Perhaps because a certain McLaren driver has had a faultless week-end?
Perhaps because a certain McLaren driver has had a faultless week-end?
Just a misjudgement really. Fighting Alonso, neither wanting to be out braked, and then realising there isnt enough road left to slow down.
IMO 5 place penalty is spot on.
I don't think Petrov can be completly held accountable. Yea, sure he was behind the wheel but again we see the failings of DRS. If neither of those cars had DRS they would have known where to brake, what was the late breaking point. Alonso pushed that move because he was going to use the runoff come what may, that left Petrov with such massive closing speed to schuey that he had no chance. Sure, Petrov should have been wary of the effects of DRS coming into that corner, when you see the closing speed, The back of shuey's car travelling about 50mph whilst doing his own racing, only a 100 metres in front of a car just starting to brake from 200mph being outsighted by Alonso who knew he was going to go cruising into the runoff anyway.
Just another example of how these cars are just not designed to run together. There has to come a time when the technology is actually detrimental to racing. and I think we passed that years ago. Sure these cars are at the pinnacle of motor racing. They do things that no other car can do. But at the end of the day, If I want to see the fastest cars on earth go point to point, I'll head to Santa Pod for the day. Now, when I want to see Team racing, I'll watch Aussie V8's. Big, Low DF, Skilled drivers and some of the closest racing you'll see on the planet.
Just another example of how these cars are just not designed to run together. There has to come a time when the technology is actually detrimental to racing. and I think we passed that years ago. Sure these cars are at the pinnacle of motor racing. They do things that no other car can do. But at the end of the day, If I want to see the fastest cars on earth go point to point, I'll head to Santa Pod for the day. Now, when I want to see Team racing, I'll watch Aussie V8's. Big, Low DF, Skilled drivers and some of the closest racing you'll see on the planet.
Dozens of cars approached that corner at the very highest speed and in traffic, with no problem at all. You can't put a lapse in concentration down to a small speed differential caused by DRS. He was simply so focused on outbraking Alonso that he braked too late.
I don't think DRS is particularly relevant. It does not really increase the ultimate top speed in most cases as they end up bouncing off the limiter - just the same as a good slipstream.
Even if they go 20mph quicker, these guys are supposed to be the best in the world. It's not the biggest crime the world has ever seen, but deserved a small penalty.
Even if they go 20mph quicker, these guys are supposed to be the best in the world. It's not the biggest crime the world has ever seen, but deserved a small penalty.
Alonso missed the braking point too
Faultless? I wouldn't say that. Despite having the quickest car at Korea, he simple managed to hold up Webber and Button who were both faster and kinder to their tyres. Kudos to him for not crashing into anyone all weekend, which is very rare these days, and kudos for defending very well, but I wouldn't call still being unable to really manage tyres is 'faultless'.
Sinbad's Law - Any f1 discussion will inevitably eventually result in a "critique" of a certain Mclaren driver.
Button wasn't even close to Webber and couldn't manage the tyres any better
FFS Tristan... you're unbelievable you really are. You're clearly bitter about something, might wanna sort that out cos I'm sure Toki and Juzaa won't agree with you even.
I can't really take a stand here since I didn't see the race. However, Hamilton did not make any real mistakes and managed to beat Button. I also heard he battled well with Webber so I think it's fair to say he had a good race.
The reason I want DRS taken out of F1 is because it will kill most of the battles between drivers for positions. I think at least Hamilton fans can agree with me for saying that if the DRS zone here would've been as powerful as in most of the races this season no one would've seen the battle with Hamilton and Webber and the race would've been less interesting.
Webber wouldn't have had a sniff without it, though. DRS makes passes too easy when there is a large performance difference between the two cars, but it also makes passing possible when the difference is small. As a result I think we have seen more repassing than we normally do. I'd trade the fast car vs. slow car action for evenly matched passing and repassing any day.
I still would rather they addressed the fundamental issue, though.
Actually the fast car vs. slow car issue after pitting is already taken care of because of the new tires. When you come out of the pit with fresh tires your tires are seconds faster than the ones the ''slow cars'' have. That makes passing quite easy. In the old days slower drivers were part of the game and you needed to consider everyone else and where they are instead the current system where you only need to think what the driver behind you does. I understand the DRS is only in it's first year which is why there have been so many ''too easy'' DRS zones but still I'd rather have pure racing where driver behind doesn't get any advantages than have DRS and passes executed by pressing a button. That's for arcade games.
