Interesting. This is a prime example of how we were told not to do it in driving school
Interesting. This is a prime example of how we were told not to do it in driving school
...and other harsh comments about my driving. Which you've never seen, witnessed or experienced.
Is the wrong person being told to shut up?
I could rattle on, like you did, of the many accidents i've averted and the many maniacs i've dodged... we've all had to do it, you dont need Greek roads for that - heck, i've driven in Portugal, Spain and the Baellerics! Slap that on your t-shirt... !
You have far too many assumptions, and absolutely no grounding. In fact your attitude toward me is based purely on the fact that I thought your original post was a joke, which I did because you advocated as the "safest" way to hold a steering wheel something which was quite comical.
I could write a scientific sounding post about how to cross a road by not looking and running, with your speed determined by the number of lanes.
It wouldn't make crossing the road safe, but if I use enough long words I can make it sound so. Likewise, if you sound scientific you can make an American Congresman try to ban water...
I should imagine Sir Stirling Moss would do OK on Greek roads too btw... He's something of an advocate of road safety these days, as well as the greatest driver never to have won the world championship. I think you are perhaps assuming too much of your analysical skills to pre-judge the great mans prowess on your home turf. The man's driven in a lot of countries, and if I may allow myself also to be a bit pressumptuous, probably more than yourself.
How were you told to do it ?
Just one bit of advice from me. Try moving your steering wheel higher up or your seat lower down! It's practically in your lap in those pictures so no wonder the angle of your wrists is so crazy. The steering wheel ideally needs to be positioned so your hands are about the same level as your shoulders when at rest (so at 9-3). I think this web page will explain it all rather well http://e30m3performance.com/my ... tion/driving_position.htm
We were told to do it like race car drivers... Just think of it: If the 9-3 position wouldn't be the best way to control your car (especially in extreme situations) in the most relaxed way (most races last longer than people drive every day), why would race drivers even bother to do so?
If you want to add to the discussion, do so! but mocking the original thread is equal to mocking every one who takes it seriously, as they should!
i started the mistake of giving any significance to your original post! and i will end it!
if you want to mock, do it elsewhere! not here!
If anyone seriously thinks this kind of "reasoning" has ANY resemblance to what i write in my initial post, please say so, because i think this is pure sarcasm.
bbman, arosamike: we are not racing drivers. i am talking about daily driving. What race drivers do is not related to driving in the streets. Do you prepare your daily walk like athletes? No.
Yes, in the pic the appearance is distorted because i moved about to take the photos, when i sit properly everything is lined up as it should. Also, the appearance is exaggerated, but you can go see how it works for you.
I just noticed the inclusion of 10-2. Yes, that is the position i am suggesting. i am NOT placing my hands on top. they are just in the position that my "pinky "fingers do NOT rest on the wheel arm. I think that is exactly what you are talking.
I used the momo pictures only as a rough estimate. See fig8.
We were basically been told 10-2 or 9-3, however we liked it best, and for turning, instead of shuffling we release the bottom hand and grip over the top hand, just like in LFS.
How is it different? The main issue here and there is a relaxed position (so that you can drive longer distances as well), AND keeping as much control as possible at all times... So tell me, WHERE THE HELL do you see a difference?
To answer your question: Walking like the athletes do, looks kinda weird (due to regulations), so no... But I'm riding a bicycle or a horse or run in the same way an athlete would do it, just not in such a fast pace... And it's the same in a car...
What athletes do, they do for a reason! It's not just that they thought: "Oh, let's do this that way cause it looks more impressive!" And something, which is good enough for the elite, can't be bad for the rest of the world, or does it?
Please try to not just ignore others people arguments...
George, I appreciate that you've given this a lot of thought. Personally, I prefer the 9-3 position for most vehicles. Vehicles I had in the past with large diameter steering wheels and no power steering, I used 10-2. To question is what allows us to advance (people used to think the world was flat). Around where I live, many people seem to prefer the one wrist on top of wheel, leaning to the side so your head is in the middle of the car position. 
