I'm trying to prepare for live racing with other drivers, which means working on staying with the pack and overtaking properly.

The AI really don't let you practice the "right" way. Their are two basic problems, and they're pretty significant:

1. AI drivers do not understand "racing room". If I get up along side one for an inside pass, they have no problem pushing me right off the track. In an actual race, it's my understanding that once you are next to another driver, they have to give you enough room to complete your pass. Outside passes are not better. AI drivers routinely block and cut off.

2. AI drivers have no problem rear-ending me. If I get up a position or two, I inevitably get tossed by somebody from behind, spin out and have to restart. I've yet to finish an actual race after overtaking another driver.

These two problems make the single player mode virtually useless for practicing proper racing technique except for trailing dead last in the pack, which is OK, but sooner or later, I need to practice passing.

Any thoughts?

I have LFS for quite some time now, but out of the major sims it's the one I use the least. One of the reasons is the AI driving unrealistically.

While I never raced LFS online, I have terrible things about the public servers. Apparently even worse than Race 07 or rFactor. One reason could be that if the AI drive that bad, new online racers may think that's the way you are supposed to race. This wouldn't be unheard of.
Not long ago, in a league race I came upon a lapped driver while I was in second place and when I tried to pass him on the straight he blocked me, so I went around and he blocked me again. He did that for the entire front straight and the following turns until I dive bombed him and he wrecked while I was able to continue racing.

Later in the forum he called me out for not saying "Sorry". I almost eat him alive. But it turned out he was unaware of the blocking policy and he thought what he did was OK.

Nevertheless, it goes to show that if stuff like that happens in a league, public servers must be hell and if the AI of a game rewards horrible behavior the drivers will learn to drive in that fashion.

If anything, I would like the AI of any sim to try top avoid collisions as much as possible. RL racers do that at all times because they either have to pay for it or deal with those that do.

But yes, I was told that the LFS AI were particularly bad and indeed they are.

Yes, AI are bad indeed, because they are fixed to one racing line and they follow it.

You should first learn the track in offline mode and have good times. Then you should go online and practise with other people how to overtake and if something goes wrong, dont forget to say sorry. Thats what I did.

Quote from Sobis :

Yes, AI are bad indeed, because they are fixed to one racing line and they follow it.

You should first learn the track in offline mode and have good times. Then you should go online and practise with other people how to overtake and if something goes wrong, dont forget to say sorry. Thats what I did.

[2]

If you wanna be good, practice online, not offline...
Offline you can restart, restart, restart and restart when things are bad.
Online you learn to deal with pressure, consistency, backmarkers, choose line for T1, etc...

Please don't generalize public servers are hell. Every basket has some bad apples. I can name many very good public servers with very high standards for safety, excellent good clean fair racing and extremely polite and nice people, off the top of my head. As far a s the original post goes, try online, be careful, you will get the hang of it soon

Quote from conticreative :

I have LFS for quite some time now, but out of the major sims it's the one I use the least. One of the reasons is the AI driving unrealistically.

I've only tried rFactor and LFS. The problem with rFactor is I could not get it to read my controllers properly before the 1 hour demo timed out. I figured if I can't get it to work in an hour, they're right, I know enough to make a decision. LFS fired right up and I had it all working in 10 minutes. Winner.

What other sims should I be trying? Any of them have better AI drivers?

Quote from rageshgr :

...

I agree with the above.

Yes, some of the public servers (in general) might not have the cleanest driving standards. But that is to be expected when drivers regardless of their skills and/or experiences can join in and race - that IS one of the best features of this sim.

If you're not trying online racing simply because you've heard some bad things about public servers - you really are not getting the best out of LFS. Jump online - do a few races - have fun!

We've had a great evening on cargame.nl S2 with clean racers - fun on AS/KY with GT2 and TBO4s. Just a few mins ago: jump to around the 10 min mark on the attached replay and have a look at the GT2s coming up to lap the TBO4s in the final few turns. Racing with the AI ain't that fun! (http://www.megaupload.com/?d=HG2B0O08)

Screenshot taken at a few hundred metres before the finish line. That's what you're missing...

As for the AI - yeah, it needs work - and Scawen mentioned that he had/will updated it. But forget the AI - once you're comfortable with the cars and know the tracks join in and race with us...

