I was surprised at the timing of the announcement because I thought the TWG meeting was going to make the decision. In some ways it makes more sense if it's a foregone conclusion, and gives the teams longer to make adjustments. No word that Hispania made the complaint they were posturing either.
The other deciding factor may be the record lap times they are setting in Canada despite all of the regs to supposedly slow them down.
Too bad. The renault sounds pretty awesome going into turns. Prapraprapra!
I don't remember where I read it but on some site it was said that it is "stupid" to burn more fuel on an f1 car despite its "efforts to be more green". If fia is so much about going green they might as well ban wings on the car because they add drag. I can understand that banning of off-throttle engine overrun on cost reasons but the "fuel usage" reasoning is just bs imho.
I think that's pretty "optimistic". Getting something wrong on an f1 can set it on fire. Like kovalainen's lotus last year. The renault's exhaust isn't really any more unsafe than the conventional exhausts. Plus the renault has passed the same crash tests as the rest. Surely the fia would not have allowed them to race if there were some clear risks with that exhaust configuration.
I think the green issue is a red herring. FIA want to slow them down, and the blown diffusers allow incredible medium and low speed cornering grip that something has to be done. The ruling is about driver controlled aero devices, and keeping the throttle open to keep the diffuser active falls under this rule. Canada is telling because the teams run much less downforce, but even now, they are going much quicker.
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by Töki (HUN) : wrong thread, lol
I think the drs is the reason why they are so much quicker in canada. Not the exhaust blown diffusers.
And the hot blown diffuser does not really give incredible grip on slow and medium fast corners. It is kind of typical f1 innovation. Very expensive and complex. But not something that gives incredible anything.
It is said that the hot blown diffusers make the car 0.5-1 second faster in hotlaps. In race condition the effect isn't that big since they need to think about fuel consumption. The only way to keep the hot blown diffusers up and running where you need them (in corners) is to burn lots of fuel only to give you some downforce. That's why you can't use them much for your advance in races and most likely why Red Bull has so amazing qualifying times and yet in races they always seem to slow down when compared to other teams.
For example in Malaysia every 10 kg fuel affects your lap time for 0.45 seconds. I don't know how much the hot blown diffusers use fuel but when considering the consumption for 300km race what may seem a small amount per kilometer at first can turn into quite a huge amount of weight.
I wonder if the teams add a bit of fuel just for this 'boost' during races. Then, as long as they've saved the correct amount of fuel, they have 3 - 5 laps of qualifying exhaust boost available that they can use for blistering outlaps or to make that difficult pass etc. As the RedBulls have a several tenth qualifying advantage it would make sense to have some of that available during the race.
Vettel seems to pull a few seconds lead after the first laps in every race and then slow down to about the same speed as the others. I believe he's using most of his ''extra fuel'' in the beginning of the race to pull a gap long enough to prevent other's use DRS and I'm quite certain we'll see that in today's race too.
Well they also say renault's engine is more fuel efficient than the rest. So on start of the race they can be lighter or weigh the same as the next guy and have some extra for the diffuser. Plus if they are quicker with the hot blown diffuser it might be worth it to have more fuel onboard just for it and use it throughout the race if and when the only limiting factor is the engine and its durability. If that is even a limiting factor.
Of course renault's fuel efficiency is offset by its power deficit...
It is also worth remembering that if they aren't using it then the car also becomes harder to drive because you have suddenly less downforce when you come off the throttle which can make the car harder to drive. I'd imagine especially renault being sensitive to it.
But that is the whole point of the ban. The teams are suspected of opening the throttle wide in the corners and burning fuel in the exhaust. There is no extra power produced from the engine due to the ignition being severely retarded. The high velocity, and rapidly expanding hot exhaust gases at the rear of the diffuser creates the low pressure to produce the downforce. Done properly, the balance will be maintained.
I understand the concept. I was simply stating what happens when you "turn it off" in the middle of the race. And the fia decision will actually achieve just that. What the fia is banning is not the (hot) blown diffuser concept but the off-throttle use of blown diffusers: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/92236
I have not read about anyone calling it unsafe though. The fia seems to think (!) that it is effectively an active aerodynamic device:
"An exhaust system is there for the purpose of exhausting gasses from the engine and when you're off-throttle, it isn't doing that any more. Therefore it's being used to influence the aerodynamic characteristics of the car. We think arguably, this infringes Article 3.15 of the technical regulations."
If safety was an issue the fia should either ban the concept of blowing exhaust gasses under the car or force them to use it throughout the race.
That wasn't necessarily directed at you, but more to sumarise for those that haven't read up on it
The motivations seem a little obscure. The top speeds are much higher than perhaps the FIA had hoped for. F1 teams will always push the boundaries with technological advances, but maybe they have overstepped even the expectations. They will be banning the blown diffusers completely next year with the exhaust dimension regs, but to completely ban it mid season could have a deleterious effect on those cars that have had their floor specifically designed to rely on it, and therefore make them fundamentally unsafe. we may not get the full story however.
Edit:
If my understanding of the statement so far is correct, Charlie Whiting wants to limit the boundaries of the engine mapping which would effectively eliminate the "off throttle" effect gained with retarded ignition.
not sure how much difference it makes with the new exhaust rule they want to apply as well... something along the lines of "the pipe must exit behind the rear axle and wing"... can't force exhaust over the wing if the pipe goes directly past the wing.
Yes, sorry I should have been more specific. The engine mapping ruling is the easiest to apply now without drastically affecting the aero of the teams that have designed floors for blown diffusers. They will be allowed a maximum of 10% throttle to keep at least some aero effect, which I assume will not give any downforce advantage, and just maintain stability.
The exhaust dimensions for next year will remove any possibility of using exhausts in this way again. ie Exit behind rear axle and wing, circular cross section etc
It was interesting to note that comments were made by Brundle and Coulthard about Hiedfeld running into Kobyashi at the hairpin in Canada. One remark was that Hiedfeld was able to get in the throttle much earlier due to the blown diffuser on the Renault where the Sauber doesn't have this.
Edit:
I said elsewhere that I had a feeling the McLaren team were probably the least worried by these new rulings. Listening to the exhaust note, it seems to me they only used the blown diffuser during engine overrun under braking, not mid corner like the Renault powered teams. This will only affect their brake distances, and not mid corner stability, so I wait with baited breath to see how much closer they will be come Silverstone.
Renault seems to absolutely want the small useless turbo bicycle/skateboard engines for 2013. Personally I couldn't care less about them. If losing renault means we can still have proper engines in f1 then be it. If renault wants to have to road relevance in f1 then renault could start making road cars with high revving 2.4 litre V8s.
My feelings are neutral on the engine. But looking at the budget of Audi's Le Mans program, I think Renault might find LMS or ALMS to be better value for money.
A Renault LMP1 with a twin-scroll 2L engine would be an interesting addition to the mix. Or maybe they could go the diesel route...
The definition of "the red zone" isn't quite clear to me, but it is mentioned a lot in that article.
Does Caubet mean they have allocated the funding and are fully committed to 2013 (in the red financially) which if postponed until 2015 will break them? Or does he mean the internal board have been told that 2013 is the date, only to hear there will be a postponement and they are red faced now?
Anyone got a link to the exact proposed changes? I've tried to find something, but could only turn up speculation. Are four cylinders the only option? What about six? What about rotary? It seems like we will end up with a rule that makes only one engine layout available and would effectively ban innovation.
It all seems a bit messy right now. Indecision doesn't help anybody, and it seems the FIA are dithering over this as much as Bahrain. This particular issue could prove very costly for everyone involved.
I'm ambivalent about the new engines too, but concerned it is going to cause far too many problems if no clear decision is made soon. As a follower of F1 I'm thoroughly confused by the whole debate.
More likely I think it's just a point of no return. If the FIA doesn't implement the new engine rules for 2013, the board of Renault will probably cancel their F1 program entirely.
That's why I am not a support of the new engine formula. Martin Whimarsh said V6 would be the best compromise between performance, spectacle, and road-related technology.
As a button fan, I must admit it feels good to see rumours like this. Even after his 2009 Championship, people was still saying he isn't a worthy champion. But when the two biggest teams in Formula One want you to drive for them, you know you have proved the world wrong.
