Mexico and eleven other South American countries are suing the state of Georgia for passing anti-illegal immigration legislature. The law allows authorities to check the immigration status of criminal suspects who do not produce a valid ID and to detain and turn over to federal authorities those who are found to be in the country illegally. Unlike the Arizona law, Georgia's laws require only those who have already been arrested for another crime to prove citizenship. This is a reiteration of federal laws which are almost never upheld to their fullest extent and therefore do not correct the problems they were designed to address.

Currently georgia has the 7th largest illegal population in the US, with natural citizens subsidizing over 500,000 illegal immigrants. Georgians have complained that because of the high levels of illegal immigrants, they don't have the access to quality education, healthcare, and police protection that they would otherwise have, and have paid for with their tax dollars.
Mexico's statement: "Mexico respectfully submits that, if HB 87 is allowed to take effect, it will have a significant and long-lasting adverse impact on U.S.-Mexico bilateral relations, and on Mexican citizens and other people of Latin American descent present in Georgia."

Sounds to me like a veiled albeit very respectful threat that if the US doesn't allow South Americans to illegally cross our border, the war that has caused the deaths of more than 40,000 Mexicans will spill over onto the southern states; on the other hand it could be a message to Mexicans that despite the fact that the government has allowed and probably in many cases help raise the death toll, they're still looking out for their 'right' to come to the US, as the Mexican govt. has suggested they do in state sponsored publications.
I don't see why our borders are open at all at this point. Hundreds of people are dying every week in a real war just a few feet from our border. I don't know of any other country that would keep their border open to such a threat.
The fact that Mexico and the majority of South American governments are willing to challenge that we are breaking our own constitution by preventing illegal immigration and correcting the problems associated with it just drips with hypocrisy. They cannot solve any of their own domestic issues so they want to prevent us from solving ours because it benefits them that our immigration laws are too relaxed!

meh.

every day occurrence bro. It's hypocritical for you to get mad over such things as our country exerts such influence over local policy decisions around the world on a daily basis.

It may amount to nothing if no US judge allows the case to be tried, but it angers me that their objective is so obvious and the war going on in Mexico is so much bigger than this piss-ant lawsuit, it makes it look like their priority is to vilify the US rather than end what is essentially a civil war in their own country.

Quote from flymike91 :

Mexico and eleven other South American countries

Quote from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexico :

The United Mexican States, commonly known as Mexico, is a federal constitutional republic in North America

It's a bit difficult to lend credit to someone who can't determine which continent* their neighbour is in.

* Using the 6 or 7 continent model, of course.

I don't even understand how you make the jump from this lawsuit to the drug war. They are two separate issues that happen to involve the same country.

Personally I'm outraged that Canadians are allowed to cross our border with all their hockey riots and setting cars on fire.

Quote from amp88 :

It's a bit difficult to lend credit to someone who can't determine which continent* their neighbour is in.

* Using the 6 or 7 continent model, of course.

Isn't everything south of the border mexico? There's the mexican mexicans, and the cuban mexicans, and the brazilian mexicans, and THERE ALL TAKING ARE JOBS

Quote from flymike91 :

It may amount to nothing if no US judge allows the case to be tried, but it angers me that their objective is so obvious and the war going on in Mexico is so much bigger than this piss-ant lawsuit, it makes it look like their priority is to vilify the US rather than end what is essentially a civil war in their own country.

You mean the war fought with US-made weapons sold to them by our government?

ah America causes all pain and suffering in the world, I forgot.

Don't you thinks it's strange that Mexico would take the manpower out of prosecuting criminals to sue the United States for enforcing its own laws?

Wow, that thread laves me baffled.

Firstly, the lawyers that are involved in suing Georgia would most likely never have anything to do with prosecuting criminals.

Secondly, that argument works both ways: the state of Georgia is wasting manpower prosecuting people who are only guilty of being in a country illegally instead of catching real criminals. Of course I am well aware that illegal immigrants are more likely to turn criminal, but a) NOT all of them do, and b) many are forced into crime because they aren't allowed get a proper job and care for their families and themselves.

Also, and you might call me left-wing, or even communist for that, the proposed law is no way of stopping illegal immigration or the problems it brings. It's IMHO a much smarter move to make it easier for people to become "legal" immigrants and let them have legal jobs that pay taxes.
Or even better, invest in the countries they come from, so they have perspectives there and don't have to emmigrate.

It might suprise you, but the vast majority doesn't actually want to leave their home to exploit the rich countries. Most of them are forced to do so by "external" causes, like poverty, hunger, political repression, fear, lack of perspective, etc, paired with dubious promises made by facilitators.
I suggets the OP should spend a day in a place that helps immigrants and talks to people there.

And lastly, this fascist mindset angers me the most in america, because your very nation is founded on, and grew strong because immigration. Especially since the first european immigrants were a much greater and more real threat to the native population than any mexican or other latin-american immigrant can ever be.

Quote from flymike91 :

ah America causes all pain and suffering in the world, I forgot.

Don't you thinks it's strange that Mexico would take the manpower out of prosecuting criminals to sue the United States for enforcing its own laws?

well in this case it's pretty well documented exactly what is happening. we have a huge market for drugs and a lot of guns to supply.

And it is the ACLU and other organizations suing, not Mexico itself. Mexico and the other countries simply threw their weight behind the legal fight. Nothing unusual really.

Quote from ColeusRattus :

And lastly, this fascist mindset angers me the most in america, because your very nation is founded on, and grew strong because immigration. Especially since the first european immigrants were a much greater and more real threat to the native population than any mexican or other latin-american immigrant can ever be.

It's really not all that bad here... I mean there are always groups that get mad about these things, and of course the media focuses on them, but most of the world is at least as racist as the USA. Most countries have their own xenophobia problem.

Quote from flymike91 :

ah America causes all pain and suffering in the world, I forgot.

Try Googling "Operation Fast and Furious."

Quote from flymike91 :

Mexico and eleven other South American countries are suing the state of Georgia for passing anti-illegal immigration legislature. The law allows authorities to check the immigration status of criminal suspects who do not produce a valid ID and to detain and turn over to federal authorities those who are found to be in the country illegally. Unlike the Arizona law, Georgia's laws require only those who have already been arrested for another crime to prove citizenship. This is a reiteration of federal laws which are almost never upheld to their fullest extent and therefore do not correct the problems they were designed to address.

Currently georgia has the 7th largest illegal population in the US, with natural citizens subsidizing over 500,000 illegal immigrants. Georgians have complained that because of the high levels of illegal immigrants, they don't have the access to quality education, healthcare, and police protection that they would otherwise have, and have paid for with their tax dollars.
Mexico's statement: "Mexico respectfully submits that, if HB 87 is allowed to take effect, it will have a significant and long-lasting adverse impact on U.S.-Mexico bilateral relations, and on Mexican citizens and other people of Latin American descent present in Georgia."

Sounds to me like a veiled albeit very respectful threat that if the US doesn't allow South Americans to illegally cross our border, the war that has caused the deaths of more than 40,000 Mexicans will spill over onto the southern states; on the other hand it could be a message to Mexicans that despite the fact that the government has allowed and probably in many cases help raise the death toll, they're still looking out for their 'right' to come to the US, as the Mexican govt. has suggested they do in state sponsored publications.
I don't see why our borders are open at all at this point. Hundreds of people are dying every week in a real war just a few feet from our border. I don't know of any other country that would keep their border open to such a threat.
The fact that Mexico and the majority of South American governments are willing to challenge that we are breaking our own constitution by preventing illegal immigration and correcting the problems associated with it just drips with hypocrisy. They cannot solve any of their own domestic issues so they want to prevent us from solving ours because it benefits them that our immigration laws are too relaxed!

Your country was founded by war and immigrants and war shall be its downfall ( please, the sooner the better )


u mad bro ?

Quote from theirishnoob :

Your country was founded by war and immigrants and war shall be its downfall ( please, the sooner the better)

Uncool, bro.

harsh but true, enough country's had suffered by germanys hands for example and it was remoulded.

Next up for karma: britan america and the Soviet union ( well... providing they go to war with japan, again fingers crossed )

Quote from ColeusRattus :

Wow, that thread laves me baffled.

Quote :

Secondly, that argument works both ways: the state of Georgia is wasting manpower prosecuting people who are only guilty of being in a country illegally instead of catching real criminals. Of course I am well aware that illegal immigrants are more likely to turn criminal, but a) NOT all of them do, and b) many are forced into crime because they aren't allowed get a proper job and care for their families and themselves.

Why are Mexicans entitled to a job in the US? 10% of American citizens can't get a job. Would you agree that it is unsustainable to be soft on illegal immigration when there are not even enough jobs for people who paid into the system their entire lives?

Quote :

Also, and you might call me left-wing, or even communist for that, the proposed law is no way of stopping illegal immigration or the problems it brings. It's IMHO a much smarter move to make it easier for people to become "legal" immigrants and let them have legal jobs that pay taxes.
Or even better, invest in the countries they come from, so they have perspectives there and don't have to emmigrate.