The fundamental issues behind the hard overtaking are the tracks. We have tracks where you don't need DRS to overtake and we have tracks where you can't overtake even with DRS without your opponent making a mistake.
With the DRS we'll soon be in a situation like MotoGP was a while ago (probably still, haven't bothered to watch it for the last few years) where you want to be second when coming into the last lap because you will get past in a certain corner if you are faster (or as fast) and after the corner you just need to drive to the finish line.
Yep, agreed. He did very well in Renault against the much more experienced Fisichella. I felt he didn't get a fair go at McLaren: aside from being made to qualify with higher fuel loads than Hamilton, it was clear that the car wasn't suited to his driving and was unable to get enough heat into the tyres, similar to Raikkonen's difficulty at Ferrari in 2008 and 2009. He also had some ghastly luck, but managed to pull off some good races along the way.
He probably isn't tier-1, but easily among the best of the rest.
Dirty air is the reason why cars often never get close enough. Well that and absurdly good brakes and high corner speeds. Not easily solvable without slowing the cars right down, so we might as well forget about it
Remove DRS and you'll get stalemate situations all the time, again, and drivers and teams relying on the undercut rather than hoping they'll be able to pass for a position. I don't like it that much, but I really don't like seeing passes done in the pits all the time because it's the only way.
Because of the new tires you are seconds faster with new tires than with the old tires. When you add the original advantage fastest cars had to the slower ones it doesn't take that much to pass slow drivers after pitting. Not to mention that with fresh tires you have more grip and can brake later.
Dirty air is only an issue with two almost as fast drivers. DRS may help the overtaking but it's also taken the excitement out of overtaking. How many times have you been thrilled about a pass in which the overtaker used DRS? DRS takes the challenge from the overtaker to the soon-to-be overtaken. It helps slower drivers keep up with faster ones if they are within a second and sometimes even helps the overtaker after the overtake. How's that good that after an overtake you get few tenths for free?
I don't see how good brakes have any effect on overtaking. It's the same difficulty if you both have to brake 100m before the corner or 50m before the corner. If you have the same brakes there's no difference.
Car speed does have some effect but let's compare Monaco and Spa. In Monaco the speeds are much lower so why aren't there nearly as many overtaking attempts there as there are in Spa (or maybe Monza). It's all about the tracks how easy it is to overtake.
This is true however negated when the two cars pit on the same lap.
With this much information deemed factual to yourself you must have all the technical data from both cars, to come to this conclusion.
I hope Hamilton goes to redbull in 2013, I really do.
.
Dirty air only an issue with equally matched cars? I'd say that makes it a pretty serious issue then, but actually there can be quite a large speed gap and it makes getting close enough impossible. We saw this with the Ferraris at the weekend, even with Drs Alonso couldn't get close enough. Excitement? How about the excitement, or lack thereof, of knowing that with 15 laps to go, car A will not be able to pass car B because A only caught B at 0.5 per lap?
Brakes are a big factor. It's not about how difficult it is, it's about time and distance spent on them. The shorter the braking zone the harder it is to establish an overlap by braking slightly later, which is as much down to corner speeds, admittedly. Then dirty air (the main issue) gives the lead car an unwarranted advantage through and out of the corner. You say you don't like DRS because it offers an unfair help to a driver, well I think the turbulent air effect in f1 does that too, and if they add things to negate that, even the rather gimmicky DRS, I'm all for it.
How much faster was Vettel when he passed Alonso in Monza? That 0.5 seconds you stated is probably quite close to the circumstances and Vettel managed to pass Alonso quite easily, even with Alonso defending furiously.
The dirty air gives the lead car an advantage in the corners but in the straights the car behind gains an advantage because of the slipstream. All we need is long straights that have proper corners designed for overtaking.
You say you don't want to watch races where you know there won't be overtakes. Don't you think the driver in front should have a chance of defending his position? With DRS there's not that chance. (unless the DRS is poorly chosen and doesn't do any good) Besides, with DRS the tactic teams use seems to be to drive as fast as possible and pit when the other equal teams pit.
DRS has also made qualifying a waste of time and tires. Not driving the Q3 (or driving only one lap) because you'll get fresher tires in the race and your position doesn't really matter that much because of the passing DRS generates is becoming annoying.
2011 Formula 1 Korean Grand Prix
(71 posts, started )
FGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG