You'd be referring to momentum. However you're not taking into consideration the engine's inertia which keeps the tyres spinning during most of the motion (the clutch is engaged a little bit before the car comes to a stop). To be honest, the specific video seems perfectly normal to me, I've done much the same in a normal car with road tyres, it doesn't take much steering lock or actual speed as long as you get the rear tyres to lose traction.
You'd be referring to momentum. However you're not taking into consideration the engine's inertia which keeps the tyres spinning during most of the motion (the clutch is engaged a little bit before the car comes to a stop). To be honest, the specific video seems perfectly normal to me, I've done much the same in a normal car with road tyres, it doesn't take much steering lock or actual speed as long as you get the rear tyres to lose traction.
Going to try this on my phone, I was too tired last night to even think lol.
The steering is how Glenn said it. It is just the Ford GT which is what is so whacky. The real life video makes sense because it was a much more aggressive approach. Half the time you can drop the clutch in Iracing and the car doesn't even spin the tires. In the ford GT it can be interesting. It will spin the tires which is great. But the point is that at low speed the car is unable to regain grip. Even at speed, mainly have felt it so far in the oval cars, when you lose the rear off the exit, you are having to use half the straight to regain grip. It's a similar aspect that the otm had, but the beta did not.
Do a much more aggressive approach like that real video and you will see you are going to rotate over 270 degrees. You can even feel like ken block and do a 360.
Yeah I read it back after waking up and realized I was talking more about momentum. I'm not saying it isn't possible in real situations, because I know it is. The aspect I'm pointing out is how easy it is. If you be aggressive like the video bbt posted or how you would in your real car, you would be rotating over 270 degrees in Iracing. Just gotta try it to see.
Anyone have comments on the LFS replay of the same situation?
In Uni class making posts ftw
The steering is how Glenn said it. It is just the Ford GT which is what is so whacky. The real life video makes sense because it was a much more aggressive approach. Half the time you can drop the clutch in Iracing and the car doesn't even spin the tires. In the ford GT it can be interesting. It will spin the tires which is great. But the point is that at low speed the car is unable to regain grip. Even at speed, mainly have felt it so far in the oval cars, when you lose the rear off the exit, you are having to use half the straight to regain grip. It's a similar aspect that the otm had, but the beta did not.
Do a much more aggressive approach like that real video and you will see you are going to rotate over 270 degrees. You can even feel like ken block and do a 360.
Yeah I read it back after waking up and realized I was talking more about momentum. I'm not saying it isn't possible in real situations, because I know it is. The aspect I'm pointing out is how easy it is. If you be aggressive like the video bbt posted or how you would in your real car, you would be rotating over 270 degrees in Iracing. Just gotta try it to see.
Anyone have comments on the LFS replay of the same situation?
In Uni class making posts ftw
Wha??? The iR reply had the engine bouncing off the limiter at 100 throttle, instantly dropped the clutch, breifly let off, quickly blipped, then went completely off throttle. I don't know how I could try it "more aggressively" than that.
No I've been too lazy to watch it
Stay on the throttle a bit longer? To me that wasn't that aggressive at all. Just try it in iRacing and you will see what I am saying. When you barely try to spin it, it goes 180, but when you try to spin it like you would in a real car, you got 270+ degrees.
No wonder you haven't mentioned the radical difference then.
precisely how many times in your life have you had to spin a race specced ford gt around?
i agree with bbt it looks perfectly normal to me
i agree with bbt it looks perfectly normal to me
Yes. It's not the same situation.
Also, keep in mind the known problems with LFS's current tyre model - which actually tend to be highlighted in such situations.
Well what do I have to do to make it the same? Two mid/rear engined 500hp GT cars. Drop the clutch with full revs and throttle at 45 degree steering input. Once the car starts to rotate, quickly get off the throttle and straighten the wheel.
What am I missing? Situation seems to be the same, but with complete opposite results. If it is not the same, at least say why.
@shotglass: None, I own an Impreza. You guys are the experts it seems, that's why I am asking.
You need to remember that lfs and iracing most probably (I've not checked this) model the pedal/throttle/engine power output differently. I believe lfs has much more linear approach while iracing has more realistic unlinear relation. In other words all cars in lfs probably produce 10% power at 10% throttle, 50% power at 50% throttle and 100% at 100% while in iracing it's not that straight-forward as they at least claim they model the engine power vs. the throttle position based on real data which is not at least linear...
So 50% throttle in lfs is not the same as 50% throttle in iracing.
So 50% throttle in lfs is not the same as 50% throttle in iracing.
I know the brakes are like that, as they have a "brake curve" in the options. The throttle is like that too? Even if it is though, we are going from 100% to 0%, so what effect will it have on it?
The diffs needs to be set up the same for a good comparision. Preferably as tight (most locking power) as possible and preload at 0 as that is when the effect is worst.
I recall having all sorts of problems trying to drive the XRR with the clutch pack before I learnt how to set it up properly especially in slow speed corners so the effect is not new I recall most using the locked diff because of this situation. But with the diff setup nicely for the combo the XRR was pure driving pleasure with the clutchpack.
My personal view is that with a tight diff (which is what you want for fast lap times and the default sets have) the GT would be a real bitch in low speed corners and will always require a long gentle throttle aplication out of hairpins. This is made worse by the fact that most drivers like a very pointy set which amplifies the situtaion (not a problem with the default sets but is for most 'fast' sets).
