how can one human controlled brake pedal beat 4 computer controlled ones? Seriously? Given entirely optimum surface and vehicle conditions, then perhaps, but in non optimum, real world, repeated tests?
I'd say it's calibration, an experienced driver has more control than a computer, a computer is preprogrammed to react in certain circumstances, it is more precise because it can react faster to change than humans can, but humans have the ability to monitor and adjust for unexpected ( read non programmed) changes, conditions etc, but the ABS programming cannot take into account every possible combination and solution and variable
We can read the road situation ahead abs can't that I know of, we can modulate for different road surfaces and adjust techniques before we get to the surface
It's hard to explain but I can out plug most abs on wet roads and gravel by a fair margin, emergency stops? Well as I said before in all but 100klm plus crash stops I can play the abs by jab braking same thing.
I have 35 plus years of driving experience inc trucks sports etc abs doesn't
and i think in your own car you feel the cars characteristics, know its quirks etc I'm sure you know what I mean.
We can put up cold clinical graphs, scientific tests till the cows come home, but I believe a driver has more ability to control a car in all situations involving braking than any current productionabs system
Because of the way ABS is set up. ABS is not set up in real cars to just produce optimum braking but to allow the driver some control whilst braking really fast. If that ABS system was set up to produce optimum results for braking alone, the fine, but it wouldn't be in a real car.
so you have the left wheels in a puddle, the right wheels on dry tarmac, yet somehow, 35 years of track driving experience can overcome the limitation of one brake pedal? 
What if the ABS system is put in a 35 year old car? What then, eh?
Old ABS fo'shaw wouldn't be much cop. But you look at the Merc C-class which has been running ABS (Or braking assists, aids, whatever. All adds up the same way.) for well over 30 years. Are you telling me that the new Merc can't out break a human? On virtually any road condition? Granted, humans can react to the unknown very well, but they very rarely react in the correct manner. I have the reaction times of Nigel Mansell if what you want during an accident is a stream of imaginative explietives. If you want controlled cadence braking you'll be lucky to get it from me.
Modern ABS with all it's wheel sensors, suspension settings, et al is far more comprehensive than pure man power. ABS allows the lowest common denominator, the school run house wife in the chelsea tractor, to blithly jam the brake pedal to the ground and the AB . . . 'The all wheel control centre' will allow her to make the red light that she so nearly missed without even spilling her coffee or upsetting her minature Dachshund. She doesn't have a clue about the physics involved and wouldn't know what Cadence braking was even if it came up and repeatedle smacked her around the head.
Modern ABS will not treat the car as a generic entity to stop the fastest way possibe. Modern ABS looks at each wheel, yaw factors, steering imputs, G force, Braking input, decibel level of the occupants screams and a myriad of other things that I have no comprehension of. I'll wager that ABS stops faster than me any day. Even old ABS.
Modern ABS with all it's wheel sensors, suspension settings, et al is far more comprehensive than pure man power. ABS allows the lowest common denominator, the school run house wife in the chelsea tractor, to blithly jam the brake pedal to the ground and the AB . . . 'The all wheel control centre' will allow her to make the red light that she so nearly missed without even spilling her coffee or upsetting her minature Dachshund. She doesn't have a clue about the physics involved and wouldn't know what Cadence braking was even if it came up and repeatedle smacked her around the head.
Modern ABS will not treat the car as a generic entity to stop the fastest way possibe. Modern ABS looks at each wheel, yaw factors, steering imputs, G force, Braking input, decibel level of the occupants screams and a myriad of other things that I have no comprehension of. I'll wager that ABS stops faster than me any day. Even old ABS.
Yes I'm sure we can all come up with situations to prove your right and I'm wrong as always, just like what happens if all the sensors fail at the same time? Lightning hits the car and kills the driver, A nuclear bomb goes off and The electromagnetic pulse fries the abs etc etc par infinitum
Some of you blokes just live to argue and stir I won't bother anymore
Its late been a very long 3 or four days and i need sleep
Night Blowtus, Night Bob boy
Wish we still had choke knobs to pull out on startup. I was so much better at it than the damn computer 
A crank handle and a manual fuel primer. Oh those where the days. Double De-clutching and flys in the teeth.
A gay trip to Bogner and back intime for tea and medals. Chin chin what. Poop poop.
We dreamed of ABS in those days. The only brakes we had was to throw the mother in law out and hoped she snagged a tree on the way past.
Abs. Honestly. What are pedestrians for if not for stopping with.
A gay trip to Bogner and back intime for tea and medals. Chin chin what. Poop poop.
We dreamed of ABS in those days. The only brakes we had was to throw the mother in law out and hoped she snagged a tree on the way past.
Abs. Honestly. What are pedestrians for if not for stopping with.