LOL I bet YOU wouldn't last a SECOND in Vegas Traffic, once the people from L.A. start showing up
For the last time. I am not talking about racing. I am talking about daily driving. The purpose is completely different, the situation is very different, the machine is very different. You see similarities and relations where there aren't any significant similarities and relations. I tried to approach the matter with a clean slate, drawing from my experience driving in urban and rural areas and evaluating possible methods by thinking and experimentation (only when completely safe: in a large LARGE parking lot).
Others, doing so, reached the conclusion that the best way to hold the wheel is from under the wheel, at 8-4. I do not know exactly at what point in their thinking it happened, but something went terribly wrong.
Others, doing so, reached the conclusion that the best way to hold the wheel is from under the wheel, at 8-4. I do not know exactly at what point in their thinking it happened, but something went terribly wrong.
Quite possibly! But i don't go about in people's threads and make comments like "First rate comedy.
". What was this comment anyway? Now that i evaluate that comment with a clearer mind than before, i can see that this is plain unwarranted sarcasm. I made the mistake to confront that person and it only led to frustration (at least for me, i do not know about the other person) because if someone has it in their mind that you are only worthy of laughs it is not very possible for that person to see things having a properly critical stance, is it?
... uhhh what?
any ways... lighten up dude. I don't think anyone was trying to be insulting or belittle the thread you started
Look you have a very valid point concerning daily driving and the effects of where your hands are at in relation to the wheel... I understood what you were going on about and it makes sense...to a point.
If you wanna know the truth. there's all kinds of factors that determine where you have your hands at on the wheel.
Ever take a road trip...oh, like over 1000 miles (a BUNCH of KMs)?
If you were to leave your hands in the same "uber-position" for just half that distance, it will mess you up. You'll get a sort of atropy type effect.
your hands' circulation would slow down - not to mention your arms would get REALLY tired. and that would really mess with your reaction times...
enough to cancel out any benefits you had keeping you hands at 10-2 or
9-3 or 12-6 or whatever
You need to move your hands a bit from time to time. You can't just keep them in place the whole drive and I think that applies to racing as well.
I notice on In car views, the driver's do move their hands around.
Agreed. But this is a whole different deal, driving for hours on end.
Personaly, if there is a really long straight on a highway or somewhere without much risk (read: traffic), i just go at about 80kph on the right lane, with my left hand hanging on the lower part of the wheel , listening to music and looking around. most exciting think that could happen is a blown tyre.
Yes i've driven such distances, but never for more than 3 hours at a time, less if i feel uneasy.
Of course keeping your hands at 10-2 or 9-3 or anywhere constantly when not necessary to do so is dangerous because at the very least they would numb due to immobility(i imagine, not sure...).
Yes, i feel that becky rose was belittling my thread and my effort. I do not think there is any other way i can interpret "first rate comedy". How would you interpret it?
I am trying to analyse and discuss the finer points in steering. It is taken for granted that common sense still applies, to more or less simpler matters like: don't grip too hard that you get tired, don't ever let the wheel without at least one hand gripping it, take rests, and a million other significant details that don't need much thought or effort to sort out...
Personaly, if there is a really long straight on a highway or somewhere without much risk (read: traffic), i just go at about 80kph on the right lane, with my left hand hanging on the lower part of the wheel , listening to music and looking around. most exciting think that could happen is a blown tyre.
Yes i've driven such distances, but never for more than 3 hours at a time, less if i feel uneasy.
Of course keeping your hands at 10-2 or 9-3 or anywhere constantly when not necessary to do so is dangerous because at the very least they would numb due to immobility(i imagine, not sure...).
Yes, i feel that becky rose was belittling my thread and my effort. I do not think there is any other way i can interpret "first rate comedy". How would you interpret it?
I am trying to analyse and discuss the finer points in steering. It is taken for granted that common sense still applies, to more or less simpler matters like: don't grip too hard that you get tired, don't ever let the wheel without at least one hand gripping it, take rests, and a million other significant details that don't need much thought or effort to sort out...