I don't have a problem with the car spinning I think that is realistic and only happens when I'm pushing too hard (talking about Suzuka hairpin) I do think the way the car spins though is a little odd as the yaw angle seems to accelerate which does make it harder to catch slides (but not impossible)
At the moment if I overdrive it by a small margine I can recover it, sometimes even from tank slapper status, but if I overdrive it slightly more it just goes around on me and in that situation when it does it will be at least a 270deg spin.
I think a lot of the frustration people have with the GT is that they aren't able to get the diff setup so they are comfortable with the car and/or they don't have a working knowledge of how the clutch pack LSD diff will behave under different conditions and therefore drive the car inappropriately.
@Hyperactive - I believe that LFS throttle response has not been linear for some time? Wasn't it changed around the time Scawen released a major drive line overhaul some time back? With fly wheel inertia and implementation of different diffs, thats my recolection anyway but it's been a while so my memory could be off
I recall having all sorts of problems trying to drive the XRR with the clutch pack before I learnt how to set it up properly especially in slow speed corners so the effect is not new
I recall most using the locked diff because of this situation. But with the diff setup nicely for the combo the XRR was pure driving pleasure with the clutchpack.My personal view is that with a tight diff (which is what you want for fast lap times and the default sets have) the GT would be a real bitch in low speed corners and will always require a long gentle throttle aplication out of hairpins. This is made worse by the fact that most drivers like a very pointy set which amplifies the situtaion (not a problem with the default sets but is for most 'fast' sets).
I don't have a problem with the car spinning I think that is realistic and only happens when I'm pushing too hard (talking about Suzuka hairpin) I do think the way the car spins though is a little odd as the yaw angle seems to accelerate which does make it harder to catch slides (but not impossible)
At the moment if I overdrive it by a small margine I can recover it, sometimes even from tank slapper status, but if I overdrive it slightly more it just goes around on me and in that situation when it does it will be at least a 270deg spin.
I think a lot of the frustration people have with the GT is that they aren't able to get the diff setup so they are comfortable with the car and/or they don't have a working knowledge of how the clutch pack LSD diff will behave under different conditions and therefore drive the car inappropriately.
@Hyperactive - I believe that LFS throttle response has not been linear for some time? Wasn't it changed around the time Scawen released a major drive line overhaul some time back? With fly wheel inertia and implementation of different diffs, thats my recolection anyway but it's been a while so my memory could be off
Well I knew that BBT didn't like the "alien" sets you must run in LFS, so I decided to use the default set. It has 60 power locking with only 160ish preload. Not spot on, but close enough.
Most of the setups we use now are actually not locked diff btw.
Not ignoring this thread BTW, just it's a long weekend and the resulting Guinness intake makes me think that I should not post before thinking sans said Guinness intake. Phil is still wrong regardless though.
With this whole debate started, it would be obvious I would be wrong no matter what. Just look at my country flag.
And for people without iR:
And for people without iR:
I guess they forgot about Oran park again xD Oulten and Oran arent the same. :P
Kill two bats with single blow. Ourton park
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Anyways if I remember correctly the iracing throttle has two unlinearities in it. One is the curve the carburetor of a car (or the ecu) outputs in relation to the throttle input. This is effectively just the rate at which the carb or ecu "opens" as you give it more and more throttle. The other one is the engine response to that carb or ecu setting which is not only throttle but rpm relevant. Apparently at higher rpm the engine response is better (or maybe even more linear) than at lower rpms. That's not really hard to check though. Just do some dyno runs at 50% and if you get exactly 50% of power across the rev range then it's linear. If it is not exact 50% then it's not linear.
Of course with turbo cars it's more complex.
Naturally I can't find anything about it on iracing forums.
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Anyways if I remember correctly the iracing throttle has two unlinearities in it. One is the curve the carburetor of a car (or the ecu) outputs in relation to the throttle input. This is effectively just the rate at which the carb or ecu "opens" as you give it more and more throttle. The other one is the engine response to that carb or ecu setting which is not only throttle but rpm relevant. Apparently at higher rpm the engine response is better (or maybe even more linear) than at lower rpms. That's not really hard to check though. Just do some dyno runs at 50% and if you get exactly 50% of power across the rev range then it's linear. If it is not exact 50% then it's not linear.
Of course with turbo cars it's more complex.
Naturally I can't find anything about it on iracing forums.
I dont like small tracks.
Feels like driving on a roundabout....
Feels like driving on a roundabout....
Never read any of that anywhere before actually, but good luck finding it through that hunk of garbage forum.
Got to make something easy for us rednecks.
Scawen.
Eric.
Victor.
Eric.
Victor.
Nothin wrong with sniffing around their tracks for laser scanning details.
However, it was back in 2008 when he registered, so it is nothing new. Seeing him logged in 9 days ago though is interesting.
"Keep your friends close, keep your enemies even closer".
However, it was back in 2008 when he registered, so it is nothing new. Seeing him logged in 9 days ago though is interesting.
"Keep your friends close, keep your enemies even closer".
Or it's someone with the same name batman.
Oh come on, his helmet is even LFS colors!
Posting so that Phil avoids a DP...
'iRacing.com to create virtual McLaren MP4-12C GT3'
http://www.iracing.com/inracin ... tual-mclaren-mp4-12c-gt3/
http://www.iracing.com/inracin ... tual-mclaren-mp4-12c-gt3/
When the McLaren is released, it will be time for me to renew my subscription.
http://www.iracing.com/inracin ... tual-mclaren-mp4-12c-gt3/
http://www.iracing.com/inracin ... tual-mclaren-mp4-12c-gt3/
This thread is closed
iRacing
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