ABS may or may not be better than a good driver braking. But it's a hell of a lot better than most drivers today at braking. In fact the majority of modern drivers are so bad at braking (even in an emergency) that the ABS doesn't even kick in, which is why a lot of newer cars now 'sense' how quickly the brakes were applied and boosts them so the ABS kicks in.
However, regardless of ALL of this, ABS is for big girly drivers who have no passion or ability for driving.
However, regardless of ALL of this, ABS is for big girly drivers who have no passion or ability for driving.
I can believe that a good driver can stop faster than ABS in a 10 year old road car. Partly because the systems are fairly crude, liable to malfunction over time and in a road car not be too aggresive.
In a racing car though it's a different story. Just like with TC there's no questioning a racing ABS system would be faster than humanly possible people (including myself) don't like them in concept because it reduces the challenge and skill required to drive a car and increases budgets. I'd love to see a proper test of a GT car such as the Aston DBR9 with a world class driver vs ABS.
In a racing car though it's a different story. Just like with TC there's no questioning a racing ABS system would be faster than humanly possible people (including myself) don't like them in concept because it reduces the challenge and skill required to drive a car and increases budgets. I'd love to see a proper test of a GT car such as the Aston DBR9 with a world class driver vs ABS.
It was a stopping comparison, the driver was one of the students. It was a emergency stopping distance comparison with lowish speed about 50-60km/h, and in those current conditions and with that car the distance was shorter with ABS on (the track might have been litle moist, not sure), few meters could save that pederestian I suppose. This kind of test offcourse isn't scientifical because it wasn't repeated and so on, and I don't know if you can trust it. And I believe you can stop quicker without ABS if you are focused to the braking and know that soon I brake, but can you do it when you have to. In sudden situation, a moose jumps on the road for example, the usuall around here, the common reaction if you make any, is to push the clutch and brake fully down. So does it matter what you have then? You can't be 100% focused on the traffic about your brakes. And I really wan't every one of those bastards on the road have ABS and actually every aid they can have on their cars. Why? Because I don't want those not-so-skilfull drivers crashing on to me. It does't really help if I can dodge the raindeers and slow down from 80km/h if the next muppet coming up doesn't. Tristan can drive without, just because I know I won't see you driving here
Ah, Shannon, I would love to hear the other guy's side of this particular story, mate.
True story:
"I had an accident on the highway the other day. A car cut across me so I broke hard and I felt the pedal pulsate so I thought the brakes are broken. I just lifted off the pedal and crashed.
"A mother in law? You were lucky. We had to stop our car by crashing repeatedly into a brick wall two hours before we started the journey.
And you try telling that to young people today...
Aye. when you could drink a bottle of Chateau di Chasolaite and still drive.
'Whilst 'oldin Bottle.'
'With c'pper asking for a drink.'
'Aye.'
'We used to have to make roads.'
'And pay council for prv'lage of using 'em.'
'You where lucky.'
'Whilst 'oldin Bottle.'
'With c'pper asking for a drink.'
'Aye.'
'We used to have to make roads.'
'And pay council for prv'lage of using 'em.'
'You where lucky.'
Exception: Snow. It forms a wedge ahead of the wheel which assists in braking. One more reason I wish I had an ABS button on my Saab.
And one more reason why ABS should be part of the driving test... Doh!
Shall I tell him or will you?
and also the brakes lock very easily, and thus the abs takes the brake off, thus abs actually stops you from braking!
...on snow only. However in winter, most of the time you'll be driving on a thin layer of ice so in the majority of cases (95%+) ABS will actually help a bad driver in stopping quicker.
Yes, atleast here the snow on the road packs up in to a very solid layer of snow, and it can be like ice sometimes, it does not help you stopping. But in UK I suppose the snow is....well, you don't have proper snow. Or do you? :P
I heard about a lady once, and she was sitting in her car, in a lane to turn left, and she saw a car coming up behind her, and she knew he couldn't stop.. Guess what she did... She pulled off... no... She hit the brakes and pulled up the handbrake!
ABS is usefull, there are a lot of people out there that need it...
http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=145771#post145771
http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=154545#post154545
if the snow turns to ice it should have some sand on it (otherwise your road seaty department is well ... crap) for which the same rules as loose snow and gravel apply
(Shotglass)
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by Shotglass
Oh believe it we do, just thankfully it's quite rare so only on a few days of the year.
Except for the Scottish who get loads of it, but then the rain next day just washes it away
...If you brake using ABS, then you are limited by the ABS.
If you brake without ABS, you are limited only by your skills.
If you brake without ABS, you are limited only by your skills.
Note that that curve ends at 0.8, where as mine does so at 1.0. If you continue the curve supplied by Todd you will see that the car will loose 20-25% of its braking ability with fully locked wheels which is close enough to what I said.
Deliberately locking wheels under braking?
(115 posts, started )
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