Quote from ste_ :

I mentioned that in my original post.

If there was NO AI then alpha state, sure. But there is AI in, it's just very very poor. So that arguement doesn't cut it really.

But is it completed? No! So it's in alpha state. It's really not my opinion or anything, ALPHA means: not all features are present or completed

When software is in beta state, all features are present and completed feature-wise, and it's time to fix bugs. The AI not being able to pit for instance is not a bug, it's a feature missing.

Jeez, why don't you go tell Scawen his roadmap is wrong.

Quote :

From what I know, all features of LFS are present, some just need much more work.

That's just it, you don't know if all features are present. I bet noone besides the devs know exactly what is left to be added to S2. It could probably even change from the dev's original plans (the BF1 wasn't exactly planned years ahead for instance)

Missing features: AI can't pit, there's no ground effect, collision detection is a substitute, the damage model is a substitute, different tyres (manufacturers) are planned to come with different behaviour.

Vain

I found out about RSC, somehow (I can't remember) I found out about racer, I think I was looking for a realistic driving simulator (not racing, driving). And eventually I started wondering if there were any other games on the RSC forum, and that's when I found out about LFS, I kinda left it alone for a while, but when I bought a wheel, I wanted to try again... Now I'm hooked.

Quote from joen :

Mouth to mouth advertising is the most effective marketing tool there is I found out about LFS through a topic on a tech forum I visit.
So go tell all your friends and spam forums kids

Word of mouth is currently the most effective thing for LFS, but it is not the most effective in general. Pretty much by definition, it is one person talking to one person. Effective would be one entity (magazine, commercial, website) that talks to many people.

Word of mouth is more powerful because you get a sense of belonging and more confidence when you are talking to a friend or a knowledgeable person.

Quote from ajp71 :

LFS has seperated itself from the main sim racing community and the biggest sim racing forum (RSC) this has its pros and cons

I really can't see anything negative from leaving RSC.

Putting two opposing fanbases (as much as you pray "you can like both", it still doesn't change reality) close to each other doesn't really work out, well only maybe if you get as tight-arsedly administrated as RSC. Imagining the current LFS forum in the "mood" of RSC makes me shiver, atleast I percieve it as horribly awful, whereas here we are *free*.

Basically, it is because FILSCA (because they say they need some stupid script to upload replays) need to extract their heads from somewhere half way down the body and towards the back.

With FILSCA, it might have to be "If we can't join them, beat them". Our own, say, IASRDC might be needed

Why do FILSCA only really do GTd and rFactor? They are obviously being paid for it.

Also, seeing that nobody of our members has made that script yet indicates that the LFS community probably couldn't care less about FILSCA.

Quote from Hallen :

Word of mouth is currently the most effective thing for LFS, but it is not the most effective in general. Pretty much by definition, it is one person talking to one person. Effective would be one entity (magazine, commercial, website) that talks to many people.

Word of mouth is more powerful because you get a sense of belonging and more confidence when you are talking to a friend or a knowledgeable person.

Well, I meant it not necessarily being one person talking to one other person. For instance the way I found out about LFS. I read something someone posted about LFS on a forum I visit. That's one person talking to a lot of people (16.000 member forum), but I would call that word of mouth Big difference ofcourse it being internet based and not irl. and the communication is very direct, as opposed to some guy at a magazine writing about a game.

But like you said, it's effective in the way that it's coming from someone you know or trust. "He's crazy about simracing, then it must be good"

All the ezines I've read on simracing are written by blinkered fools (of which I am one I guess, but I don't try and write unbiased essays for public consumption), so all the nK articles claim it's awesome (when it's buggy, with dodgy physics at times, and sounds no better than LFS, and has even less AI or multiplayer than LFS), all the articles on rF claim it's awesome (it's not - I've not driven one mod that feels like I think it should, and I'm not going to be THAT far out EVERY time, and they gloss over the fact that it takes about 23 human years to set up the force feedback).

RSC is (generally) badly moderated, filled with unpleasant, rude obnoxious trolls who visit every forum to stir up trouble, and it's slow to boot.
LFS does not lose anything by not being at RSC or in these ezines.

All of this in my opinion of course

^^ditto^^

Quote from tristancliffe :

LFS does not lose anything by not being at RSC

But it seperates it from the community and means people don't just pop into this forum to have a look around like I used to do sometimes with GTR/rFactor/(RSC)LFS. If it wasn't for casual browsing around the LFS section on RSC when it was still active I would never have got LFS.

I still don't get why LFS can't get on with the rest of the sim racing world, just because people like other sims does not mean they are noobends and people should accept that LFS does have flaws and is not perfect. When everything was over at RSC I saw very few sim war flame posts in the GPL/N2003/nK namie sections which I read, the LFS forum always used to be full of them and a a large amount of the few provocative threads and posts seem to come from LFS racers.

Quote from Quint999 :

To then claim no one plays it , just not true at all. Refresh the server list in steam and there are Tens of Thousands playing , probably over the hundred thousand mark if your putting Source / 1.6 together.

I never said CS is bad in general, CS:S is just crappy, even though the last patch at least stops the player from getting stuck in physics objects all the time.
CS 1.6, a game which is like 10 years old now, is still played about 3-5 times more than a new game, which was intended to be the same, just with an improved physics and graphics. Apparently, valve messed things up a bit though
stats here:
http://steampowered.com/status/game_stats.html

Sorry for OT

Yes, I agree that RSC is not always the happiest place in the world, but I'll always be grateful that it existed or I might not have drifted (if you'll excuse the expression ) over from NR2003 and GPL to the world of LFS.

I just visited at RSC in the LFS section, and its pure crap. Just ignorant trolls. I think its better to have the official forum separetly over here. It looks and is more professional I think. RSC used to be the most unreliable thing on the planest back then, before the LFS forums moved. And I think it would have been in deeb trouble during the April patch, like these forums were. And other people wouldn't liked that :P

Quote from ajp71 :

But it seperates it from the community

correction: it separates it from the RSC community.
RSC is a development cancer. RSC is a fascizoid prone place where mediocrity and ignorance gets promoted.
from infrastructural to content, the switch to here, is all pros.
the only con is the money this costs.

and please stop distorting history, and doing rsc propaganda here.
Why u being abnoxious and "interpreting" my words for others here as if they had no capacity to interpret on their own? speak for yourself and please respect other users here.
Saying LFS users were responsible for the mayhem and the crap rsc forum was, is like not watching reality. Reality is, this forum works, a lot better than it used to. The users are the same, whereas the enviroment , rules and hosting arent.
People here aren't stupid and can do their own math.

Quote from GP4Flo :

Just read the latest news over at rscnet.org and you know why LFS isn't covered like the other (Simbin) games.

Whats that supposed to mean? LFS news are posted on RSC just like news of any other sim (by Simbin or not). Lack of any posts lately are probably due to lack of any real news in the LFS world...

Having spent the last few weeks trying to decide what racing game I should get that I would want to spend some time learning I cant really say that I saw much about LFS except what I read in forums. It seems that quite a few Rfactor racers constantlly put LFS down but after playing the demo of LFS I could see for myself that it is a great game and is also still developing into becoming even better.

I certainly agree with what was allready said about the rsc forums though, when I had a look at 1 thread about the upcoming GTR2 there was 5 or 6 pages of people arguing over the implementation of windscreen wipers in the gameillepall

The sad fact is that a huge percentage of people that play racing games belive that GT4 really is the "real driving simulator". I have seen arguments in general gaming forums about which is the most realistic driving game, GT4 or Forza

Quote from KiDCoDEa :

correction: it separates it from the RSC community.

Which still is the largest multi-sim racing forum and pre-downtime was the biggest hub of the sim racing world.

I know you'll argue to the contary but that's just because you can't keep your mouth shut just like you couldn't @ RSC, that's all I'll say on this lets not turn this into an RSC hate thread or get it closed any other way.

Quote from Generic Racer :

I have seen arguments in general gaming forums about which is the most realistic driving game, GT4 or Forza

Well, that argument may actually be a valid one.

The most realistic driving sim however

Quote from Chopst1x :

Hi Guys,
Why is LFS not in any of the simracing press?

Who cares? It harms the credibility of the Simracing press more than it harms LFS and it's users.

LFS isnt on rsc just like some brands prefer to stay out of the mall (not even a good one in this case).

Quote from ajp71 :

but that's just because you can't keep your mouth shut just like you couldn't @ RSC.

I'm not your ho you know.
Still, u have almost triple the amount of posts i have. Must be my eloquence.
I must be doing something right, since the truth is hurting.

Quote from J.B. :

Who cares? It harms the credibility of the Simracing press more than it harms LFS and it's users.

The more coverage LFS receives, the more people are likely to buy it which will help to finance on-going development.

Back to the topic of lack of LFS coverage in the gaming press, I've run into something similar at a sim gaming website that I visit regularly. They're quite well established in the military flight sim world with a readership in the several thousands and have started to cover motor racing sims too. However, their coverage consists of all-rFactor, all the time to the virtual exclusion of everything else. Their readers aren't being exposed to other motor racing titles, threads about rFactor abound in the forums and there are a steady stream of readers new to racing sims buying rFactor just because it's the only game being talked about.

Quote from thd :

Whats that supposed to mean? LFS news are posted on RSC just like news of any other sim (by Simbin or not). Lack of any posts lately are probably due to lack of any real news in the LFS world...

Sorry, I should have posted the following link:
http://www.rscnet.org/mambo/in ... ew&id=61&Itemid=2

This post was by no means intended against RSC. What I wanted to say is, that the reason why e.g. GTR is more popular in those leagues is, that it get's a lot of promotion by the publisher. Just read the news, prices with a value of 10.000 euro, spent by 10Tacle. No wonder this league will get more coverage in the FILSCA magazines than most of the LFS leagues which are "just for fun".

Just like you wrote in your post. There is also a lack of news in the LFS world. Simbin gives out press releases about every little detail which will be added to a new game, Scavier does not.

Has there been much coverage of the Intel Racing Tour 2006 which has a BMW M6 as the grand prize?

Quote from BuddhaBing :

The more coverage LFS receives, the more people are likely to buy it which will help to finance on-going development.

True of course. I was just indicating that I don't think LFS has anything left to prove against other simracing products. LFS doesn't need ASS to acknowledge its position in simracing. LFS has the most active community and the technical and physics discussions that go on here also show that LFS by no means atracts only arcade racers and drifters. :hide: These things speak for themselves. If ASS writers etc. are biased towards other sims then they are just distancing themselves from a very large part of the simracing community.

It's mainly because of the way, LFS is made and published. If the devs spend money on advertising, the magazines would be there instantly. But who would spend money on advertising when you only have an alpha-version out?

I understand why they don't do it, but it also limits the amount of new buyers.

Regarding RSC-forums, the reason for their "GTR-is-the-god" attitude could be that the whole game started out as a mod, based on members from.. RSC. So, Simbin has returned the favour, RSC did by making a forum, supporting them etc., by using RSC as their "favourite fanbase". No wonder. But unfortunately, it has turned RSC into a GTR-community, with a lot of subforums. Only reason I check RSC nowadays, is the danish subforum where most danish simracers ( of course, pro-GTR's now ) post.