i haven't been on these forums for a while due to the amount of time iv been spending driving but there still seems to be a this thing with set-ups and several posts on this set-up phanonama that has reared its ugly head...



im not the fastest of drivers nor am i the "set-up kiddie" but im going to try and answer a few things for the guys with questions.....

This is not a set-up guide its just a basic guide to maybe help the newer drivers along and show them where to start chopping there lap times up.



before we start here a few simple rules....





1} Set-ups will not make a new driver a WR holder

2} if you cant drive the "track" the set-up of the car will be useless.

3} pick a set and stay with that set....



ok #1 is for the new drivers (and this is not a flame to the new guys) that think that a set-up will make them top dog on the track, there are a lot more important variables before a set-up is able to do its thing...



#2 is one of those variables, learn the track and learn it some more and then some more, i have been testing at westill for weeks and im still not as familiar with it as i want to be..



#3 this is where we can begin to climb our way up the lap times ladder, i really cant stress this enough, either stick with the default sets or go and download the "easy to drive" sets from the set-up forum.... then STICK WITH IT...... forget the car and concentrate on the track, just tell yourself that set-ups are not ingame yet and learn the track...



a lot of people are saying that they are faster when they do a few cool off laps than when they are pushing.., well all i can say there is watch a SPR of you do lap wile pushing and a lap with not pushing to the max, i bet you find while pushing your locking up the brakes at least 30% more than usual plus the car looks very twitchy and the your lines will be all over the shop., only over time will find the limit of the car/track.. but what ever you do STICK WITH THAT SET!!, i know its frustrating when you a massive 7 seconds of the pace but we all was even the fastest guys and if they say they nver was then they are lying...



get those laps smooth the more you turn that wheel the slower you will be going that's where we get the line from, getting round the turn with the most speed and less steering, this will save you a lot of time latter when you start doing your own sets and your tires are on fire after 2 laps, so smoothen out those laps, just remember if you are holding your breath going into a turn so are your tires..



next thing is (on the tighter turns) slow in fast out, if you fly into a turn at 100mph skidding off the line the nose of your car is now in the wrong place meaning you have to correct that and cant get the power down, once you have got that then you can "begin" find the medium of "speed and position" in that turn, that is the highest speed you can enter the turn without compromising you position on the exit and being able to get the all important power down, remember that if you cant get the power down were you should be you will carry that loss of speed all the way to the next corner...



ok so once you have lapped and lapped and can basically do a decent time with your eyes closed you have to work on consistency, in a race 1 or 2 super fast laps means nothing consistency means everything, i see some driver on server doing say a few high 1.24's and in between those making more mistakes than bush the fast guys can do mid 1.25s low 26's every lap that's a fast driver... get those breaking points inch perfect same with strearing and power down points...



NOW AND ONLY NOW are you ready for the word "set-up", and i strongly advise you learn the basics of setting up a car and tweaking with it your self, because as its been said a million nd one time on here before we all drive different, so one set will not produce the same times for any 2 drivers, even the best!...



this is where you can start stripping tenth's of your PB and its a longer road than the one above get as much info on setting up your car and test test test...



last thing WR SETS.....



i see sooo many drivers running "races" on WR sets.... PLEASE don't do this are you will soon find yourself in the tire wall on lap 3, WR sets are just that, and they are set-up in such a way that they are only made to run 2/3 laps max! this is because the set-up "usually" eats tires so they can get round in the fastest time and throw the car into turns at silly speeds, this is all well and good until it comes to race 3 laps and you have to pit... plus the cars are normally set to be very unstable again not going to get you that win... and remember its someone else's set once again, it fitted there driving style not yours!...



hope this helps a little bit..

All reasonable advice.

Just to add:

* Smooth is fast
* WR sets are best used to people already close to WR pace, and well aware of how to adapt their driving style to suit the setup

Dont forget, MOST of the WR runs and setups are made with an UNREALISTIC setup, EXPLOITING a few bugs the physics have, which drives me INSANE.... not only that, but the WR laps are done tearing up the tranny and car, not REALISTIC at all, so dont gauge your speed by kids that will do anything including exploiting physics bugs to be fast (IE: having the front end 10 cms higher then the rear, in real life the car would have 0 grip on the front since its creating lift, damn exploiters)

Watch a few of my wr runs if i still have any :P, there you'll see realistic setups and lines and driving.

Also, i cant stress enough to learn the track! very good points made by the poster, follow them and you'll be set for some good races.

RMachucaA, I actually did some testing in the formula car for abit, just to see what actually needed to be done to go fast in LFS, didn't spend long doing it, but the setup I came up with was wierd to say the least.

Front ride hieght all the way up almost, rear low, stiff, low rebound, running the rear tires as low as possible, lots of rear camber, from what I remember, was a few other little 'extreme' settings used, like caster I think.

But its the same in all sims, I'm no setup expert, but all you do is play with a few values, see what they do, faster/slower, than go to the extreme of that value and that usually is the fastest.

Excellent thread here for the new drivers of this fabulous game. I posted something similar to this in a thread on RSC from a new guy complaining that he couldn't drive fast. I do use some of the WR sets from the Inferno site, but you have to realise that you will have to make them race worthy for longer stints. Most really fast sets are very loose in the back and I adjust them to tighten them up. You would also need to probably adjust the tire pressures or even go to another tire to last a race. But as the original poster said, the most important is to learn the track and stay with the same setup. Bob Smith's Easy Race Sets are perfect for this.

And as RMachucaA said

Quote :

Watch a few of my wr runs if i still have any :P, there you'll see realistic setups and lines and driving.

I race in a league with him and have known him since the first S2 demo release in the Core server (what is the extra A at the end of your LFS name for?). He is blazingly fast compared to me, but I learn alot watching. He can beat WR's with a setup made for a 40 lap race. He has given me his sets for RWD cars before and though they are made for his driving and are very loose, I find them to be very controllable, unlike WR sets where if you lose it, you are going around and there's no stopping. But if you don't know precisely where to brake, how to hit the apex, when to put the power down out on the track, his set, a WR set, or any set you get from someone in the server's won't help you. Until you can consistantly hit the corners correctly, you need to stick with the same setup and not switch around.

thisnameistaken:

the trick for a fast lap is all in the chicane, on entry go in about half throttle, dab the brakes to get some weight on the front tyres, once pointed to the exit gradually go on to 100% throttle.

RichardTowler

Its fine to play around with the sets to see what works and what doesnt, but imho it important to have a good idea of mechanics\physics to be able to forsee what can help and what may actually be slowing you down, you could be doing changes that will help you greatly, while at the same time have other settings that will be countering that. AFAIK scawen is working on a patch to fix the front end being really high glitch, it is a glitch, having the front end very high should be loosing you a lot of front downforce, but since its S2 alpha thats not happening .

I guess now is a good moment to post that link again:
http://www.mulsannescorner.com/diffuser.htm
Basically, if the front is raised, the whole flat bottom will not work.

Hey guys,

I'm pretty new to this game, so I really enjoy reading posts like these.
But I have a short question, everywhere you look around you only find WR setups. Setupfield, in the forums, exept the easy race setups from bob, but what if I need a setup for an XF GTR or something like that? Where do I find these?

Cheers,
Simon

Quote from steini :

Hey guys,

I'm pretty new to this game, so I really enjoy reading posts like these.
But I have a short question, everywhere you look around you only find WR setups. Setupfield, in the forums, exept the easy race setups from bob, but what if I need a setup for an XF GTR or something like that? Where do I find these?

Cheers,
Simon

On the servers :P Just ask people. I have a little collection of XRR setups from my ESCC races. They are relatively easy to drive and can get within one second of the WRs. If you want them, PM me

And setups are VERY important if you want to be competitive. It's been like that in S1, and now with downforce etc. in S2 a bad setup can cost you even more seconds (and tires).
Of course you first need to be able to get around the track quickly ===> smoothly. If you look at quick replays, notice how little corrections the drivers make to their steering input.
But still, the setup ultimatly limits how fast you can get around a track. When we share setups in ther German community we often say "Ok, this set is good for low 1.43s". Because that simply is the fastest that set can go on a 'perfect' lap.
But there always is room for improvement on the setup side and if you're willing to invest the time you can probably make it faster.

