On normal roads I always use only one hand at 12 or at 9. I drive one handed even at winter. On track with real cars or kart or what ever I use 9-3.
I use one hand to yack on the cell phone and the other to flip off the other drivers... I steer with my knees.
Actually I kinda drive with a 10-2 positioning - sorta. My work commute is
50 miles a day with 30% of that locked in a gridlock. my hands are all over the wheel. YOU sit still for an hour & a half and try to keep your hands in the exact same position.
... Oh and I do steer with my knees occasionally.
Actually I kinda drive with a 10-2 positioning - sorta. My work commute is
50 miles a day with 30% of that locked in a gridlock. my hands are all over the wheel. YOU sit still for an hour & a half and try to keep your hands in the exact same position.
... Oh and I do steer with my knees occasionally.
Wow, what a bunch of ignorant misinformed DANGEROUS drivel !
Do you have any understanding of human anatomy ?
Where you are placing your hands in fig6 , it's mostly the muscles of the wrists and arms that control the wheel. When the hands are placed at 9-3 or 10-2, it's the much stronger muscles of the upper back, shoulders and chest that do the work.
Your hand placement also makes it more difficult to feed the wheel without crossing your arms - this also reduces the level of muscular strength you have to control the car.
You would think with all the millions thay have for research that the F1 guys would have their wheels designed for maximum control ? where do they put their hands ? yep at 9 - 3
I just grab my balls with one hand and steer with the other. Though, in LFS I tend to leave my private parts intact.
Cars with no power steering require both hands on the wheel in corners though
Oh my
(I can't deny that using both hands more is precise/powerful than using just one hand. But going straight at 100kph doesn't take too much steering. Unless I get into an accident...)
Cars with no power steering require both hands on the wheel in corners though
Oh my
(I can't deny that using both hands more is precise/powerful than using just one hand. But going straight at 100kph doesn't take too much steering. Unless I get into an accident...)
No, they don't. I would have been dead right right now, if it were so
Most of the time in my car I drive 9-3, just sometimes on the Autobahn or streets I know well I turn into relax-mode
In LFS however, I tend to mistreat my DFP by grabbing it hard and jerking it around... a thing I wouldn't ever do to my poor little car
Sorry, I genuinely thought the serious tone was meant in irony... Your figure for how to safely hold the steering wheel is a joke, surely?..
If not, i'm glad we dont drive on the same public roads, or as the great Stirling Moss once said, "Just because you havn't had an accident in 20 years doesn't make you a safe driver. It could be that you're driving so badly everyone has been avoiding you."
The funny thing about that is I saw an interview with somebody who had been driven by Stirling Moss describing how he came off a motorway junction at 115mph driving one handed and counter steering around the exit roundabout ... whilst the other hand changed the tape in the radio.
Well, thats the WHOLE point !!!
Thats the whole point of most rules of the road - it's not what happens in normal conditions - it's what happens in extraordinary conditions e.g. when a stray pedestrian turns a straight road into an instant high speed slalom...
or the guy coming the other way has a seizure and veers into your path at 70mph...
having both hands on the wheel in a 'correct' position could be the difference between a week off work with whiplash and instant death, or years of remorse and emotional pain after killing a child... !
Am I the only one bothered with that? I wonder if I'll ever get a week off work for whiplash and instant death... And about the child... I know it's harsh, but I feel a lot of accidents with children happen not because of the drivers, but parents that don't pay attention to their children. Now everywhere in Belgium, around school areas, are limited to 30KM/H. That's just insane...
The thing with pedestrians these days is, they seem to be the greatest, and drivers are the fault of everything. But if you look how those children on their bikes, drive on the streets, crossing streets where they should stop, but they just cross because they EXPECT the drivers stop anyway... That's just plain wrong.
I agree flippy, last year I did my first ever real emergency stop. I was driving along a narrow road, quite slowly because of cars pulling out of a parking rank, doing aout 15mph (30mph limit). A kid riding along the pavement was being silly dragging his hand across shop fronts and fell off his bike and into the road. I slammed on the anchors and he dissapeared out of my view beneath my bonnet, thankfully i'd stopped just short - it must have been measurable in millimetres!
The kid got up, looked at me like I was driving on the pavement or something, and rode off... !
The kid got up, looked at me like I was driving on the pavement or something, and rode off... !
i think you might get time off with an injury, but death would send you to the graveyard... of course you could end up strapped to a chair for decades, pooing into a bag and being spoon fed baby food.
Its not harsh, it's ridiculous. Children have to be given freedom and some responsibility if they are to learn and develop into adults - would you have them chaparoned by an adult 100% of the time ?
Unfortunately children often cause accidents - they are children, they are sometimes irresponsible, they have less sophisticated awareness of danger etc.. Drivers on the other hand are adults and should know better. If a child runs into the road and dies in an accident in which a driver was being irresponsible, the accident may have been the childs fault, but the death could have been avoidable BY THE DRIVER!. If the driver could have avoided the child by driving at the correct speed or paying full attention or holding the wheel correctly, then it's them that will have to live the rest of their lives with that death on their conscience.