--

MJL - Have a go on the well-administrated demo racing servers. The AirAttack/RedLineRacing are good places to start (assuming that you have a good understanding of racing etiquette and can control your car). At first hang at the back of the pack until you get used to the whole online thing (unpredictable drivers, close racing based on ping/lag, other's racing lines). Once you are happy with it have a go at hard racing. It'll be fustrating at first when others who simply dont have a lack of regard crash you out - but in the end the demo racing servers are a better to get you started off (as opposed to racing with LFS AI).

What is etiquette, and how do you code it?

Quote from boothy :

What is etiquette, and how do you code it?

if MyWheelsYourDoor(MyWheels, YourDoor) then MoveTheHellOver(myX, myY, YourX, YourY)

If CompareSpeed(MySpeed, YourSpeed) and BehindMe(MyVector,YourVector) then SlowTheHellDown(MySpeed,YourSpeed)

Let me try adding some good servers apart from what Silverracer has mentioned

1. [pfh] gtr (my team server
2. ![amg] gtr motorsport
3. ![amg] gti motorsport
4. There is 1 or 2 by dominant monkeys. But not able to get the server name now.
5. Redline Racing has 9 servers. 5 demo and 4 Liced.

There may be more good servers but I may not have tried them out. Jump in any of these servers. You will find helpful encouraging people there, who even without asking will spectate your driving and give you live commentary/tips on each corners, share you many setups etc.

LFS is an online racing simulator. It works best when you race against other human beings. If you wanna race AI go play with your console.

Quote from anttt69 :

LFS is an online racing simulator. It works best when you race against other human beings. If you wanna race AI go play with your console.

Can we try and not chase away those who are genuinely interested in the sim? He/she is trying to be a good driver before trying online racing (and getting in the way of others...).

Although it might be too late for that...

the best way to learn is try tracks offline WITHOUT AI:S but when you wanna go online and start racing. first look some good guality server or if some of your frends are driving and egualy good or better than you, they might can help you with learning good racing... i prefer to go some easy server where other beginners drive. example AirAttacks servers are good theres drivers from 1:12 to 1:18 so theres something for everyone.

sory i made this at fast speed so ask if you dont understand something

I just practice offline for improving my cornering and lap times.

I do my passing practice online live players is more fun.


If you want to practice passing cars try starting from the back of the start line.
I start dead last every race and usually finish in the top 5 depending on how many fast drivers are in the race.


If you hang back at start most of the bad drivers will crash at the first corner or by the 2nd corner then work on catching the others you wont catch the 1:12 drivers like that unless they crash but it's good practice.


To get dead last start position nearly everytime spectate on race restart countdown wait till race is restarting screen appears then Shift +p then join real quick. won't work if race is full.


If your super fast try to get a front position and follow the fastest cars in the race.


If you get behind that slow guy who's blocking or trying to run you off the road then i usually ride on there bumper and give them a speed boost into a wall or something

AI-drivers once were very capable of actually racing the player offline. However this was true a long time ago. During the still ongoing S2-alpha stage (first alpha-release dates back to 2006 IIRC) many changes to physics, track-layout and other parts of the sim were made and at some point the once usable AI-underpinnings got incompatible with all the refinements brought to S2-alpha.

I highly doubt we will see any substantial AI improvements until the first alpha of S3. Unless the developers have other plans and just wouldn't let us know in advance...

Changing topic to online-hooligans:
For all I know is that bad drivers will always continue to be a part of lfs and any online-racing (-simulation) for that matter. Worth mentioning: some people might just have a bad day. Or quite a variety of opponents fail to deliver on their potential, causing mayhem in the field - each doing so on an all-new round, e.g.: always pushing your car out of the race.
Happened to me more times than I can remember. Sometimes there is nothing you can do about it as much as calling it a day, and move on.

Enjoy the good races, while they last. They are out there. Fought out by people who enjoy actual racing as much as you do. Try to find the right guys to hang out with and race. Don't waste any time on "arguing" with the crashers too much :-)

Oh yeah: if you want to afford it: i-racing is as much a good option as it is indeed one reason why formerly active lfs-fans have gone quiet over the last couple of years. The rise and the fall of the once ground braking "CTRA"-pickup-servers is another one - I really enjoyed the competition there, especially the hilarious jump-and-bump server. But that has been yesterday's news for quite some time, already.

for your entertainment
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghyWX4XgqZU