Now THAT would be a security risk for me, as I'd probably fall asleep :sleep2:
(sorry for derail)
So you're the type of guy that slows down the truck drivers over here? That causes huge traffic jams because every truck will try to pass you, wich takes half an hour because your speed difference is only 10km/h. The minimum speed on the highway here is 70KM/H... The highway is meant for faster traffic, and if everyone drives the correct meant to be speed (120 for cars, 90 for trucks) than it would all go very smoothly, but it's those people that drive something in between, or even slower that jam the whole thing up. 
illepall
illepallI would have to be someone really really stupid to do something like that, right? Does this appear to be in agreement with all that i've said up until now?
Let's get out of the way that on the specific road that i use, trucks are not allowed during daytime. Second, you should see how fast trucks go around here. third, your "highway" is something completely different than our "highway". Our "highway" has one lane per traffic direction, riddled with holes, bad quality tarmac, etcetcetc.
no, i do not annoy truck drivers or buses or other traffic when i drive at that 'road'. which, incidentaly, for the most part, has a top speed of 80kph jesus.
BESIDES:
:beady:
No it wouldn't. Not here in greece, at least.
Let's get out of the way that on the specific road that i use, trucks are not allowed during daytime. Second, you should see how fast trucks go around here. third, your "highway" is something completely different than our "highway". Our "highway" has one lane per traffic direction, riddled with holes, bad quality tarmac, etcetcetc.
no, i do not annoy truck drivers or buses or other traffic when i drive at that 'road'. which, incidentaly, for the most part, has a top speed of 80kph jesus.
BESIDES:
:beady:
No it wouldn't. Not here in greece, at least.
Lol, how can I help it I didn't know how shitty your roads are? No wonder you guys drive so slow. And that's not a highway, but more of an expresway then.
And over here trucks are allowed to drive during the day, only at certain times they aren't allowed to take over.
And over here trucks are allowed to drive during the day, only at certain times they aren't allowed to take over.
Ok, we're in agreement then:drink: :Handshake
I would wonder why they DON'T go so slow. Every weekend there are 10-20 accidents there.
it's time... :sleep1:
I would wonder why they DON'T go so slow. Every weekend there are 10-20 accidents there.
it's time... :sleep1:
Haha, okay, don't call it "highway" then, because it isn't even close to resembling one. More like country road or main road.
Initialy i did not speak exclusively of a highway, but generaly about long straights were it is not risky. The whole post was to say that when it is not necessary to be on the edge (but still be alert) and i drive on a road where it is safe to do so, i have my hands in various places on the wheel. Well, i made it appear more dramatic than it is... we have proper highways with 3 lanes per traffic direction (with holes and bad quality tarmac, for the most part thought) but... *sigh* oh well... please don't draw any conclusions... you don't have to know anything about the situation here, if you ever come here you will experience it firsthand :/
hey not every nation needs roads that look like a friggin christmas tree to make traffic save ... some people know how to handle bad road conditions
Yea, they're used to it because never ever something gets fixed in those countries 
I found out that, in the end, the best overall style for everyday driving is with both hands above the horizontal diameter of the wheel.
However, the exact way of turning the wheel after the "initial turning with two hands" limit is reached, must be customised by every single person, with experimentation and observation, because each person is different and can't reach the same way like the others.
(just a quick comparison, to fend off the "schumacher holds the wheel that way so it is the best! You spew dangerous drivel!" fanboys: F1 drivers don't have to do all that because the car is configured perfectly for them. Normal cars are customizable to varying degrees, of course, but some people are too short/tall. my father is above 6 feet with long arms. there is NO WAY he can fit his hands in the 9-3 position.)
However, the exact way of turning the wheel after the "initial turning with two hands" limit is reached, must be customised by every single person, with experimentation and observation, because each person is different and can't reach the same way like the others.
(just a quick comparison, to fend off the "schumacher holds the wheel that way so it is the best! You spew dangerous drivel!" fanboys: F1 drivers don't have to do all that because the car is configured perfectly for them. Normal cars are customizable to varying degrees, of course, but some people are too short/tall. my father is above 6 feet with long arms. there is NO WAY he can fit his hands in the 9-3 position.)
Get a grip!
(75 posts, started )
FGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG