Horner apprently was very angry with what webber said in the interview where he said he ignored it.
All this is going to do is add more fuel to the flame that webber isn't going to be at redbull next year,and quiet frankly I don't think another top driver would want to fill that spot either.
I wouldn't be surprised if marko says somthing highly stupid soon.
All this is going to do is add more fuel to the flame that webber isn't going to be at redbull next year,and quiet frankly I don't think another top driver would want to fill that spot either.
I wouldn't be surprised if marko says somthing highly stupid soon.
Pretty sweet GP. Couldnt watch it live, so had to do with a recording.
(Thanks Klaidas for ruining 1st place. "FERNANDOOO" on Facebook.
)
Anyway, awesome race as I said. Well done to Ferrari and Alonso. I'm sure the new diffuser/exhaust rules have helped them to achieve it, but I couldnt care less because I'm was getting quite sick of RBR and Vettel.
Speaking of RBR, douchebags. Webber needs to leave, and hopefully Hamilton now wont have to think twice when answering if he is moving to RBR - Preferably with a "No" ofcourse. And yes, I know team orders are allowed, but it doesnt mean I agree with them. Certainly not on round 9 of the championship.
McLaren, well.... Uhm... Stupid? That pit-stop was a mistake, but not fueling your drivers is retarded. I know all teams do it, but for petes sake, do it so he only has to turn down his engines and whatnot with a couple of laps to go, not 16 or something... What would have happened if they were in the lead? Bargh... A shame as well because the pace was there.
Anyways, good race.
(Thanks Klaidas for ruining 1st place. "FERNANDOOO" on Facebook.
)Anyway, awesome race as I said. Well done to Ferrari and Alonso. I'm sure the new diffuser/exhaust rules have helped them to achieve it, but I couldnt care less because I'm was getting quite sick of RBR and Vettel.
Speaking of RBR, douchebags. Webber needs to leave, and hopefully Hamilton now wont have to think twice when answering if he is moving to RBR - Preferably with a "No" ofcourse. And yes, I know team orders are allowed, but it doesnt mean I agree with them. Certainly not on round 9 of the championship.
McLaren, well.... Uhm... Stupid? That pit-stop was a mistake, but not fueling your drivers is retarded. I know all teams do it, but for petes sake, do it so he only has to turn down his engines and whatnot with a couple of laps to go, not 16 or something... What would have happened if they were in the lead? Bargh... A shame as well because the pace was there.
Anyways, good race.
I think the Mclarens rolled the dice and gambled, hoping/thinking there was going to be a bit more rain than there was. I know in the morning the forecast had predicted that there would be showers towards the last quarter of the race, and if so the pace would have dropped and maybe (guessing as I don't know the exact figures) make it too the end with a bit too spare at the end.
If it had rained, Mclaren could have pulled off a great strategic move, alas though, it didn't happen and they look a bit stupid.
Well, since rumours keep floating that Webber isn't staying with Red Bull, and that Hamilton isn't staying with McLaren suggest maybe a straight up driver switch. I'd welcome that anyday. I'd love to see Vettel against Hamilton in the same car!
IF Hamilton went to RedBull and beat Vettel that would be quite an insane record. Beating 3-reigning WDC in the same car... but only having 1 WDC for yourself.
Well he managed to rattle the cage of the un-rattleable (Alonso). He'll surely do it to Vettel given the chance.
You seem to forget that when Alonso and Hamilton battled neither won the championship. Both had the best car but due to their rivalry Räikkönen ended up as the champion. Hamilton won his only championship with Kovalainen his side because Kovalainen was a ''second driver'' and worked his ass off to help Hamilton. If Hamilton and Vettel are in the same team the result will be hard to see and we can't be certain which one will be better (no matter what you Hamilton fans think) but I dare say that should they be in a same team neither will win the championship. Vettel also has one advantage; he can be a part of building a winning car where Hamilton hasn't yet shown any skills in building a winning car. Like it or not but Drivers do have a major role in car development and Hamilton has so far only made Mclaren's car lose the edge they had when he came. (I predict that will happen to Red Bull also if Hamilton decides to move there)
If you have two drivers who race against each other and ''cannot lose'' to the other one it also means no setup sharing, no hints on how to drive hard corners etc. They also tend to do stupid moves to try and beat the other one. What every team needs is 2 fast drivers who co-operate since co-operating is beneficial to both drivers. Hamilton and Alonso didn't co-operate and look where it got them even though they had the best car under them. Hamilton and Kovalainen on the other hand co-operated and Hamilton won the championship with a car that was pretty much as good as Massa's Ferrari.
I believe Hamilton has only bad options now. His relations with Mclaren crew are getting worse (just listen to him when he answers to anything they tell him to do. He always answers with ''doing it already, shut the **** up'' tone and the message he says is pretty much the same.
With Red Bull he will be faced with quest to beat Vettel who I believe to be the fastest racer in the sport. His pressures would also be quite high since he'd be moving into a team that dominated the last year (and we've seen that Hamilton hasn't really driven well when he's had enormous pressures on him.
Ferrari is impossible since Santander and Alonso run the business there and Alonso will not let Hamilton in the same team again.
Mercedes might be good if Schumacher retires and Hamilton would have the chance to show his car developing skills to every one but it would require few years of hard work and Roseberg as a teammate who's so far dominated every teammate he's had. Even Michael Schumacher. Hamilton has clearly stated that he wants to win the championship now and to get in a winning team so Mercedes might not be good enough for him. (and he might not be the person Mercedes wants)
What complete, and utter nonsense. This is the kind of junk that gets thrown about in F1, and quite frankly it's silly talk.
I recall this is what everyone was saying in the 2008 pre-season tests when his McLaren had traction issues and people were worrying about Alonso's absence. However he went on to win the championship.
Or shall we go to 2009 when McLaren's designers built a car in excess of 2.5 off the pace. And not until Hamilton jumped in did they managed to get to winning ways within a season. SO taking a car that couldn't make Q2 in it's first race to winning... in ONE season. Vettel hasn't done that.
The TRUTH however is the the real areas of difference are the designers, and in that regards Vettel is lucky to have a certain Mr Newey designing his car. Unless of course you think Vettel designed the flexible front wing, and optimised Renault's blown diffuser design as well as the whole aero concept of the RB7.... haha dude... pppeeeerrrlllleeeaaassseee
Newey has a track record of designing cars that anyone could win in - Damon Hill, JV, Coulthard etc... That's the reality... not this 'driver can develop' a car BS.
No he didn't. He didn't point blank say Hamilton wouldn't join them in 2012. A lot of 'pretty slim to nil' (less than slim still represents an opening) and 'we are happy with our pairing' but nothing that's 100% firm like "We have confirmed Webber for 2012" though that likely is the case. The door is still open.
Hammo wouldn't work in Red Bull and even with Webber talking as though he doesn't want to be an RBR any more (he has to be ready to retire soon), they won't take Hammo because of how badly paired he was with Alonso. He gets on with Button, but that is because he knows give it a couple of years and Button will hang up his gloves too. To be honest he knows he'd be mad to leave McLaren as they are his team, much like RBR are Vettel's team.
Hammo is in one of the 3 teams likely to ever win the WDC/WCC, so if he can't get a seat at RBR, McLaren or Ferrari he has to start on the decent to back of the grid. He'll never do that. RBR have too many drivers waiting in the wings for a seat and Ferrari will never take him with Alonso there. It is never going to happen.
Hammo is in one of the 3 teams likely to ever win the WDC/WCC, so if he can't get a seat at RBR, McLaren or Ferrari he has to start on the decent to back of the grid. He'll never do that. RBR have too many drivers waiting in the wings for a seat and Ferrari will never take him with Alonso there. It is never going to happen.
Button is only 31, even if he retires at 38 or 39, which seems about the normal age for a successful F1 driver, he's still got seven or eight seasons left.
Button and Webber are in the same boat, they are in the best teams they'll ever be in, what is left now is to drop down the grid like Barrichello. They are both working on things outside of F1 because they know they won't have a seat for long and the way things are going this could be Webber's last season.
Did I say that drivers design a car by themselves? I simply stated that drivers have a part in designing the car. That is the truth. Drivers give the designers constant feedback about new parts they test, how the car handles and in which areas the driver feels the car should be improved the most. If the driver says ''the car is rubbish everywhere'' it doesn't do any good but if he says that ''our major problem is in the amount of downforce we get in the front'' the developers do have an idea on where to concentrate in developing the car.
Pre season tests tell nothing and many times teams hide their true power using only few parts that make it to the ''new car'' and just test many parts with older gear to see how it affects their speed with an old car since they don't have too many testing days and they want to know how the new part affects the total balance of the car. If you instantly put 50 new parts into a car and see that it's faster how can you be sure each part is better than the previous part?
Lewis was developing the 2009 car so if you were right that the car was complete failure don't you think Lewis and his ''requests'' about the car's behaviour might have had something to do with it? Designers don't drive the cars so they don't know how the car will behave. They can see stats about it's performance in the straight and have guesses about it's possible performance in the corners but without a driver to tell them how it behaves and how it should be altered the designers can't build a winning car.
And as we saw last week RBR was still faster than Mclaren with Mclaren's blown diffusers set to 50% and RBR's 10%. Flexible front wing is just bullshit and it hasn't been proved so it's quite ridiculous to come up with that. Mclaren had their F-tube and did it make Hamilton a champion?
Innovations tend to lead teams to few victories in the beginning but they always get copied quickly and do not have the same advantage over the whole season.
Newey's record of designing cars that can win is of cource great but as I said 80% of the drivers in F1 can win if they have clearly the best car. The differences aren't that big. Also note that Michael Schumacher has won the F1 championship in 3 different teams and that he did create Ferrari's dynasty alongside with Ross Brawn. As you see with Brawn and Mercedes GP even with the best car designers without the right drivers and the right crew behind you you can't win.
Please tell me how Räikkönen managed to make Ferrari so good after Massa got injured? Was it the car developers who were building the next year's car? Räikkönen could give them orders on how to adjust the car, without new parts, and the car got over a second faster with that. How do you explain that? Ferrari's car was designed for Massa and as soon as he got hurt Räikkönen could say how he wanted the car to handle and how it should be chanced and got immediate results.
If you still think drivers don't have anything to do with car development you must be out of your mind.
Juzaa you're getting mixed up between set-up of a car and the actual engineering development of a car.
Stick Hamilton in the RB5 from 2009 and you'd be looking at a 3x time WDC right now, and the same could be said for Alonso and even Button.
The RB7 fundamentally has more downforce, and that comes from the brain of Adrian Newey. If you think Vettel is instrumental in the design and development of that car you're sadly mistaken. There isn't a team on the grid that would take Vettel... or any driver for that matter over Newey.
The goal for engineers is more downforce less drag and then you have to fit in driver preferences around that.
Would the RB7 be a radically different car had Hamilton/Alonso/Kimi/Button been driving the earlier RB5/6... Somehow I very very very much doubt that.
It's just fanboy baloney that they think their driver can 'make the difference' in car development.
Stick Hamilton in the RB5 from 2009 and you'd be looking at a 3x time WDC right now, and the same could be said for Alonso and even Button.
The RB7 fundamentally has more downforce, and that comes from the brain of Adrian Newey. If you think Vettel is instrumental in the design and development of that car you're sadly mistaken. There isn't a team on the grid that would take Vettel... or any driver for that matter over Newey.
The goal for engineers is more downforce less drag and then you have to fit in driver preferences around that.
Would the RB7 be a radically different car had Hamilton/Alonso/Kimi/Button been driving the earlier RB5/6... Somehow I very very very much doubt that.
It's just fanboy baloney that they think their driver can 'make the difference' in car development.
Not Webber.
Constructive - though potentially controversial - posts otherwise, thanks
A while back (don't remember exact time) Mclaren brought new parts that in the paper should've made their car much faster. Results were exactly the opposite.
I don't talk about set-up and development differently because you can't know their difference from your couch or even if you were watching every race live unless every driver drives every car and gets to set it up the way they like it. For all we know RBR's car might be worse than Ferrari's car but Vettel is just a genious with set-ups and can transform the lousy car absolute beast with setups that are exactly perfect for him and that's why Webber has been so far away from him in most races. Nothing is black and white. Rubens Barrichello is 0.4 seconds faster than Jenson Button in Top Gear with exactly the same car so does that mean that Barrichello is a better driver? How come Button won the championship instead of Barrichello when they had the same car and we have proof that Barrichello is the faster one with similar gear?
Telling which way to go is as important as how you go there since if you don't have someone to point the way you might end up in the wrong way. If you are going slower than everyone else even the exactly right way to the finish line might not be enough.
Greybull, you are absolutely right. I forgot that Webber drove better than Rosberg in Williams 2006 Thank you for the correction.
Parts are frequently rejected on the track because they don't perform as hoped- thank the testing bans for that.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olDKNrKejVA&NR=1
Mark Webber not really happy with team orders after another hectic race :/
Mark Webber not really happy with team orders after another hectic race :/
Rubens ended up in Honda yes, but you forget that turned into Brawn..
There is still hope for drivers after knocking down a team or two down the pecking orders.Juzaa you clearly hate Hamilton, so don't bother commenting on anything about him. You fail, I said Hamilton rattled Alonso's cage (WHICH HE completely did. [Canada 07, Fuji 07]) I didn't say he won the '07 championship. And by implying that I did say that, shows you're too eager on jumping the gun to flame or play-down Hamiltons achievments.
At the same time he seems to understand that he is employed by RedBull to drive for them, if they say jump... he jumps. Which is correct imo.
Wonder how many other drivers would be as frank and honest about the situation as Webber? Even Hamilton seems to be behaving himself - notice he praised the team on the radio when he was thinking, and I was expecting him to say, "Un-frickin' believeable! Who decided on the fuel level?"
One thing I was wondering is why Redbull didn't tell Vettel to let Webber by if they so desperately didn't want them to crash into eachother. Webber was faster and therefore deserved it more than Vettel if there were going to be team orders... On top of that, Vettel's lead in the championship is massive so why not try to secure second for Webber as well. Make it a 1-2 for the WDC and a win in the WCC?
What if Vettel has a couple problems later in the year, and loses the championship by 2 points? The 3 point gap between 2nd and 3rd just cost him the championship.
Shock.
Horror.
Red Bull logic.
2011 Formula 1 Grand Prix of Great Britain
(161 posts, started )
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