platform to take racing and because the crowd would stand on the track which made the track look insanely narrow. But everyone has on their rose tinted glasses so won't admit to the fact that it generated just as much boring racing, although like old music you generally gloss over the shit parts for the more exciting parts.

The other thing that doesn't help (that S2000 will) is a lack of manufactures/teams. Last season was Ford and Citroen. At least now we're getting more manufactures/teams as S2000 makes it cheaper to compete, Ford, Mini and Citroen so far with Suzuki and VW looking to throw their hat into the ring soon. Plus the various small teams who can now afford to actually go racing thanks to S2000.

Of course Citroen still dominate with Loeb, so the results are slightly predictable, but hopefully with lower development costs we're more likely to see more challenges to the crown.

How is that not entertaining? What WRC needs is more media coverage, as I recall in the UK it is on one of the silly channels. The BBC stopped covering the sport 2-3 years ago which shows you how WRC and the FIA have failed to publicise it correctly.

You can say what you want but group b was popular and created epic crowds. The out of control feel is what made it soo popular in the first place.

Costs could be an issue but since the power can be regulated maybe use the 1.6 turbo engine f1 is planning to use and spec it. Allow teams to modifiy anything else.

Quote from P5YcHoM4N :

The other thing that doesn't help (that S2000 will) is a lack of manufactures/teams. Last season was Ford and Citroen. At least now we're getting more manufactures/teams as S2000 makes it cheaper to compete, Ford, Mini and Citroen so far with Suzuki and VW looking to throw their hat into the ring soon. Plus the various small teams who can now afford to actually go racing thanks to S2000.[quote]

Excellent points, and probably one of the reasons for the change (in addition to the whole slower thing).

[quote]Of course Citroen still dominate with Loeb, so the results are slightly predictable, but hopefully with lower development costs we're more likely to see more challenges to the crown.

IIRC Loeb only has one win, as does Hirvonen, and Ogier has two wins this season. IIRC.

[quote]How is that not entertaining? What WRC needs is more media coverage, as I recall in the UK it is on one of the silly channels. The BBC stopped covering the sport 2-3 years ago which shows you how WRC and the FIA have failed to publicise it correctly.[/QUOTE]

'Tis a shame, because this season has been phenomenal. Really exciting.

Quote from P5YcHoM4N :

The other thing that doesn't help (that S2000 will) is a lack of manufactures/teams. Last season was Ford and Citroen. At least now we're getting more manufactures/teams as S2000 makes it cheaper to compete, Ford, Mini and Citroen so far with Suzuki and VW looking to throw their hat into the ring soon. Plus the various small teams who can now afford to actually go racing thanks to S2000.

But the "WRC kit" makes the cars more like S2000++ and more expensive than the standard S2000 cars. I wonder how much price difference (for a private team) there really is compared to the previous WRC cars.

Highlight reals don't cut it any more I'm afriad, atleast with a hill climb format live view is easily poosible combine that with a knockout stystem or somthing similar and you got some action.

Quote from MAGGOT :

Excellent points, and probably one of the reasons for the change (in addition to the whole slower thing).

Costs of racing have spiraled so much it has started to kill off top level sports. BTCC was really suffering but the latest regs have slashed them so much by having onesize fits all rolling chassis you can stick on your own body and engine.

Quote from MAGGOT :

IIRC Loeb only has one win, as does Hirvonen, and Ogier has two wins this season. IIRC.

I believe Loeb is in front by 7 points, which isn't much compared to previous rears.

Quote from MAGGOT :

'Tis a shame, because this season has been phenomenal. Really exciting.

I've not been able to catch much of it due to being on a shit channel. We don't even get a highlight show on a more accessible channel.

Quote from deggis :

But the "WRC kit" makes the cars more like S2000++ and more expensive than the standard S2000 cars. I wonder how much price difference (for a private team) there really is compared to the previous WRC cars.

IIRC, Citroen charge around 250k for a ready to race DS3. I have no price for an old car though.

[edit: Just found this. "Must be for sale at a maximum price of €168,000."]

Quote from Mustafur :

Highlight reals don't cut it any more I'm afriad, atleast with a hill climb format live view is easily poosible combine that with a knockout stystem or somthing similar and you got some action.

thats not rallying, hill climbing exists allready and if it was so great for tv coverage it would be a major world wide motorsport with full network coverage but it isn't.



and anyway who says the current cars are slow? stage times are faster than the days of group B due to the extra speed through the corners.

if you really want to get the magic back into rallying do away with the micky mouse short rallies we have today, bring back running all night etc and get rid of pace notes and reccies so it comes back to the driver who can best read the road and the co driver who can best read a map and judge what a stage will be like.

despite being welsh, the rally GB in wales is a good example of just how poor today's rallies are, when i started watching the RAC, it ran from sunday to wednesday and even on the spectator day run on sunday they covered more stage miles and road miles than they do in a full days running today. on the monday morning they'd leave HQ and not get back till tuesday night and go to scotland and back, now the manufacturers are complaining about this years welsh route because they have to drive from north to south wales and it's too long for them!!!!!


take a look at the IRC on eurosport, that's closer to old style world rally championships and has excellent tv coverage because they work with the tv company rather than just assuming tv companies want something they can cover from one location

slow as in power, handling is boring.

Quote from Mustafur :

Highlight reals don't cut it any more I'm afriad, atleast with a hill climb format live view is easily poosible combine that with a knockout stystem or somthing similar and you got some action.

live coverage is easly possible with any rally, just look at the IRC rounds, to suggest you make rallies single venue hill climb events is like saying bathhurst would be easier to cover if they held it on a go kart track and it ran for just 60 mins, oh and while we're at it to get bigger tv audiences hold it at 1am local time so it gets bigger world wide viewing figures

Quote from Mustafur :

slow as in power, handling is boring.

They aren't that slow. Blasting down a runway (assuming you changed gearing on the S2000 and GroupB to allow high top speeds) then a GroupB would probably come out tops. But that isn't what rally is about. Over the rough ground of a rally course, average speeds are much higher with S2000, but look a lot more controlled due to actually knowing how to build cars. If all you want is out of control and crashes, hit up some local novice rally stages.

Power does not mean fast. In fact quite the opposite in the world of rally.

balance is the key with rally imo. if you look at a gravel rally and then a tarmac rally, you'll see that in gravel, it's the torque of the engine that does the work. too much and it'll shred the tyres. not enough and it will not slide at the angles required to go fast on a loose surface.