Sounds like everyone is having fun.

Quote from Tuze :

If you've played or play iRacing, you would know this to be false. There're simply too many issues going wrong even with the old tire model. Go ahead, try all sort of stuff with cars that haven't been applied with the new tire model if you don't believe me.

Tell me what lfs car is better than some other similar iracing car.

I can see the potential in the new tyre model... That said, I can't think of anything in the sim genre that didn't have potential yet still miserably failed... I would love for someone to finally succeed, just to have something to point to and say "yes, this is how it's done"...

Anyway, is it just me or are there others struck by the irony that iRacing previewed the buggy NTM on E3 only to protect their image and now released this last build?

I believe they could have prevented the most part of uproar in the forums and ridicule on public sites (both completely justified) if they had been just a bit honest... Really, a "guys it's not quite right yet but we'll make sure to fix whatever problems arise in the coming weeks/months, but in the meantime enjoy what we have for you for now" would have turned the athmosphere completely around... Waiting five days to read, buried on page whatever, they knew the NTM still had problems (but working on it) is a glass of water onto a forest fire...

Quote from Hyperactive :

Tell me what lfs car is better than some other similar iracing car.

Not so much the car, but the physics. It was impossible to do a wheelspin with some cars (MX5, the OTM Skippy), so a proper drifting was impossible to do with MX5 for example.
I just tried the skippy on the skidpad and compared it to solstice, and the physics felt the same wheelspin wise. It's a big let down for me seeing there's no proper drifting possible on this sim yet..

For this reason alone, NetKar PRO and LFS feel alot more realistic to me. Granted the vintage is still not a complete car, but the rest of the cars feel good.

Quote from Hyperactive :

Tell me what lfs car is better than some other similar iracing car.

As far as what? The type of car? The weight of the car? The brand name of the car? Comparing a car isn't anything special, however comparing the physics and reactions to similar cars is a much better way of looking at things.

The Mustang and XRT have no comparison. Power, engine, and weight are all different.

The FZR and Ford GT are not 100% comparable either, but I'd rather drive the FZR and I hate it.

The Single seaters are non-comparable.

The XRR and C6R are some what comparable. In MoE we used a "GT0" class which had 600hp and a slightly bigger engine. I would take that XRR over the C6R any day. Sure the sound might not be the same, or the interior of the car, but this is a simulator, not a screenshot generator.


The two have very different track styles which result in different feelings with physics and FFB.

Quote from Hyperactive :

Tell me what lfs car is better than some other similar iracing car.

FO8 is better than the Star Mazda, for one. This is in terms of feel and physical realism (as in, more closely follows the laws of physics), particularly at the limit.

It's possible to instantly pitch the Star Mazda completely, 90 degrees sideways in T10 of VIR Full, and hold it there, before it suddenly snaps back in line. lolwut. I'd like to see someone try that in the FO8 without some seriously screwed up suspension.

There is absolutely no subtlety to the limit of the Star Mazda's tires. If you try to push the limit, you either understeer like hell or oversteer like hell, with no in-between. Then there are the crazy suspension settings. All the fast guys run the lowest damping settings possible. I find it hard to believe the lowest settings are realistically optimal. In real life, that's indicative of a shock that has the wrong valving.

Quote from PMD9409 :

As far as what? The type of car? The weight of the car? The brand name of the car? Comparing a car isn't anything special, however comparing the physics and reactions to similar cars is a much better way of looking at things.

Dunno, didn't really think that one through. Looking at the cars the actual comparison does seem to be much more complex than just comparing two gt cars or two singler seaters. Overall i kind of meant that every gt type car in iracing drives more realistically than xrr/fzr/fxr. Not saying perfect but good imho.

Of course it helps imho lfs a lot when the tracks are so silky smooth. There really aren't many type of kerbs, bumps and undulations to challenge the cars.

