Quote from Scawen :

1) People who post without even reading the first post. Prime example : "Shock, horror, OMG, WTF, I installed the patch and my controller buttons need reassigning!!!" when there is this exact warning in BOLD CAPITALS in the FIRST POST. How stupid is that? I propose that people who make a post without even looking at the first post, should be banned for 6 months.

2) People who post the most obvious and first thing that they think of, without reading the thread (or even checking the first post). It's a pity that someone can be so stupid not to realise that if they notice something obvious, then it's probably already been mentioned. I propose that people who post obvious things without reading the thread, should be banned for 3 months.


Those two points are going to have to be enforced somehow, because we end up with double and triple length threads of repeated information. We need to raise up the maturity level a bit on this forum - it has been going downhill again. And that's no good, the LFS Forum was never intended to be a kiddies playground.

First of all, good post!
Secondly, I haven't read all the posts till here.

I must admit, though, that I didn't expect my button settings to be erased as well, thus I wrote explicitly, that you should put a small warning that the patch will also erase your button bindings.

But generally, it isn't placed in an obvious position, as you can't expect from a tester who downloaded all patch versions, U6, U7, etc, to read the whole text again. I'm mostly reading the "Changes in TEST PATCH X123:", and I look over the rest and try to compare the graphical look from the text to what I have read before, in order to figure out which things might have changed. But maybe there are people who only read the list of changes. (even though I guess many ppl dont even read the version number lol ... OMG PÄTCH PÄTCH )

So, it would be nice (specially regarding accessibility and overview), to put ALL important info for a new patch into ONE list, and if there might be problems or known bugs, you can't put the font big and red enough. Some people wouldn't even notice it if it jumped out of the screen, directly onto their nose...
This generation is just oversensitized specially when talking about high saturation. Damn the TV

So, maybe it is a good idea to do the following from now on:

1.
make a new forum category only for threads about test patches and patches

2.
clearly seperate the "testing results"-threads from "congratulations I love the new patch"-threads. I'm specially thinking of the furure. Just imagine how it would look like in 2 years - impossible to find a bug report within all the "OMG I wanna marry you"-posts

3.
make the list of changes easier to understand also for people who don't have a good overview over longer posts, or who are just hyped up and just want the download link.

4.
REALLY important things in RED.

Quote from ORION :

4.
REALLY important things in RED.

BIG BOLD RED works best...
i admin the 1st Czech LFS League and i too had been put up to this... now i have made a sticky locked thread with all the important info and a second thread where people can discuss things... works flawlessly...

Quote :

I agree entirely. People who cant be bothered to read through a half a page of text is ridiculus.

As somebody who had an RTF-Post issue myself I can say that I did read the thread, but I either/and/or didn't understand the issue talked about until I experienced it or was overwhelmed with the information posted and didn't pick up on the issue I experienced.

It's not the end of the world however, Scawen hardly had to invest hours in dealing with my error.

It's not like the devs are tentative prima donna's. That's my job anyway . Whilst a certain amount of repetition is expected (heck, just read any of the posts i've been involved in lately and I find myself repeating myself at least a dozen times because you lot are too so damned thick!) I do understand your point - but we are all Human, and no amount of wishful thinking is going to change that... Personally I wish half of you where amoeba's, and the other half probably already are... !

There is a silly test section on the forums now....posts there gets mystically deleted

Re-title this thread "Don't be an idiot in the test patch threads" and then sticky it.

That should suffice.

ya.. what, what threw me off in the test patch as to why i repeated what was said, i looked at top of page and it was just like complete randomness in HUUGE posts so i just.. typed it out, i didnt even consider looking forward a page or 2 if it was going to be jibber jabber

its all in good nature scawen, we just dont want you to forget.. cough cough

If there were 2 or three other moderators (not Admins, mods) that would help the devs.

As for a set group of people with test patches, I think that having, say, 300 posts should be a requirement for posting in a test patch forum.

I'd rather put an anti-spam filter, blocking all users that begin with "tristan" and end with "cliffe"
just kidding

IMO those moderated threads suck. I posted an explaination in exactly this thread, but .... its not there... lol o_0

Quote from duke_toaster :

If there were 2 or three other moderators (not Admins, mods) that would help the devs.

As for a set group of people with test patches, I think that having, say, 300 posts should be a requirement for posting in a test patch forum.

Is that so you can get in?

Quote from duke_toaster :

If there were 2 or three other moderators (not Admins, mods) that would help the devs.

As for a set group of people with test patches, I think that having, say, 300 posts should be a requirement for posting in a test patch forum.

How would that be a valid requirement? One person makes 400 mostly nonsense posts, another person makes 20 insightfull posts. Who would you choose?

Quote from ORION :

I'd rather put an anti-spam filter, blocking all users that begin with "tristan" and end with "cliffe"
just kidding

IMO those moderated threads suck. I posted an explaination in exactly this thread, but .... its not there... lol o_0

/me withdraws the offer of a cookie from Orion.

Ha, now you're sorry aren't you

Quote from Chris_Kerry :

Is that so you can get in?

No.

Maybe if my post count was 301 would that be the case

Quote from joen :

How would that be a valid requirement? One person makes 400 mostly nonsense posts, another person makes 20 insightfull posts. Who would you choose?

