another one if this threads ...

its not the servers, its the lack off racers. Back in CTRA/STCC days there was no GT5, IRacing and RFactor hadn't taken off iirc. No big competitor on the online simracing market (correct me if I'm wrong).

LFS needs a good, plentiful update to get its user base back, than we can start thinking about new servers. Its not in our hands imo

Quote from ACCAkut :

another one if this threads ...

its not the servers, its the lack off racers. Back in CTRA/STCC days there was no GT5, IRacing and RFactor hadn't taken off iirc. No big competitor on the online simracing market (correct me if I'm wrong).

LFS needs a good, plentiful update to get its user base back, than we can start thinking about new servers. Its not in our hands imo

This. People have tried to create new things in LFS, the open config layout racing for example. However it was enough for about a week. Maybe a similar CTRA system would be good for a week, but then then the numbers would drop, then it will go back to how it was before.

CTRA and alike back asap! That would bring on the community a bit more. Also, there was rFactor and all the other games, it was still a lot different feeling to drive there than elsewhere. Also, the followable reporting and ranking system made everybody avoid collisions and follow the rules. It was just epic!

The main reason I don't even bother racing online now is because it's just terrible. Cargame is not even comparable, it full of people who spend all day driving to get a gt2 and can't even control it and just wreck. I couldnt think of anything worse than gt2 in the same grid as STD. CTRA was awesome and I would love to see something like that come back.

Quote from Mysho :

Also CTRA was so popular because of regular updates from devs and that being on top of CTRA actually meant something, unlike being on top of Cargame list of times.

There is something to that, but let's not forget that they had very active admins who took care of, well nearly any incidents that occurred.

CTRA system was awsome.

They provided the most fun/challenging public servers without a doubt ( imo ). Nowadays cargame.nl S2 is the one that gets closest to those old days, but still....not quite there yet.

I still watch replays from old CTRA races. Full grid TBO events, fast n clean and showcasing what LFS does best. Loved working up thru the system and becoming more proficient in a variety of cars. The web interface and reporting system were a joy to use. Miss it muchly...

Quote from kart-36 :

it full of people who spend all day driving to get a gt2 and can't even control it and just wreck. I couldnt think of anything worse than gt2 in the same grid as STD.

I understand that you do not know about the current situation but it's pretty hard to drive a GTR car nowadays on the regular server.

I almost completely banned it.

Guess what.. People just do not drive GTR at all anymore as a result. Not even on other servers.

It's just heading into the same direction as the open wheelers.

Even FOX isn't been driven much anymore nowadays ... I remember full servers from AMG and FOX junkies... It's all not anymore...

This indicates that there is more going on what no system is going to fix.

Quote from HVS5b :

The web interface and reporting system were a joy to use. Miss it muchly...

Exactly where it went wrong. You must not have an 'easy to use report system' .. It makes the kid lazy. Oh I report you and let an admin decide / talk to you.

It just isn't working. The workload on every admin group gets to a point where it can't be handled anymore. And thats why CTRA died. You ALL need to be more communicative to each other instead of using some stupid system to inform an admin. Like he/she is there 24h for you. It's possible but then you need to pay a monthly subscription. See it happening? I don't. No idiot is going to do that for free. You know why? Because it's no fun, not even as a hobby.

For the kids I understand that they are not following whats going on... But come on... A big part here is so called 'grown up'. Be aware what you actually demand / ask. Looks a lot like Obama's campaign called CHANGE. Everybody is talking about change. In the end, nothing happens.

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Good point Cargame

Btw I have always being astonished how an STD or TBO server can be quickly be full. That's only need few drivers to start the madness and then more and more drivers are coming and level automatically improve. That's because good drivers having fun fighting in close racing whereas newbies can't follow and always finish far so leave quickly.


So cargame.nl server can be full of clean and fair drivers (already saw that) if they simply join it, aswell as any other server. Anyway feel that a road car server would be better CTRA system was just an help, but not the reason of good racing. When I see how full of good drivers GenR server was last few weeks, c'mon simply join those those server, stay there 20-30mins and ppl would join more an more. Need only a lauch

Quote from Cornys :

Cargame.nl used to be good for TBO races as well, but TBO is hardly ever used there now either (not good to have faster cars blowing by you all the time either )

Well, I've been driving there for the past 3 nights again, and there was always someone in the TBO+LX4 class there.
I've tried to race with the NGTs, but nothing beats the fun of a proper LX4 race.

Momo, I only kinda agree, but not fully. It was not only a help, but a motivation also. Having that ranking system motivated everybody to be at the top, and improve the levels to reach another servers, and just to show yourself to others on the server. After the race finished, you saw the level of everybody on the list, which kinda gave you a boost if you beat a dude with a lot higher level. I also admit to have learnt driving Single Seaters there, mostly FBM. Remember doing the KY2 FBM WR online back then And even then it was still exciting to do those 5 laps races, battleing thru every lap. Cargame.nl server never gives you that. We need one class servers full of people with reasonably short races and track rotation and to give in a bit, we need some motivation.

Quote from Kristi :

After the race finished, you saw the level of everybody on the list, which kinda gave you a boost if you beat a dude with a lot higher level.

I recreated exactly that, but nobody gives a ** ..

Mostly because the explanation is missing and a shiny website, I guess. But well, what does it change. I am currently in doubt it would attract more racers.

I learnt how to race with CTRA (not being fast, I lack skill for that).
I learnt how to avoid T1 wrecks, how to pass and get passed midfield, how to recognize drivers who can be trusted for a good door to door battle (event for 18th position).

The points / license system did not bother me because my driving improved with my licenses, not limiting me at the time.

I would NOT do it again. I feel fair and safe-ish on track, and I never jump into a combo that I do not remember without 1-2 laps offline / practice beforehand. Therefore I would not take again the learning path, step after step, as if I were a beginner.

CTRA was good for me as a newbie, and I thank the admin team for making it happen. Such a system seems unnecessary and boring for experienced racers, so I count myself lucky that it existed when I could benefit from it but I would probably not participate in it again.

Shameless plug: we at dead men racing have an interesting (manly) combo this week: RAC@WE1. Pickup races with live admins mostly in the evenings all week, 1 hour race on thursday. I need practice, the mighty ones run 3 seconds faster in 1:52

Quote from cargame.nl :

I recreated exactly that, but nobody gives a ** ..

Mostly because the explanation is missing and a shiny website, I guess. But well, what does it change.

Well, as you just pointed out, having the 'explanation' and the website changes whether people care about having a points system.

Quote :

I am currently in doubt it would attract more racers.

Everywhere in the world where there is sporting competition that people get excited about, there is some sort of points system where results and standings are posted publicly. Otherwise there would be no competitors... funny that.

I think that the fancy (very professional and high quality) website was a big part of the success of CTRA, and the reporting was the other major thing it had going.
Without a points system with achievements with web presence, and without a good reporting and moderating system, whats left? a server! so what.

If the work load for mods is too high, maybe the reporting system could be tweaked to avoid having most of the 'racing incidents' reported. e.g. if someone reports an incident that is not a clear infringement, then they themselves are penalised - points fine, temp ban etc.? That way you'd get all the wreckers, but the other stuff folks would deal with themselves.

As far as getting people to be mods, if you have a nice pro website and a big user base, then you are more likely to get volunteers to - there will be kudos if it's a core part of the community and there is public recognition of their importance. It works for forums.
People like to feel important, powerful and respected within a community. If the value of the service you are providing is high enough, you will get volunteers. But it would have to be a damn sight more than just another scripted server.
That's another reason why I think it needs the devs behind it - if it's THE official system, then people will want to be mods.

Quote from cargame.nl :

Guess what.. People just do not drive GTR at all anymore as a result. Not even on other servers.


.

That's because they're all driving the bloody NGTs instead.

It's difficult to have a proper race in the road cars because there's either slow/damaged NGTs in the way, NGTs who failed T1 coming back through (and driving as if they own the road), NGT midrace joiners doing the same, Baby-R in the way on straights and divebombing in the corners...

I think splitting the servers to have road cars (road tyres) on one and race cars (slick tyres) on the other could provide a better environment for all.

Structured racing systems in LFS...

1) cargames.nl - good, casual, continuous racing with some of the usual frustrations. Lots of variety, good admins. Track variety may be better - mostly due to the voting system whereby the same tracks got picked over and over again. Love the GTR racing when available, hate it when other drivers 'look down' on you when you drive GTR...

2) Fox Junkies - fox event every Friday evening with year long score keeping.

3) OLFSL league - 7 months with 12 combo's, lots of racers - 45 to 95 per event. Absolutely structured.

4) Gentleman Driver's Club - do you have what it take?? Respect, driving skills, willingness to practise?

5) Oval Junkies - commitment to millisecond driving line accuracy and timing...

Unfortunately all these servers got rules, they are structured... and young, fast, inexperienced drivers... DO NOT LIKE IT!

The LFS-racing pool is just diluted by other activities on the internet.

Please don't give me the old LFS-is-stagnating stance - if S3 ever come out it will keep the interest for a week or so. Modern society want ever changing activities.

I am currently closing down my 17-year old scuba diving business - it just changed during the past seven years, people got lazy, people want what someone needing to work for a living cannot deliver...

Close down all the inactive, rarely frequented servers, just delete them from the master server, if mistakes happens, it can be corrected, I suspect 90% of the owners simply won't care...

I am just a 45 year old guy that really enjoy racing and socialising with other drivers... and if I don't like what's going on, I do hotlaps.

Whatever.

CTRA was at (or near?) its prime when I joined up to LFS with the imminent release of the Sirocco... When CTRA shut down after a few months the game lost its fun. Several have tried to replicate what it brings with varying degrees of successs. I would love to see it around again, even if there wasn't the back end support it had. Maybe have vote kicks/bans with several admins that can override. Just having semi-orginized racing helps a lot.

Since CTRA has gone down the drain I've move to iRacing and occasionally drifting in LFS because what I bought the game for (sirocco) and stayed with the game for (CTRA) are gone.

Just been and had a look at the old CTRA site, forgot just how professional it looked (and how much work must have been involved). Makes you realise why quite a few of us miss it so much . Looks like it shut down three years ago.

Laddering system and organized races are the main reasons i switched to iR..

And way more racers online of course, which i believe comes from the latter mostly. Nobody likes anarchy...

I also remember a betting system @ servers in 2006 or 2007. Was only a 1v1 battle on the server and you had to bet on drivers whom will win the race, and it had multiplers on the drivers depending on how many races they've won before. I quite liked that I want a system like that for sure. Having only 10-15 people in it makes a lot of fun also.

Quote from Bean0 :

I think splitting the servers to have road cars (road tyres) on one and race cars (slick tyres) on the other could provide a better environment for all.

This.

The difference in cornering speeds between a car on road/slick tyres is so huge that a lot of the time it is just an accident waiting to happen.

Regarding CTRA... I personally have had my most enjoyable races on CTRA servers. I think what made CTRA a success was that they had a solid website and reporting system to accompany the servers, which made the overall experience much more appealing.

The problem with making a new CTRA like system is that you could almost give a few people a full time job running it.

http://www.raceauthority.com/

Memories :worried:

Can see where cargame.nl is coming from. I was reading this thread http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=78053 last night, which is just from one race. I dread to think what an easy reporting system is like from daily races over multiple servers.

Quote from englishlord :

I was reading this thread http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=78053

Although these people are more likely to care if someone bumped them off, since they are racing for championship points.

Quote from JO53PHS :

Although these people are more likely to care if someone bumped them off, since they are racing for championship points.

You don't think people will get pissed in the public races?


Seems people are asking too much with the too little life we have here.