Quote from PMD9409 :

The XRR and C6R are some what comparable. In MoE we used a "GT0" class which had 600hp and a slightly bigger engine. I would take that XRR over the C6R any day. Sure the sound might not be the same, or the interior of the car, but this is a simulator, not a screenshot generator.

Would you say that xrr handling is more realistic than the iracing corvette? Because to me the gtr cars in lfs feel like they have grippy road tires instead of slicks.

Quote from Forbin :

FO8 is better than the Star Mazda, for one. This is in terms of feel and physical realism (as in, more closely follows the laws of physics), particularly at the limit.

I think the fmazda sucks in iracing. Haven't really driven it much but when I did drive it last time I found it just incredibly dull and odd. FO8 is differrent beast altogether. But imho nkpro does single seaters better.

After one year I just renewed my license for this month. Can anybody tell me some proper settings for my G25? I can't remember the ones I used to have...

In profiler I use 100 force feedback and 0 on the rest, with 270 deg rotation.

In game I use 4-7 force feedback and leave everything else alone, feels good to me.

About ffb

Quote :

The recent iRacing 2.0 build included a new feature to let you adjust the damping level on your force feedback wheel. Damping introduces a stabilizing force, feeling a bit like stirring a spoon in honey. This value used to be hard coded to 75, but now you can change the damping level from 0 (off) to 100 (full on). Due to a small bug, the level was reset to 0 for most of you in this new build, which may make the cars feel different than you expect when driving. iRacing recommends that you run your force feedback with damping turned down to 25 or below, as that gives a more precise feel while driving. But if you would like to restore the feel of the force feedback to the way it was before this recent build, you should return the damping to the old default of 75. You can find the new damping adjustment by clicking on Options while at the main screen, then selecting the Controls tab.

EDIT FOR IMPORTANT NOTE:
Thanks to member Colin MacLean for pointing out:

If the damping force was/is set to ZERO in the windows driver the in-game slider will have no effect as damping is turned off. If you previously had damping set to ZERO in the driver you always had damping off (zero) so in this build it will be no different. If you wish to use damping in this build you have to set the damping slider in the driver to 100 thereby enabling damping in the sim.

http://members.iracing.com/jforum/posts/list/1515569.page

Quote from Hyperactive :

Would you say that xrr handling is more realistic than the iracing corvette? Because to me the gtr cars in lfs feel like they have grippy road tires instead of slicks.

I'm guessing because of the slip angles? The tracks are smooth as glass so the tires will always be perfectly on the tarmac. However in iRacing there are so many bumps that can "anger" the tire when in a slide. This could cause the tire to slip more and end in an easier loss of grip and spin.

However the tire in LFS does react correctly when it comes to slip angles mixed with temperature and wear, something iRacing is not even close to grasping yet. The iRacing tires for the Corvette are probably closer to R4 tires in LFS, which are never used because they are run too cold, which however is what iRacing loves, which is wrong.

The Ford GT tires are more for a NASCAR type stock car instead of a GT car. The minimum tire pressure allowed in iRacing is 13psi higher than the recommended amount by michelin and dunlop. Looking through the GT setups in LFS however, my tires are near the recommended and some are a bit higher due to the tracks being faster (22-30psi).

Sometimes I would rather drive the rF Endu mod rather than driving the GT cars in iR.

Thanks guys, will give it a go!!

Quote from PMD9409 :

I'm guessing because of the slip angles?

Yeah but also the suspension and aero seem to be better in racing. The ground effects alone make the car react to bumps in very different manner than the lfs cars which do not simulate ground effects at all. I think the way lfs does very little compared to some other sims protects lfs from getting those small things wrong.

The gt1 corvette that is in iracing has the same tires as the gt2 and there was a driver interview where the drivers said the gt2 version likes to slide and move around more. So even with same tires the long list of small changes makes a huge difference
http://www.corvetteracing.com/ ... c6r/gt1-v-gt2-chart.shtml
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v ... =player_detailpage#t=134s

I have no idea how long stints did the tires do in the gt1 car nor do I know what tire pressures and what temps were they running.