Yeah, quite. I've been playing LFS since the first demo came out, and I know how it works and how the devs work, but I don't have hundreds of posts.

I get the feeling that the beta team idea has been scrapped with the emergence of the moderated test forum?

Maybe?

Quote from Chris_Kerry :

I get the feeling that the beta team idea has been scrapped with the emergence of the moderated test forum?

Maybe?

No decisions have been finalised. Members comments are being considered.

Quote from Gunn :

No decisions have been finalised. Members comments are being considered.

Oh Gunn, you are competent at this moderating lark aren't you, hehe!

Better to ask than to presume.

Quote from Chris_Kerry :

Better to ask than to presume.

Well said.

Quote from Yisc[NL] :

I like LFS as much as anyone else on the tracks and in this forum and that's why I want to place an idea here. Make a sticky post that contains a list with everything that is on the todo-list of the devs. In that way, people can clearly see what's to come, so they don't have to ask for it.

Good idea. This will only work, if this post/thread will be updated every week. Maybe this is possible? If the devs make this as a ritual once a week, this should cut some time in the forum.

My suggestion: What about an additional forum section for beta patches with strikter rules. There have to be a sticky post that only serious feedback is allowed. And of course people have to read the feedback of all posters and the patch instructions and limitations.

People don't read stickies, which an improvements to do list would most likely be. It's a common problem throughout all forums.

Post a sticky saying, "please read before posting" , and this often has the opposite effect.

But we wouldn't need to post in the to-do list It should be a closed thread that the devs edit whenever necessary. Everyone could read it and have their thoughts posted in another thread (if posted at all)

Quote from K.David :

But we wouldn't need to post in the to-do list It should be a closed thread that the devs edit whenever necessary. Everyone could read it and have their thoughts posted in another thread (if posted at all)

I think you are missing what I'm trying to say. If we sticky the "to-do" list people have mentioned, people are still likely not to read it and post repeated rubbish in the threads anyway!

Quote from Chris_Kerry :

People don't read stickies, which an improvements to do list would most likely be. It's a common problem throughout all forums.

Post a sticky saying, "please read before posting" , and this often has the opposite effect.

I don't know if that would be possible, but when a person views (or posts) a subforum like "improvement suggestions" the first time, you could display them the posting rules for e.g. 30 seconds before they can continue to post.

Or: If somebody ignores the rules and it is reported, the next time he visits the forum only a "You have sinned! Read the rules again!"-message will appear and he has to find and enter a secret word hidden in the rules to continue to the forum

Quote :

People who post without even reading the first post. Prime example : "Shock, horror, OMG, WTF, I installed the patch and my controller buttons need reassigning!!!" when there is this exact warning in BOLD CAPITALS in the FIRST POST.

I'm not being funny Scawen but if people do what you ask, and read the massive update release posts - do you honestly expect people to remember all of it?

When you release software you get one chance to impress the end user, and one chance only. If it doesn't work, you've blown it. Now as a developer who's sold the game before release you are in a privaleged position in that most of us will persevere a little and will still throw you another £12 in a year or so - dont mock us for being Human.

I understand your frustration, but it perpetuates throughout this forum in other threads too - i'm always repeating myself.

In fact come to think of it, i've already said that in this thread.

Becky

I dont think people expect people to remember everything from an entire thread but there were a few key points that scawen pointed out and I could tell from his post he was trying to minimise the amount of crap posted. Obviously the thread grew and grew and people just jumped to the last page and posted. I think some people are genuinely trying to help and to me it sometimes comes across as a race to see who can find bugs. It always going to happen though.

I check the forums everyday and post minimally and you can see certain individuals just continously posting shi-. The no speed showing in reverse and controls being reset were posted numerous times and were starting to pis- me off never mind Scawen!!

I think a private forum will be formed for testing purposes, this has good points and bad points but should significantly reduce the amount of spam when testing patches.

Becky, I understand your point but I quote Scawen from the U11 thread

Quote :

WARNING : your controls will not be correctly assigned due to the new way the controls are stored in a special file in the data\misc folder. There is a default file included for the Red Momo and the Microsoft FF Wheel so they should be reasonably set up if you have one of those. Maybe the DFP will have a reasonable setup as well as the default axes are basically Logitech style. Let me know.

Now you have to be blind to get to the link and not see that because the link is lower in the post. So let's recap. You are testing a TEST patch. The post where you got the link has a warning in big bold letters, but you skip that and download the patch. You get a problem when you run the patch. Is it OK to post saying that you haven't read the 7 PAGE thread but you have a problem that would make the game impossible to play (how do you play without controls?) without changing some settings? Isn't someone bound to have pointed it out by now? Shouldn't you check instead of wasting people's time?

By that logic, its OK to sue McDonalds for becoming fat like some kids did several years ago. Obviously they couldn't do simple maths:
You + burger is heavier than you.

EDIT: I think, Becky, you are refering to little slips that happen from time to time - missing the odd post when skim-reading or something like that - that don't really matter. Scawen said that he didn't have too much of a problem with those. The big problem lies where someone doesn't read the first post or think before they post.