Hi,

I decided I'd throw away my rather pathetic wheel (Datel SuperSports 3X, pedals broke after about two weeks) and invest in a Thrustmaster F430 (which surprisingly only cost £20 more than the other one). I like Thrustmaster and have a budget joystick made by them which cost £30 and has been going good for about two years.

However, I've never had something from them with Force Feedback. At first, when I used LFS's force feedback, in seemed pretty good. However, if I do as much as brush a barrier, the wheel seems to create a mind of its own, and normally begins to turn right and left at least once without any input. This reminds me of what it did when it first calibrates it, but when you have your hands on the wheel and are on a racetrack it is pretty annoying.

I've tried using the wheel's force feedback which seems to work a bit better but I like it more when you can feel everything. I do want auto-centring if nothing else can be achieved. Anyway, is there anything I am doing wrong here?

Thanks,

Michael (Fezzesarecool)

Well.. I'd say something is probably wrong with the wheel.
Use same wheel, and never had issues you mention!

Oscillation is normal for an unloaded wheel (i.e. when you're not applying any force / torque yourself). Basically the wheel applies torque in the direction it's instructed to, but will overshoot due to inertia. This then translates to unwanted steering input which is met with simulated resistance (friction, inertia, rotational inertia, air resistance, ...) and thus triggers yet another FFB instruction, again resulting in the wheel overshooting and so on and so forth.

How dramatically this effect manifests itself depends primarily on your FFB strength setting and suspension setup, but it generally shouldn't be a problem at <=100% FFB with your hands on the wheel at all times. It will get much more severe at higher levels.

Quote from morpha :

Oscillation is normal for an unloaded wheel (i.e. when you're not applying any force / torque yourself). Basically the wheel applies torque in the direction it's instructed to, but will overshoot due to inertia. This then translates to unwanted steering input which is met with simulated resistance (friction, inertia, rotational inertia, air resistance, ...) and thus triggers yet another FFB instruction, again resulting in the wheel overshooting and so on and so forth.

How dramatically this effect manifests itself depends primarily on your FFB strength setting and suspension setup, but it generally shouldn't be a problem at <=100% FFB with your hands on the wheel at all times. It will get much more severe at higher levels.

I think that this kind of effect would be very hard do notice, wheel and the gearing is usually made of plastic and thus quite light, its diameter is also quite small and so is the moment of inertiam, plus the resistance of the whole mechanism isn't exacty low - at least that's how my old DFP is like. LFS FFB simulation certainly allows for it to occur, but I guess it would be noticeable only with very high FFB strength and if you held the wheel very lightly.

Can you feel this "overswing" in other games with "generic" force feedback?

Quote from MadCatX :

I think that this kind of effect would be very hard do notice, wheel and the gearing is usually made of plastic and thus quite light, its diameter is also quite small and so is the moment of inertiam, plus the resistance of the whole mechanism isn't exacty low - at least that's how my old DFP is like. LFS FFB simulation certainly allows for it to occur, but I guess it would be noticeable only with very high FFB strength and if you held the wheel very lightly.

Can you feel this "overswing" in other games with "generic" force feedback?

Just try turning it yourself with the wheel unpowered, that is, against only the mechanical resistance and no FFB / centering spring. It won't immediately stop when you lift your hand / finger off it. In fact, yanking my G25 from full left lock to the right as fast as I can over just 90° will keep it spinning another ~360°.
The oscillation can occur in a wide variety of games (LFS, iRacing, GT5, DiRT, DiRT2, GRID, all FFB supporting NFS titles... to name just a few) with virtually any FFB wheel.

As you say (and I said), it only occurs on an unloaded wheel (i.e. free-wheeling or hands just barely on it), just a relaxed grip is usually sufficient to dampen the rebound, if not the initial overshoot itself. And yes, it has very little chance of occuring at "reasonable" FFB settings (<=100%).

Also, certain modifications allowing for greater steering angle than stock will inevitably lead to this effect if the FFB strength is not adjusted accordingly.