Yes

A war crime is a war crime, Bush, Blair, Obama and their minions are all ( in many peoples opinion ) guilty, so lets have an open, transparent trial to determine the truth. ROFL !!!

Like that's going to happen, until the people stop supporting these criminals and actually stand up, as human beings, and say NO to murder and genocide of anyone who's in the way of their lust for 'money' we'll continue with the same old, same old.

I hate to point out the totally obvious but it's up to the people to choose, and so far you've chosen to sleepwalk your way to x factor .........

Try watching George Carlins 'American Dream', you have to be asleep to believe it !

Hey Racer, you know you don't have to insult someone's intelligence to convey a point to them?

Sorry,

But George is far better than I am at getting the point across.

And it would be nice if people could try to be responsible for their actions instead of supporting a bunch of murderous thugs then saying its not me, nothing I can do, just let it happen as long as its not me it happens to.

It's great to see OWS because for the first time in a very long while Americans and others are trying to reclaim their countries, what will come of it, who knows but at least they are making the attempt.

Quote from flymike91 :

In short Gaddafi was bad and was directly responsible for the deaths of many people outside of Libya, especially in SE Asia and Israel...

It's interesting how easily you take things for a fact

OK... using the same standard, let's make another statement:
"In short, USA president(s) was bad and was directly responsible for the deaths of many people (civilians primarily) outside of USA, especially in Iraq and Afghanistan".

Would you take this for a fact?

Quote from sermilan :

"In short, USA president(s) was bad and was directly responsible for the deaths of many people (civilians primarily) outside of USA, especially in Iraq and Afghanistan".

That nailed it!

Hmm. Yes. How about we leave this line of extrapolation alone before people start pointing their fingers at older countries with a history of imperialism.

I don't think anything will come of OWS. The more money the government takes away from corporations, the less money those corps. will be able to put into their reelection campaigns. The problem with capitalism is not there there are too many capitalists, there are not enough capitalists who can actually compete with the big corporations.
For all of their comparisons to the Tea Party, the Tea Party was able to organize a caucus, nominate candidates who support their views, and actually put them in government positions where they can advance their platform. I would be very surprised if even 15% of OWS protesters have ever voted in a city council election, a state legislature election, or a referendum. I agree with most of their points, but honestly they should be in front of the congress protesting for term limits because that is the first step to building the kind of government that treats people equitably. Lobbying and special interests are completely out of hand; every single nook and cranny of local, state, and federal government is infested with SI's and corporations trying to get their handout or push their agenda. It creates a political climate where even a crooked chicago-style politician can thrive as long as they say yes to everyone who comes in their office. Why would a SI group support a new challenger who might give them what they want when they know the incumbent is already in their pocket?

OWS seems like a great place to have kinky outdoor tent sex though and that is something we should all support.

Quote from -NightFly- :

Quote from sermilan :

"In short, USA president(s) was bad and was directly responsible for the deaths of many people (civilians primarily) outside of USA, especially in Iraq and Afghanistan".

That nailed it!

But lacks chronology- what happened as result of what

flymike agreeing with ows? wth is happening here?

also the reason the tea party is successful is precicely because its effectively lobbying
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T ... t#Koch_Industry_influence

OWS and Tea Party protesters have a lot in common. They targeted slightly different institutions, but the problems they highlight are the same, just their solutions are different.

I do think a lot of the OWS are exceptionally naive though in putting faith in socialism as a solution. It just isn't

Yes it's especially ironic: more socialism and less individual responsibility would be the best thing that could happen to the world's largest corporations when the governments and corporations already have a system in place to ensure their mutual interests are met.

The tea party have been taken over by the usual money interests, their original aims were excellent but ........

The same will probably happen with OWS, and that seems to be happening now from what I'm seeing.

Socialist theory, and in fact anarchist theory will work until people's love of money takes over and then the same old, same old, need of 'leaders' etc is what we see.

The fundermental problem with the US, and the EU, is with the monentry system, in the US all money is created as debt, and as such must be replayed with interest, to repay this debt more money must be borrowed. This has led to the US being 15 trillion in debt.

The fed is a private company, controlled by Rothschilds, check the facts please.

The original aims of OWS is to bring the US back to controlling its own finances, I'm cynical about the outcome as personal greed seems to usually win but we'll see what happens.

Read my first post regarding how Libya would lend to its people at NO interest, yes, fees, but no interest.

Your million dollar bonus bankers are totally opposed to this due to their love of money, hence all the current wars, etc.

Let's see what happens over the next months, Libya's being raped currently and the next target seems to be Iran, should be interesting to see if these bankers can create WW3 as per their agenda.

Oh yes, innocent Iran is going to be the next hapless target of the west's insatiable thirst for blood, oil, and money. Iran the country that executes people who speak against the religion of peace and is building a nuclear weapon to start a second holocaust. They're probably the only country stupid enough to actually use a nuclear weapon that's why everyone is so scared of them.

The fed is indeed a private and entirely corrupt entity and it is typical of you to act like you're the only one privy to secret conspiracies the rest of us sheep are blind to.

OWS seems to want the government to have more power (to give them free stuff), the Tea Party wants it to have almost none (to fck off and leave us alone). I like the paleoconservative way better but that's just me.

The system is not going to change until it crashes or sparks WWIII unless something impossibly drastic happens before then. There are too many powerful people that are desperately patching the sinking ships to get everything they can off them. The more we react to try to save the status quo with bailouts the more we entrench ourselves in the system of globalism which has already failed and cannot ever be fixed.

I'm not actually US bashing here, and if you understand what I'm saying then that's great, sorry to lecture but I'm more use to people disagreeing !

That said, the US, NATO etc feel free to murder people anywhere who may disagree with them (drones anyone ) and Iran has invaded, attacked how many countries ?

The US already has more than enough nuclear weapons to kill us all many times over !

I'm certainly not supporting Iran, just stating that they are the probable next target according to the apparent game plan.

And, until the people of the US come to your understanding that the fed is a scam nothing is going to change, it really is up to the US people to push for change. I can point it out in the hope that people learn but there's not a great deal of change in the US that anyone outside can create.

Good luck and kick ass !

Why this thread is so full of capitalism

My brother and I agree that OWS will either end up like the anti-nuclear protest at the White House (never ending) or come to a gloriously violent end.

My money is on the first one.

Quote from flymike91 :

Iran ... is building a nuclear weapon to start a second holocaust. They're probably the only country stupid enough to actually use a nuclear weapon that's why everyone is so scared of them.

As opposed to the only country that has used one?

Quote from thisnameistaken :

As opposed to the only country that has used one?

Two actually, not including DU ammunition, as well as probably using enhanced uranium weaponry and phosphorous weapons which are certainly illegal.

But they are allegedly the forces for good ( like Team America ) so that's ok.

It's the Iranians who are now the forces for evil, it used to be Al Queda but they are now on the side of good ( I think )

It's all so confusing, I just wish we could get regular updates who's on which side.

Even the US seems confused as even though they ( Al Qaeda ) are now given Libya with NATO support they are still officially on the side of evil, maybe they haven't cought up with the paperwork yet.

Thought of the day, The quickest way to prevent terrorism is to stop screwing with other peoples countries.

But I guess there's no money in that !

Quote from Racer X NZ :

Thought of the day, The quickest way to prevent terrorism is to stop screwing with other peoples countries.

+1

Quote from Racer X NZ :

But I guess there's no money in that !

+1

War today is just a big business, nothing more than that... and it really makes me sick when people start using "crimes against humanity", "evil doers", "terrorists" and terms like these in order to justify the actual huge gang bang that's going to happen.

so what justice is there for people who live in terror under obsolete societal rules like sharia law? Most of these countries don't have a functional justice system to protect their people (functional meaning actually dispersing justice).
Pakistani family threatened fo ... ll daughter who was raped
If someone told me the master scheme of all the wars in the middle east was to prevent Islamic influence in the West that would be one thing, but seeing as the wars foster in them only hatred towards the West and then we let them emigrate to our countries is insanity. The Middle East and the West should have as little contact as possible. Our ideas about how society should function are incompatible and have been so for a hundred years and will continue to be for hundreds of years more.

Perhaps there are other ways of bringing about justice other than occupying with military forces or killing civilians through errant drone strikes?

Quote from flymike91 :

The Middle East and the West should have as little contact as possible. Our ideas about how society should function are incompatible and have been so for a hundred years and will continue to be for hundreds of years more.

Trouble is, isolation can cause suspicion, suspicion can cause paranoia and paranoia can can lead to hatred, I doubt things would turn out better that way.

I do believe that it's now legal in the US to kill anyone with no evidence required, provided its the state doing the killing.

It's also legal to lock people up, again with no evidence required, pretty much forever.


Torture has been renamed and is now legal.


Wars can be started with no requirement for congress approval.


Etc etc etc ...............


Personally, I've always found that when you spend some time talking to people, we're all the same. Same hopes, dreams etc. also the same desire to live our lives in peace, doesn't seem to make any difference what color we are and where we're born.

There is no way that the US or the UN can enforce justice for human rights abuses. The UN has completely squandered any power it had to do so long ago and is now the leaking money faucet for a misguided idea.

If the US were to withdraw itself from foreign politics it should do so completely. Our army and arsenal is more than enough to protect our own country from invasion and to preemptively stop threats to our security with espionage and that's all that should matter to the US government. The UN is now bloated and corrupt so we need to eliminate our share of funding that organization. It does nothing for the countries that put money into it and indeed one could argue that rampant waste and fraud only punishes countries for their participation. It is ridiculous to me that the US funds 22% of the UN's budget while Germany and the UK only fund 8% and 7% respectively. Acts by congress to limit or eliminate UN funding have been met with resistance from the UN on the grounds that it would promote even more anti-American and anti-Israeli attitudes. So that argument amounts to: they only put up with us because we give them money. Countries who don't approve of US involvement in foreign relations should refuse money, legislate the removal of our foreign bases, and vote to remove the US as a member state of the UN. When countries stop catering to global interests and start addressing the needs of their own citizens first we can hopefully come back from the brink. There is no reason to fund humanitarian aid abroad when there are people in the US who need aid themselves.

Racer X you need to stop talking out of your ass and prove that the US systematically performs summary executions of US citizens or life imprisonment without trial. In every country since countries began people have been wrongly accused and convicted of crimes, no more so in the US than anywhere else. If Casey Anthony can walk free after admitting to chloroforming her child and keeping her in the trunk (where she probably died) then I would say the problem is the opposite.

Quote from flymike91 :

It is ridiculous to me that the US funds 22% of the UN's budget while Germany and the UK only fund 8% and 7% respectively

The UK spends 30% of the amount of the US, but only has 20% of the population... (same situation for Germany 36% / 26%)

Sounds fair to me... in fact if anything the US isn't pulling it's weight.

I think that I can confidently state that NZ has no desire to invade the US, unless you really piss us off !!!!

And mike, the US has killed US citizens exactly as I've said, I'll post the info later.