Quote from Töki (HUN) :

Lewis Hamilton : I'll never be ... like Michael Schumacher

What a ****ing nonsense bullshit. When he had a bad race and drove like a bitch he blamed everyone else. Disgusting interviews lately, who does he think he is?! GTFO from F1!

Im sure if he was driving for the red team you would be saying the complete opposite.

Quote from Lotesdelere :

I have to disagree: the greatest battle in F1 history has been Arnoux vs Villeneuve in Dijon:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-17994254184349724

yeah i don't think you will get better then that.

Mustafur, Hamilton wasn't on the side not even close.

This pretty much proves it; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=792MUYg_aco (1:40)

I also have included a picture taken from Häkkinen's car so you can see that he was exactly at the same position. Had Häkkinen kept going it would've resulted exactly the same way. The only reason Hamilton is few inches in front when compared to Häkkinen is that he kept going until the hit, Häkkinen didn't.

Looks similar to me. In both cases the car in front is at fault. It's a straight, there is no right to any apex or "less than half overlap and lead car can push people of the track" rule. Even a tyre beside a tyre is overlap, should have closed the gap properly, and earlier.

Quote from Mustafur :

What should HAVE happened:

Hamilton - Webber = Hamiltons fault but still classed as racing incident

Hamilton - Button = Buttons fault Given a drive through(no matter what bias trolls like tristan say, its not possible to think about whether the driver in front can see you while trying to make a pass in the wet when you clearly had it done).

Button - Alonso = Alonsos fault no further action(the retirement is enough)

Quote from Mustafur :

Maybe he should stick to club racing and dominate the ''soo called championship'' where hes car is atleast 3-5 seconds a lap faster, oh wait.......

Why is it not possible to consider what the other driver can see? Even at my level we realise the car in front, in the wet, probably can't see anything in his mirrors. At professional level FFord, F3, GP2, F2, GP3, Formula Renault etc they do as well. Why do F1 drivers suddenly lack the ability to consider the same thing?

If you actually pay attention to my racing you'll see that it's an awful lot closer than that. If I'm lucky I have a 0.2-0.3 second advantage in the race. But as I engineer the car myself and drive it myself, surely the aim is to be quicker/better than the rest?

Quote from tristancliffe :

Why is it not possible to consider what the other driver can see? Even at my level we realise the car in front, in the wet, probably can't see anything in his mirrors. At professional level FFord, F3, GP2, F2, GP3, Formula Renault etc they do as well. Why do F1 drivers suddenly lack the ability to consider the same thing?

If you actually pay attention to my racing you'll see that it's an awful lot closer than that. If I'm lucky I have a 0.2-0.3 second advantage in the race. But as I engineer the car myself and drive it myself, surely the aim is to be quicker/better than the rest?

considering how far up Hamilton was on Button i think it would of easily been expected for Hamilton to assume Button could see him.

Hamilton only just had overlap. Bearing in mind even at F3 speeds (<150mph) you can't see your own bodywork in the mirrors with that level of circuit water, I don't see how he could be expected to see exactly where Lewis was if he could see him at all.

I know it's easy to assume the mirrors are always easy to see 'through', but trust me, single seater mirrors are not far from useless after the slightest hint of spray.

Quote from Juzaa :

Mustafur, Hamilton wasn't on the side not even close.

This pretty much proves it; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=792MUYg_aco (1:40)

I also have included a picture taken from Häkkinen's car so you can see that he was exactly at the same position. Had Häkkinen kept going it would've resulted exactly the same way. The only reason Hamilton is few inches in front when compared to Häkkinen is that he kept going until the hit, Häkkinen didn't.

its different has there wasn't enough room to begin with for hakkinen so he didnt commit(he let go of the throttle before he got along side him), Hamilton was a tyre space ahead but then fell back a bit once he knew button was just going to come across regardless.

Quote from Mustafur :

Im sure if he was driving for the red team you would be saying the complete opposite.

No matter what he drives, he won't change...

Quote from Juzaa :

Mustafur, Hamilton wasn't on the side not even close.

This pretty much proves it; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=792MUYg_aco (1:40)

I also have included a picture taken from Häkkinen's car so you can see that he was exactly at the same position. Had Häkkinen kept going it would've resulted exactly the same way. The only reason Hamilton is few inches in front when compared to Häkkinen is that he kept going until the hit, Häkkinen didn't.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCakp0zK2rM

he had him on the side before Button cut across him, in the Hakkinen incident Schumacher cut across before hakkinen got along side him.

I think you'll find Button did the exact same move to schumacher that hamilton did to him later in the race, except schumacher didn't push him into the pitwall. I was laughing hard at Lauda's comments, guy sounds like he's losing his marbles.

Watch 0:15 a couple of times and you can see Button move in that typically blocking kind of way.
I think he saw him coming, he must have seen him getting out of the chicane much more quickly, but I guess we'll never know.

Quote from Mustafur :

its different has there wasn't enough room to begin with for hakkinen so he didnt commit(he let go of the throttle before he got along side him), Hamilton was a tyre space ahead but then fell back a bit once he knew button was just going to come across regardless.

Did you watch the video? When Häkkinen begins his attempt there is enough room. Schumacher closes the opening when his rear tires are in the same line as Häkkinen's front tires. Exactly in the same position as Button has his tires with Hamilton. Schumacher and Button neither drove straight but instead drove closer and closer to the side to block the attempt. Both Häkkinen and Hamilton saw an opening and went for it but when the opening closed Häkkinen let go of the throttle and Hamilton didn't. That's the only difference. When häkkinen let go of the throttle he had room to push forward like Hamilton did. He didn't do it because he knew how it would end.

Also I don't see Hamilton falling back at all before he hits Button so I don't know what you're talking about.

its not the same at all, Hakkinen didn't commit he was letting go of the throttle before he went along the inside, Hamilton didn't but just before contact hamilton let go of the throttle: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1WuWu8kGak

is completely different to: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCakp0zK2rM
for that reason.

No one will be able to persuade anyone else to change their opinion on whose fault these incidents are, so you're all going to waste the best part of a week in an exercise in futility.

There is one interesting comparison to the Hakkinen - Schumacher move and it's not about blame: Hakkinen lived to fight another day.

Hamilton seems to be a bit like a person stepping infront of a bus on a zebra crossing. It may well be your right of way, but there's no point being right about that sort of thing from a hospital bed.

I blame Juan Pablo Montoya for all the incidents this weekend.

Quote from Mustafur :

its not the same at all, Hakkinen didn't commit he was letting go of the throttle before he went along the inside, Hamilton didn't but just before contact hamilton let go of the throttle: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1WuWu8kGak

is completely different to: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCakp0zK2rM
for that reason.

Häkkinen was inside, their tires were alongside. He let go of the throttle after pushing himself inside. (possibly used his brakes a bit)
I now see Hamilton releasing the throttle but only fraction of a second before the collision where he was already doomed. I'm not blaming Hamilton, it was a racing incident and not many drivers would've done the same thing as Häkkinen.

All I'm saying is that the drivers in front both drove exactly the same and neither deserved nor got a penalty for their move. Now that it's Hamilton who never lets go, not even if the fate of the universe depended on it, there was only one way for it to end and in my books it's a racing accident.

Quote from Juzaa :

Häkkinen was inside, their tires were alongside. He let go of the throttle after pushing himself inside. (possibly used his brakes a bit)
I now see Hamilton releasing the throttle but only fraction of a second before the collision where he was already doomed. I'm not blaming Hamilton, it was a racing incident and not many drivers would've done the same thing as Häkkinen.

All I'm saying is that the drivers in front both drove exactly the same and neither deserved nor got a penalty for their move. Now that it's Hamilton who never lets go, not even if the fate of the universe depended on it, there was only one way for it to end and in my books it's a racing accident.

The straights are for passing. The only thing that gives Button any leeway is that the racing line goes basically where he drove, so he can say it was not a block or a belated defensive move.

On a straight you cannot move across on a car if it has even the slightest overlap, it's a lethal thing to do, but the car you move across on can let you spin yourself off into the wall if you're that mental. Hamilton shouldn't have been doomed. Other drivers could see similar moves coming in worse spray.

Watch the video above and tell me Button doesn't move at the moment Hamilton moves.

Coincidence? Maybe.

There was arguably more room when Hamilton went on the inside, Schumacher went across before Hakkinen went in, and Hakkinen just went in the inside because he didn't want to brake and keep momentum, it wasn't exactly a go at an overtake as he already had let go of the throttle before going on the inside.

Hamilton's move was a pure committed overtake but was cut across by button, thats the difference, he looked like he was a bit further back from letting go right before collision as hes Tyre was ahead of buttons before that stage, he clearly had the line.

Quote from sinbad :

The straights are for passing. The only thing that gives Button any leeway is that the racing line goes basically where he drove, so he can say it was not a block or a belated defensive move.

On a straight you cannot move across on a car if it has even the slightest overlap, it's a lethal thing to do, but the car you move across on can let you spin yourself off into the wall if you're that mental. Hamilton shouldn't have been doomed. Other drivers could see similar moves coming in worse spray.

Watch the video above and tell me Button doesn't move at the moment Hamilton moves.

Coincidence? Maybe.

Watch the video I posted from above the situation and you'll see that Button didn't change his direction more than just a bit. A bit but not so that it would've changed the situation. From Hamilton's point of view it looks much more than it in fact is. I also think that he was allowed to block the attempt like that. You are allowed to change your line once and Button did it according to the book.

''On a straight you cannot move across on a car if it has even the slightest overlap'' Why is it then that I've seen drivers getting pushed to grass, pushed to cutting corners, and pure blocking attempts like this one and I don't remember any time when it would've resulted in a penalty in F1? Maybe because it's allowed?

If the other driver is clearly side by side you can't block him but if he's not even near your ''door'' you have the advantage and don't have to give him any room. That's the way I have understood the rules and that's the way it has been judged as long as I can remember. Hamilton was so behind that he hadn't ''earned'' the room and didn't get any.

And Mustafur, had Häkkinen kept going his tire would've been in front of Schumacher's when they would've hit.

Quote from Juzaa :

I strongly believe that Button had the right to maintain his line and Lewis was supposed to let go of the gas. No penalties for neither which is good.

I have a clip for you of the greatest battle in F1 history. Schumacher vs Häkkinen in Spa. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1WuWu8kGak

Hamilton was a lot more alongside and for longer than mika was there. Schumacher did that defending move in one move from left to right when button kind of stopped and left a gap there. Hamilton had his front tire in front of buttons and with the tight squeeze button put on him hamilton could not even back anymore.

I don't believe for a second that if you don't see someone you can drive into him because you didn't see he was there. It's more of a common sense thing. If you don't see in some direction you can't drive into that direction because you can see what is there. Or if there is anything. Button maybe didn't see hamilton just before the hit but he sure knew to expect hamilton to go there

I think hamilton drives aggressively and I like the way he goes for a gap that is there. Sometimes his drives are a bit desperate but you got to remember that he is now about 120000 points behind vettel so he absolutely needs to beat vettel in every race or he won't have even a tiny chance to win dwc. While button's race was really great I'm sure hamilton would have win this had he not tangled with button.

Quote from Juzaa :

Häkkinen was inside, their tires were alongside. He let go of the throttle after pushing himself inside. (possibly used his brakes a bit)
I now see Hamilton releasing the throttle but only fraction of a second before the collision where he was already doomed. I'm not blaming Hamilton, it was a racing incident and not many drivers would've done the same thing as Häkkinen.

All I'm saying is that the drivers in front both drove exactly the same and neither deserved nor got a penalty for their move. Now that it's Hamilton who never lets go, not even if the fate of the universe depended on it, there was only one way for it to end and in my books it's a racing accident.

Hamilton never lets go?
Watch it again, he lifted off before they touch, had he kept his foot in it would have been BOTH McLaren crashing out of the GP...

It was neither guy's fault, Button (arguably) was on the racing line and he claims he couldn't see anything from his mirrors because of the spray. And Lewis was legitimately trying to pass down the inside, but unfortunately the racing line on the start/finish straight wasn't straight.

What a stupid thing to say, you think that you can just crash someone into a wall when they're beside you just because you want to take your line, your full of shit and know **** all about racing. I know for a fact if the cars had been reversed hamilton would have been strung up by his bollocks for being too agressive and not paying attention to where other cars are, just proves hamilton is treated unfairly by the stewards and people that should know better.

Quote from pearcy_2k7 :

I know for a fact if the cars had been reversed hamilton would have been strung up by his bollocks for being too agressive and not paying attention to where other cars are, just proves hamilton is treated unfairly by the stewards and people that should know better.

How do you know this for a fact?

Racing rules say that you can choose your racing line once on the straight. Button chose the middle so it was his fault to change it to outer line at the end of the straight. I cant see any Hamilton's fault this time.