I've seen as many cars doing stupid dangerous things as pedestrians and cyclists - it's human nature to take risks. The difference is that drivers are in charge of a very dangerous piece of machinery whereas pedestrians and cyclists are not. As a driver it is your responsibility to be 'defensive' and safe, and obey the rules - they are there for good reasons, even if you're not willing (or too stupid) to acknowledge those reasons...
Keep death off the roads!!!!
Drive on the pavement
Drive on the pavement
I think it's far more important to not grip the wheel too hard, as you loose a large amount of fine control. For sim racing though I think seating and pedal position in a far bigger thing to worry about.
I have the problem of having the pedals, chair, and steering wheel having far too great a height difference due to my desk not being designed with a sim racers needs in mind. I've tried putting my pedals on a box but due to insufficent leg room (it's a corner desk) you have to sit with your arms stretched.
I have the problem of having the pedals, chair, and steering wheel having far too great a height difference due to my desk not being designed with a sim racers needs in mind. I've tried putting my pedals on a box but due to insufficent leg room (it's a corner desk) you have to sit with your arms stretched.
Yes, I'm stupid, everyone here knows it by now.
But those cyclists have rules too, and if they would obey their own rules, the drivers wouldn't need to be so defensive. I don't know how it where you live, but over here, cyclists (on a roundabout for example), they just cross the street (while there is painted on the tarmac, and there is a sign that tells them they have to stop). Is that normal then??
About the children, I know you should be carefull, and keep to the speeds, but I'm talking about unsupervised children, wich can suddenly ran onto the streets from let's say two parked cars. You can't see it, you can do nothing about it, but guess who gets the blame huh?
If you see "F1" anywhere in my post, please tell me, because i distinctively remember i tried to examine the daily routine driving.
Thank you for your deconstructive and harsh critisism.
You (or Moss) wouldn't last a minute in greek traffic without a crash. I've proven myself worthy countless times having avoided being smashed to bits(and having saved numerous ignorant lives that pop out "apparently" out of nowhere) by the general chaos and disorganization around me. The only time my car was in an accident was when it was parked. I've spent every single day since i learned driving to analyse everything that can be analysed, from the length of the car to the color of the car. I've gone karting with some guys who were all the time gloating about their mad skillz and pwned them the first time i raced round that track. I have avoided cars coming up from behind me, sliding with brakes locked, while i was waiting at the light. You can guess how, but in the time i had gone out of harm's way, you wouldn't even have geared in first. They (4 girls in a tiny car) just grazed the rear right of my bumper.
And you were going at 15mph when there was a human (a kid on a bike, specificaly) within 10 feet?
shut up.
hehe. here in Scotland, most cyclists seems to ride on the pavement because there are enough idiot driver to make the roads too damn dangerous - i gave up cycling years ago because i refuse to cycle on the pavement, My biggest fear was moms on 'the school run' who seemed to ignore anything smaller than a bus as 'not a threat to my kiddies'.
I havn't seen nearly as many cyclists missing stop signs and jumping red lights as cars - I guess cycling gives you a hightened sense of your own mortality
Supervised children can also run into the road - somtimes because they've just been told not to !!!!. You can do something about it - you can do your utmost to minimise the severity of an accident if one should happen... if you see kids on the pavement ahead, prepare for a surprise attack - and don't forget to beep you horn and swear at the little B*****ds when they do stupid things
Someone might misunderstand my previous post as boasting about being "uncrashable".
This is not the message i am trying to convey. I am constantly analysing the surrounding area and vehicles for any potential danger. Not a single moment i rest assured that "i will brake early and safely". I always drive having in mind "what if i brake and it starts skidding?" "What if there is something i haven't yet seen?", and i am alert constantly.
This is not the message i am trying to convey. I am constantly analysing the surrounding area and vehicles for any potential danger. Not a single moment i rest assured that "i will brake early and safely". I always drive having in mind "what if i brake and it starts skidding?" "What if there is something i haven't yet seen?", and i am alert constantly.
you gave some pseudo scientific theory about hand positioning related to muscle control - the same muscles are used to turn the wheel in an F1 car as in a road car - so my point about F1 using 9 - 3 hand position is totally relevant to your post
you are most welcome - fwiw, the reason i was harsh and critical is that you were expounding some obviously (to me) flawed theory that if taken as correct, could make someone a more dangerous driver - that is a serious issue, and not the place for niceties and good humour.
So you are a self proclaimed great driver - and none of us would have survived what you have - not ever, coz we are all rubish compared to you...
none of which makes your original post any less wrong, stupid irresponsible, dangerous etc.
When i was a kid, my dad used to drive his car with his hands on the top of the wheel like in your fig6. The thing is that he had arms like popeye, So for him the loss of muscular control between the different hand positions was less significant - maybe you also have arms like popeye... that still doesn't make your theory any less wrong, false, etc.
you shut up... fool :mr-t:
I did. (at least that you were less crashable than us)
A most comendable attitude.
still doesn't make your theory about hand positioning less wrong
(Michael Denham)
DELETED
by Michael Denham
So, you are arguing that left hand positioning, during a left turn, during daily driving (not formula racing), should be as fig.7 and not as fig.8 (you can try this in your own car)
No, whatever gave you that idea ?