Quote from PMD9409 :

However the tire in LFS does react correctly when it comes to slip angles mixed with temperature and wear, something iRacing is not even close to grasping yet. The iRacing tires for the Corvette are probably closer to R4 tires in LFS, which are never used because they are run too cold, which however is what iRacing loves, which is wrong.

I thought the real tires do warm up mainly because of the tire flex and the work that goes into the tires. In lfs the sliding warms up the tires. Most obvious example being the burnouts they do in drag racing. In lfs you'd heat the tires but in real life they just clean up the tires and put some rubber on the road.

Obviously the ntm is still too much of wip to say if they are going to make the tire temps meaningful at all. My guess is that they just put some safe numbers in just to get the stuff out of their hands. To be fixed later.

Quote from Hyperactive :

I think the way lfs does very little compared to some other sims protects lfs from getting those small things wrong.

So Scavier doesn't release half arsed stuff. That's why in the other thread we are saluting him.

Quote :

I thought the real tires do warm up mainly because of the tire flex and the work that goes into the tires. In lfs the sliding warms up the tires. Most obvious example being the burnouts they do in drag racing. In lfs you'd heat the tires but in real life they just clean up the tires and put some rubber on the road.

Yes, that also happens in NASCAR when we they swerving continously to get rid of the tire buildup. However they are also heating their tires to a more optimum temperature.

Quote :

Obviously the ntm is still too much of wip to say if they are going to make the tire temps meaningful at all. My guess is that they just put some safe numbers in just to get the stuff out of their hands. To be fixed later.

Well thats the problem, none of it is done. Giving us half the expected release isn't exactly the best way to go about things when you hype up something ridiculously.

Some people make changes in their lives harder than others.

I can only compare both sims by the feeling i get while driving. LFS used to be my adrenaline source when i first started it, with the years passing it became boring, passion was gone partly due to the spoiled kids that replaced the worthy community members and partly due to the fact that nothing new and exciting was released over time. Dont get me wrong im aware that open configs do make the racing more interesting but aint my top priority...

While LFS stopped giving me thrill anymore iR did replaced it, not because of the tracks, cars or safety ratings or whatever, generally speaking the adrenaline i used to feel before was back.

And just to get a bit on topic'ish... did spend whole day with the lmp car to try to understand the way it felt, drove and how tires reacted. At first i hated it, really... thought tires were replaced with sponges, like driving cold tires on a cold track. Then it all gradually grew on me and tbh while people trying to learn the way it works they will become better in controlling a car because you have to be so much smoother than before with all the phases - acceleration, cornering and braking.

Quote from ZanZi :

While LFS stopped giving me thrill anymore iR did replaced it, not because of the tracks, cars or safety ratings or whatever, generally speaking the adrenaline i used to feel before was back.

This is the same for me. I played many years with lot of fun LFS but at the end i missed the thrill.

The NTM feels very good on the Top oval cars.
The class b was really horrible to drive but feels now very nice , the trucks feels a bit better now and the class A NASCAR is also better to drive.
For the road racing it feels a bit better in the Skippy now but more under steering and less tricky (IMO).

well just to let you all know im now a class c

Quote from PMD9409 :

So Scavier doesn't release half arsed stuff. That's why in the other thread we are saluting him.

Actually scavier has released every aero dependant car very half arsedly. After all aero is very important part of gtr and single seater type cars and the correct ground clearence is the key for a good setup. Lfs completely misses that.

I understand what you trying to say but a gtr type car can not be simulated realistically without many aspects lfs is totally missing.

But isn't iracing doing the same thing even better? (joke incoming) They released their ntm so bare they left tire wear and tire heating out to not release the ntm half-arsed.

Quote from PMD9409 :

Well thats the problem, none of it is done. Giving us half the expected release isn't exactly the best way to go about things when you hype up something ridiculously.

Yeah I agree.

some parts of the NTM are good, if they could just sort the preasures / temps / wear out then i'd be pretty happy with it.

i was talking with a driver today and he pointed out that now you can feel the squirm in the tyres in the high speed corners at watkins glen in the LMP, what else was interesting is that someone was saying that in the skippy they're a bit slower on the NTM and couldn't get below 59s and then a certain driver from NZ who drives in a certain australian race series came in and completly blew everyone away with a 57s lap on his third lap which does tend to suggest that some real world drivers are picking up on steering feedback etc from the NTM that sim only drivers may be missing on.

whilst in no way near the standard of real world racers, the feel in particular is an improvement for me, i did a race at laguna in the LMP and on the run to T1 i could feel first one front wheel and then the other just starting to grab as i pushed the braking to the limit, by comparison i drove the DP after and it felt like there was no actual feedback from the tyres.

hopefully as this season progresses we'll get updates to the NTM on cars as they develope it, in the mean time i'm waiting for a powerfull road car to get the NTM, hopefully the vette, so we can do proper comparisons.

Quote from Hyperactive :

Actually scavier has released every aero dependant car very half arsedly. After all aero is very important part of gtr and single seater type cars and the correct ground clearence is the key for a good setup. Lfs completely misses that.

I understand what you trying to say but a gtr type car can not be simulated realistically without many aspects lfs is totally missing.

100% agreed on the aero in LFS. That's something that really bugs me. There's a way to change the "wedge" of air behind the car to decrease the "suck up" rate and increase the downforce on the front of the car. However my way of thinking is probably more fudge than realistic (I'm not 100% sure how the air reacts when leaving from underneath/side of the car.

Quote :

But isn't iracing doing the same thing even better? (joke incoming) They released their ntm so bare they left tire wear and tire heating out to not release the ntm half-arsed.

Well iRacing has a half-arsed tire and aero now, so no its not better.

Quote from tinvek :

some parts of the NTM are good, if they could just sort the preasures / temps / wear out then i'd be pretty happy with it.

i was talking with a driver today and he pointed out that now you can feel the squirm in the tyres in the high speed corners at watkins glen in the LMP, what else was interesting is that someone was saying that in the skippy they're a bit slower on the NTM and couldn't get below 59s and then a certain driver from NZ who drives in a certain australian race series came in and completly blew everyone away with a 57s lap on his third lap which does tend to suggest that some real world drivers are picking up on steering feedback etc from the NTM that sim only drivers may be missing on.

whilst in no way near the standard of real world racers, the feel in particular is an improvement for me, i did a race at laguna in the LMP and on the run to T1 i could feel first one front wheel and then the other just starting to grab as i pushed the braking to the limit, by comparison i drove the DP after and it felt like there was no actual feedback from the tyres.

hopefully as this season progresses we'll get updates to the NTM on cars as they develope it, in the mean time i'm waiting for a powerfull road car to get the NTM, hopefully the vette, so we can do proper comparisons.

Good post, can't agree more. I do get more feedback, and I do enjoy it (once I fixed the dampening). However after doing the top A oval race last night, I'm convinced something needs to be fixed rather quickly.

I thought the Mustang had the same tires as the skippy? Or was it Mustang and Solstice with the same tire?

So in conclusion, is the NTM worth giving a try by renewing my suscription?

It is good and bad I think, like said above, when the flaws are fixed it will be fine and atm it feels ok, if a bit understeery until the mad snap oversteer...

Is the Skippy any better now or is it still a piece of shit?

Quote from PMD9409 :

I thought the Mustang had the same tires as the skippy? Or was it Mustang and Solstice with the same tire?

It was Mustang and Solstice. I recall a third car but can not say which one. The problem is that along with NTM the cars are being change slightly here and there to prepare the cars for change from OTM to NTM, so I wouldn't expect to get both (three?) cars ready at the same time automatically.

Mustang, Solstice and the two MX-5s use the BFG R1 tire.