Being fast in LFS is all about investing time! In this aspect, LFS is very realistic, since time is money and in real life you have to invest a lot of money to be fast

Well i was actualy expecting to be flamed and kicked out the "LFS CLUB" for posting this topic, so having some of the best drivers come in here and back it up was a nice suprise

steini..

That is actualy a good question, personly i dont advise it at all, that is use anyone elses set BUT please bear in mind thats just my sugestion to you not a rule..

yes i have have recived sets from other drivers and not one worked for me, BUT what they are good for is looking at how they have set up the car, you would be suprised at what you learn from that alone...

the reason i dont like using other drivers sets is that the change from set to set is so diverse, yu can go from a setup wich has a good amount of understeer to a set that will swap ands on you in a flash and if you dont know what causes this in a set then you carnt do much about it, plus you will (promise ya) be jumping from set to set hoping to find one that suits you, and to be honest the chances are slim..

as i said stick with a set and lap lap lap and lap some more, once you are lapping near every lap perfectly and getting consistent times then you can think about your setup, now go into the garage select the set you have been using then under the sets list select "new" and name it, this new set will be identicle to the set you have been learning on as it was selected...

now you know whats comming next... lap some more only this time you should know the car well enough and the track to find the points were you think the car is finding it tough, i almost always set my brakes up first and this has been known to take me 50 laps, some drivers dont look on brakes as a big thing to set up but i do as you get it wrong you will have tire temp problems latter and lets face it bracking is were you loose the most time if your not on the ball...

i could go on for days here so get as much info on seting up YOUR OWN car, make small adjustmets and do a few laps forget about times for now FEEL the car and feel the changes, ask for advice on the setup forum i learnt a shed load off the LFS RSC forums, it takes time but stick with it, myself personly have only worked on 3-4 sets the longest one in the making was westhill, months i have been tweaking it, now i can do low 1.26's nearly every lap high 1.25's if i push and its doing 20 laps before i need to change the tires, online its more than competative and its not a handfull to drive.. ("times are with the FO8 as thats all i race really)

its way more fun to setup your own race car and if you dont i think you are missing out on half of the awsome sim., there are lots of realy good drivers on here who are always happy to help the new driver, go for it m8....

Hey!

Woohoo, what a good post, saved in a document, thanks bro!

Simon

I'd say i was a medium-fast driver, but i always make my own setups.

i agree with Gizz 100%

Personally, if its a new car/track combo im playing with then i'll drive Race_1 setup untill ive got the track and basic lines 'burned' into my brain, then i'll adjust gears and brakes, only then do i start looking for what the track/car needs (slowspeed exit traction or high speed corner stability etc)

then if i change track layout (ie still aston) i will use another of my setups for that track as the 'base' of the next setup.

for example ive been developing my fxr Aston Historic setup and getting 2.27 laps in race, im now playing with aston club - i used my ast hist setup for the first 15 or so laps until 'burned in' and was getting 1.04's with the unmodified setup, it was clear that i couldnt take the fast chicane quickly with this base setup, but i went down my usual setup tasks, adjusted the bracks and gears for the track, down to 1.03's straight away, ran a few races then added more downforce sorted the diff and now doing <1.02.5 much more to come (still slow in chic) but no need to rush with rash changes.

I hope this thread helps with anyone who is frustated with how people can be 'so much faster'

Just to add confusion, i will 'occationally' run someone else's setup if i cant find the way forward on my own and then use that as the base setup to work from.

Troy Mclure

When I was new to LFS, I tended to get a setup from several other quick consistant people. I would try each setup for about 20 laps (4 5lap races). I would then use the one that felt right as a base for understanding why it felt right at that particular track. I could then modify the other setups so they suited my style (and I changed my style a bit to suit the average faster setup), so that the speed remained.

Nowadays I am reasonably quick in LFS at most car/track combinations. But I'm also generally too lazy to work on my own setups MUCH. It's easier (and more enjoyable over the short term) to use someone elses setup. However, no setup has even suited me perfectly. So I always tweak anti-roll bars, camber/castor, tyre pressures and diff settings to suit me, but without losing much if any speed. If I lose too much speed (over a lap) I will return to the previous version, and try something else or just learn to drive around the issue.