I'm not sure about how they teach you to drive in Greece, but here in the UK, they teach you to 'feed' the wheel through your hands, so if you're driving 'correctly' you left hand would have been moved upwards to a more comfortable position long before it reached the one in your 'fig.7'.
i found a site with an animation of the 'correct' method (in the UK)turn your volume down if you don't want the audio instructions blaring out.
http://www.2pass.co.uk/steering.htm
Your words, not mine.
Maybe i am tall enough that the 9-3 position doesn't suit me (my father is even taller and he can't easily fit in the driver's seat so he holds the wheel almost at the top. Then again, he is rather well built.)
Let's just leave this to rest. I gave my reasoning for my thoughts, anyone can try in their own car and experiment.
the shuffling
oh no, the very embodiment of all that i wanted to avoid.
This is exactly how i thought i should steer when i began learning driving. I was steering exactly like that in the beginning.
I can't begin with what i see wrong in that.
- Many small and successively opposite movements to achieve significant rotation.
- using only one hand to actually move the wheel, always (even at the beginning of steering)
- only one hand gripping the wheel while turning.
- preparatory movement to initiate the turn! So if this kind of turning becomes second nature, when immediate action is required... what will happen?!
- hands move in opposite directions (clockwise/anticlockwise) touching the wheel, possibly causing friction, confusion.
- inability to steer fast (reminds me of this trick where you tap the left front part of your chest with the left hand and brush the right part with your right hand).
- hand tries to push up which is not very efficient.
- It is ridiculed even at top-gear, for heaven's sake!
In fig8, the right hand is ready to continue the downward motion on its own, momentarily, while the left one goes up and grips, ready to take over.
yer push pull as we brits sometimes call it is rubbish, its caused many police accidents in high speed driving and the hands cant keep up! its slow, it wastes your energy and if your hands dont move from one place on the wheel you ALWAYS know where the wheel is pointing
i find that in my CLASSIC mini i have to hold the wheel where in firure 6 your hand is but at the bottom not at the top as where the seat is and where the wheel is i cant reach the top of the wheel. but in my girlys civic type r i hold it similar to your fig 6 but a blit lower, but only due to the angle of the wheel and seating possition again
LFS tho is differnt tho, its a game and i find i like to cross my arms and feel like *coughs* tiff needel or someone similar! to be honest tho i feel its just personal preferance, and if you cant hold on without giving yourself cramp, try changing your setting maybe? lol
i find that in my CLASSIC mini i have to hold the wheel where in firure 6 your hand is but at the bottom not at the top as where the seat is and where the wheel is i cant reach the top of the wheel. but in my girlys civic type r i hold it similar to your fig 6 but a blit lower, but only due to the angle of the wheel and seating possition again
LFS tho is differnt tho, its a game and i find i like to cross my arms and feel like *coughs* tiff needel or someone similar! to be honest tho i feel its just personal preferance, and if you cant hold on without giving yourself cramp, try changing your setting maybe? lol
from 2pass.co.uk, for a downhill start:
This is so so wrong... The car won't "begin to move"; the car will lurch downwards! When the clutch is just biting, the car wants to move (add gravity to that) and the only thing holding it back is the footbrake. This way you are needlessly slipping the clutch... You don't need additional power to start downhill, you have gravity to help you.
Just release the footbrake, roll in neutral for the first few feet, and, depending on speed, engage either 1st or 2nd...
Or, in appropriately timed succession, with 1st in gear and the clutch fully depressed, release the footbrake and then the clutch.
However, these methods are not for when learning the car. When learning the car it might be better to use the site's method, i am not very sure, i am not a teacher.
I can start my car (1.4l) on steep uphills, just with clutch, NO accelerator pedal, NO handbrake
Oh, and a little important detail (detail indeed, but important). the site proclaims "practice makes perfect". NO! practice makes permanent. Perfect practice makes perfect!
This is so so wrong... The car won't "begin to move"; the car will lurch downwards! When the clutch is just biting, the car wants to move (add gravity to that) and the only thing holding it back is the footbrake. This way you are needlessly slipping the clutch... You don't need additional power to start downhill, you have gravity to help you.
Just release the footbrake, roll in neutral for the first few feet, and, depending on speed, engage either 1st or 2nd...
Or, in appropriately timed succession, with 1st in gear and the clutch fully depressed, release the footbrake and then the clutch.
However, these methods are not for when learning the car. When learning the car it might be better to use the site's method, i am not very sure, i am not a teacher.
I can start my car (1.4l) on steep uphills, just with clutch, NO accelerator pedal, NO handbrake
Oh, and a little important detail (detail indeed, but important). the site proclaims "practice makes perfect". NO! practice makes permanent. Perfect practice makes perfect!
yes, in a full sized wheel i place it a little lower as well and not exactly as i show in fig6... look in fig8 a little earlier to understand where!
Get a grip!
(75 posts, started )
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