I don't feel that compassion is communism, but what incentive is there for the majority of Americans to make it easier for immigrants become legal citizens? The impact on the job market, hospitals and especially schools is much worse than a potentially enlarged tax base (not even guaranteed increase in revenue because of the increased burden on entitlements and welfare) Don't you think that it is a symptom of giving too much away that hospitals are closing their doors to the very people who pay taxes and their medical bills to keep those services available to them?
Also, the US is one of if not the largest investor in Mexican business and industry, and American citizens give away more money than any other nation per capita, much of which goes to Mexico, including my own time and money. It is not the obligation of the US government or the nation as a whole to support the lives of illegal immigrants at the cost of their own standard of life, but private citizens often choose to give support out of their personal compassion, which is more equitable for Americans as a whole.

Quote :

It might suprise you, but the vast majority doesn't actually want to leave their home to exploit the rich countries. Most of them are forced to do so by "external" causes, like poverty, hunger, political repression, fear, lack of perspective, etc, paired with dubious promises made by facilitators.
I suggets the OP should spend a day in a place that helps immigrants and talks to people there.

I have spent a good amount of time in Mexico and believe me, Americans have far fewer rights and entitlements in Mexico than vice versa. No Mexican company would hire a non-specialist American (especially a non-spanish speaking one) because of high unemployment there, why would we operate any differently? I can't apply for welfare in Mexico, I would be laughed at! America did not cause Mexico to have rampant corruption in all branches of their government. Mexicans should be working to take power back from their governments and drug lords as is happening all over the world right now, the time is ripe for them to change their situation for themselves!

As far as supporting illegal immigrants, what it comes down to is this: How many more people do you think the US is obligated to support? 1 million? 20 million? Everyone? How long before we become the same as what they are trying to escape? And what have average American citizens done to deserve that fate?

I have a few questions I hope you can answer: Could Austria subsidize the lives of 20 million more people who don't pay taxes? Could your police control the influx of crime without going broke? Could your hospitals afford to give free treatment for all of those people without suffering in quality? Do you think parents would complain that their children aren't getting the education their tax money paid for if the schools were suddenly flooded with children who have never even heard a bavarian language?

Quote :

And lastly, this fascist mindset angers me the most in america, because your very nation is founded on, and grew strong because immigration. Especially since the first european immigrants were a much greater and more real threat to the native population than any mexican or other latin-american immigrant can ever be.

I think you have a very broad definition of fascism. What you don't understand is that at that time America desperately needed people to build a nation from scratch. Now that we have done that, our needs have changed and we can barely support the current population of natural citizens at the standard of living to which they have become accustomed, we don't need any more people. Is it so hard to believe that what a nation needed a century or more ago is not what it needs today?

Quote from flymike91 :

Sounds to me like a veiled albeit very respectful threat that if the US doesn't allow South Americans to illegally cross our border, the war that has caused the deaths of more than 40,000 Mexicans will spill over onto the southern states;

eerrr you are saying stupid things. The war is already there, the southern states have a lot of crimes. AND the 40k deaths Mexicans, 95% are bad guys.
And fyi Arizona is one of the worst states in the world in terms of security.
So, stop talking shit

It's all Spain's fault.

Quote from wheel4hummer :

It's all Spain's fault.

this!

Quote from chanoman315 :

eerrr you are saying stupid things. The war is already there, the southern states have a lot of crimes.
And fyi Arizona is one of the worst states in the world in terms of security.
So, stop talking shit

You're proving my point. Although I only suspected an increase in violence and kidnappings in AZ was due to the war in Mexico, now I'm sure that closing the border and increasing deportation rates would make the southern states safer for Americans.

Quote :

AND the 40k deaths Mexicans, 95% are bad guys.

I don't know to what extent your media is controlled by the government, but reports coming to the US are that at least two of the mass graves found in and around Tamaolipas were full of the bodies of 100+ civilians who were murdered by the Zetas for refusing to work for that drug cartel. There are obviously more mass graves yet to be found.

Quote from flymike91 :

You're proving my point. Although I only suspected an increase in violence and kidnappings in AZ was due to the war in Mexico, now I'm sure that closing the border and increasing deportation rates would make the southern states safer for Americans.

Arizona is a bad example for all this, seeing as they managed to shoot their own congresswoman in the head this year

To keep the discussion going, but my post short:

The main problem with those stated measures is that they don't solve the underlying problems. Heck, they don't even help ease the symptoms of the problems, all they do is making somebody else having to deal with them.

IMHO, before locking out immigrants, we should start researching why people do it and then start battling the causes for migration, rather than the immigrants themselves.

From the thread title I thought this was about a football friendly match.

Then I saw who posted it and assumed it was some thinly-veiled racist rant.

Then I read it, and gave myself a pat on the back.