For more serious races, say league races, or longer fun races, I do tend to try making setups from stratch using the principles I've learnt in the past. For this I must recommend Bob Smiths setup guide, and various suspension analysers that have been created by people (Bob Smith and Colcob spring to mind there).

Ya thanks Gizz.Helps loads. Im pretty good when it comes to racing games.Love LFS! Playin wit a keyboard at the mo which makes it a bit of a joke.Half the cars are pretty undrivable for me.Gettin a wheel soon.But thanks again for the helpful posts.

you would ask about gearing wouldnt ya

im still learning in that department look in the setup forum for the gear ratio calc, i think its on bob site/sig as far as im concerned there are way to many gearing vairiables to answer that question, but as a very simple rule of thumb and i mean simple yes your right, if your going for top spead the top end will be geard very low ...

overdoing it as you put it basicly means you wont get out of say 4th/5th gear so you have to juggle it about, thats what im going to be working on with my setups in the next week or so to try shave a few tenths!! all this for a few damn tenths! hasnt anyone got any LFS cheats!!!! hehehe

Aha, gearing questions.

To get an idea of the top speed to use on a circuit, you first need to drive it and see what top speed you can reach. At the fastest point of the circuit, note top speed and the engine rpm. If you're much past the rpm of peak power, your gearing is probably too short. If you're not reach the rpm of peak power, it's definately too tall. If you can't even make top gear, it's far too tall. In either case just plug in a top speed slightly higher than what you could reach. GRC will also show the maximum attainable speed for the current gearing setup, but don't forget you'll only hit that speed if the straight is long enough. If you're unsure about anything the answer should be in the manual, if not just pm me or post in the GRC thread in unofficial add-ons.

Setting up the gearing for top speed should only take a few laps of trial and error. Just be aware that you might need to tweak it again later as you learn the circuit more you'll have a faster exit speeds to the corners, so you might need to lengthen the gearing slightly.

Damn you bob!!

i was reading your post and the way you were going i was going to ask "isnt it a medium between top speed and corner exit speed" but you covered that in the end of your post so im going to shut up now and just follow you round the forum like a lost sheep with no parents

What a sweet image...

Quote from tristancliffe :

What a sweet image...

LMAO

Quote from thisnameistaken :

OK, time to show myself up as the noob that I really am: Bob, thanks for that explanation, but when you say "the rpm of peak power", is that value indicated on the tachometer?

Apologies for the noobish questioning, I haven't driven a car for ten years and those cars were extremely slow (an SUV and a vintage Volvo) so I can't say I ever paid any attention to performance.

No it's the rpm at which you gain peak power. This is shown in the garage, say 250hp@9765rpm

Then peak power (250bhp) occurs at 9765. After that and the power is dropping, before that and you haven't reached peak power.

You know that after car balance that you will be asking about tyre wear dont you

Troy

Quote from FlintFredstone :

You know that after car balance that you will be asking about tyre wear dont you

Troy

In that order? I usually fiddle camber and tyre pressure to start with and then start worrying about balance. Sometimes you need to go back and tweak if you dramatically change the ride height but if you do it afterwards you have to fiddle the balance of the car all over again.

Sticky Anyone?

well im pleased this post as helped a few of you, if i get time in the next few days ill post a few pointers to get you guys started on your setups (ill post that in the setup forum though)...

thisnameistaken

I have seen people on the forums give tire pressure guides but personly there isnt one in my opinion, there are so many other things that effect it, the largest is obviously the track your running the setup on!, just a VERY simple example here, if your running a track with a lot of low speed corners (heavy breaking/high traction exits) i would MORE THAN LIGHTLY run low"er" pressures, but i only race the FO8 so things might be a little different on the other cars.. for a high speed track with high speed corners the tires are going to get worm pretty quick so i may run higher pressures...

but really there way to many things that dictate this to say with any accuracy, another is your driving style, if your a smooth driver you will set your car up for that type drive but there is soooo mutch, i have just tried my WestHill setup (fo8) with a heavy fuel load, and to be honest ive been lucky as its drives just as smooth with no nasty habits but belive me there aint many times that happens normaly you hve to go back through and adjust everyhting up a few notches so yu get a good medium thats why i suggest you always set the car up from the start with a medium fuel load so when your done it should be pretty good at both ends of the spectrum ...