The difference is Jak, we are mere civilians not trained in police/military firearm use. Most here would probably unload a whole mag on a guy, but police are trained to use tactics that should negate the use of a firearm entirely.

In that one instance, compared with the rest of the video it's pretty minimal police brutality to be fair, but in hindsight they should of kept a greater distance to the suspect instead of standing within range of a hand-held solid weapon and then firing in panic when the guy attacked someone.

To be fair, police seem to go crazy if a suspect attacks another cop, but not so crazy when they attack another citizen. This is one of the fundamental reasons behind police brutality. They judge situations personally, rather than generally and logically.

Eitherway it does pose questions about the US police tactics in general, as that kind of shit wouldn't happen anywhere else in the 1st world.

Welcome to the United States of America where you get shot and killed by a cop that thought your Pepsi can was a gun.

I have many stories of bad and good things done by police that have happened around me in the last few years. The good actions that Police do outweigh the bad but the bad always get more attention. Unfortunately we do not live in a perfect world, there is corruption and abuse of power everywhere we look.

I don't feel bad at all if some burglar, rapist or murderer gets beaten up or shot. When it is innocent people it's totally different thing than some dangerous individual.

Call me hypocrite if you wish but that guy who attacked the cop and got his ass kicked got nothing less than he deserved. The same with the guy who tried to escape the cops in gta style but spun off in his car. Better him getting all that instead of him driving over someone who I could actually care about.

All that being said some of those ar indeed shocking because at most all there is is some talking before the rage switch is turned on. I feel much worse about the guy who got beaten for apparently doing absolutely nothing wrong than the guy who who got shot 10 times for attacking a cop with steel pipe in his hand.

Not the kind of police that makes me feel safe or not the kind of police I'd want to uphold the law and order.

Quote from Hyperactive :

Not the kind of police that makes me feel safe or not the kind of police I'd want to uphold the law and order.

This ^^

Quote from Hyperactive :

I don't feel bad at all if some burglar, rapist or murderer gets beaten up or shot. When it is innocent people it's totally different thing than some dangerous individual.

Call me hypocrite if you wish but that guy who attacked the cop and got his ass kicked got nothing less than he deserved. The same with the guy who tried to escape the cops in gta style but spun off in his car. Better him getting all that instead of him driving over someone who I could actually care about.

All that being said some of those ar indeed shocking because at most all there is is some talking before the rage switch is turned on. I feel much worse about the guy who got beaten for apparently doing absolutely nothing wrong than the guy who who got shot 10 times for attacking a cop with steel pipe in his hand.

Not the kind of police that makes me feel safe or not the kind of police I'd want to uphold the law and order.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18mxbVPcrzc

Quote from BlueFlame :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18mxbVPcrzc

thats how you do it. If it weren't for the "hero" that gave the guy the broom the situation could have been over sooner. You can't use your gun on a crowded market, even the pepper spray was a last chance decision. This is how I expect policemen to act.

Quote from Jakg :

Why not?

The officer was shooting to stop, which in this case, realistically, was going to be end in death. Who really cares how many bullets are fired, if the end result is going to be the same?

To with stand something like that he would of been on Meth or something similiar.

If anyones ever seen a tweaker get wigged out...you know how dangerous they can become VERY quickly, let alone when they have a weapon at their disposal..

i watched a tweaker at a music festival early last year, he got into a rage over standing in line for a drink for too long and lost his shit, took a good 15 security guards to wrestle him to the ground, pepper spray did absolutely nothing to him...and he wasn't an overly large guy either.

The first video i don't see any problem with tbh

Quote from eddy678 :

f*ck the police there no help atall they just abuse their powers against other people and think that they can get away with it >

Yeah, lets go live in a country without anyone policing it..

See how far that gets you...



also at 1:45
how is that police brutality? some random guy comes up and smacks the cop in the face for arresting someone, tackles him to the ground, and the cop is seen punching him in the face repeatadly because hes pinned him down.

this video is ****ing retarded.

Quote from Klutch :

The first video i don't see any problem with tbh

How about using a weapon he had on his disposal - the dog?

Just to make clear: I also don't believe in police with no weapons, that's just too silly. Any armed lunatic could make massacre then easily.
I believe that majority of policeman ARE decent people, but I have also seen this kind of brutality well enough to know that, simply put - these are just plain bustards hiding behind the uniforms.

Quote from ACCAkut :

thats how you do it. If it weren't for the "hero" that gave the guy the broom the situation could have been over sooner. You can't use your gun on a crowded market, even the pepper spray was a last chance decision. This is how I expect policemen to act.

this forum needs a like button.

Quote from sermilan :

How about using a weapon he had on his disposal - the dog?

The guy was obviously wired on something, if a taser to the face doesn't do anything to him i highly doubt a dog chewing on him will do much. Drugs combined with adrenaline is a very, very dangerous mix.

Besides, the other cop was only a good 3 steps away from getting a crowbar to the face, by the time the dog has been released and latched onto him, the crowbar could still have been planted into the police officers face.

Quote from Klutch :

The guy was obviously wired on something, if a taser to the face doesn't do anything to him i highly doubt a dog chewing on him will do much.

Yap... so let's just put 10 bullets in him...
Those two cops are obviously two scared retards. The guy with the crowbar didn't even raise it on the second cop nor he really looked too aggressive, read the body language (look also how many seconds it took him to get angry after being stunned in the face). He didn't run towards the cop, but just kind of making moves to scare him away.... I don't know, but that Estonian guy in Finland looked more aggressive even though he was only asking for lawyer.

When police dogs attack, they go for bringing down the target, not only to bite him. Policemen were not thinking at all, they were acting franticly and clumsily.

Quote from ACCAkut :

thats how you do it. If it weren't for the "hero" that gave the guy the broom the situation could have been over sooner. You can't use your gun on a crowded market, even the pepper spray was a last chance decision. This is how I expect policemen to act.

If they had just shot him for being a petulant dickhead, the whole situation would be over sooner. Kidding. Mostly.

Really, best solution, they would have pulled guns out but not needed any reason to shoot. After the Pepper Spray. Standing on the other end of a barrel is a pretty good motivator to play nice. That would have saved everyone in the market some trouble, and saved the officers from potential harm from having to tackle him.

Just to clearify, from what I know, every Finnish police officer that opens fire, have to report all the bullets that have been shot afterwards at the police station and give explanation why fire was opened. In Finland they especially train officers not to use guns (of course they teach them :P) but to solve problems other way, for example with pepper spray and just taking their time and not causing any hazards for themselves, surrounding citizens or the target him/herself.

Quote from Hahmo :

...

Yeah... it was basically the same situation as in the first video (2 cops vs 1 man with a stick) and they dealt reasonably with that.
Didn't look as spectacular as in US, but they overcame the guy, packed him and sent him to the judge to deal with him.
No guns fired, no unnecessary beating when they tied him, 6 mins spent (unlike to US's 20 secs), a few bruises, but everybody will wake up on the next day.

Quote from sermilan :

Just to make clear: I also don't believe in police with no weapons, that's just too silly. Any armed lunatic could make massacre then easily.
I believe that majority of policeman ARE decent people, but I have also seen this kind of brutality well enough to know that, simply put - these are just plain bustards hiding behind the uniforms.

I don't believe ordinary police (or citizens) need to have lethal force at their disposal. I don't think guns are an effective self-defence tool anyway. In the UK most police do not carry guns or tasers and unlike in the US police are hardly routinely shot at, gun crime is still pretty much non-existent over here.

I think police are far safer if they are unarmed against armed criminals, the natural reaction over here is to run a mile, contain the situation/ensure public safety and provide a co-ordinated armed response that is far less likely to result in anybody getting hurt. When shots are fired by the police in the UK there will automatically be an investigation by the IPCC (an independent body to the police).

The video of the motorcyclist being stopped at gun point by a man who did not initially identify himself as an undercover cop is the most disturbing. How on earth can the use of firearms be justified to stop someone who has committed a simple motoring offence, even if he decided to ride off from properly marked police how could the threat let alone use of a firearm be justified?

Your every day citizens don't have guns though. It's simply unfeasible to have an armed populace and not have an armed police force.

When any random guy can pull a gun out of nowhere, or even openly carry a gun that is more powerful than what the police have, that's a scary situation for the police. One single slip up, let your guard down for a second, and they could wind up dead. And it does happen, where an officer will be shot during a routine traffic stop or something. That's why the US police are forced to take such heavy precautions sometimes.

Still, there is a massive difference between being cautious, and being trigger happy. Should be more punishment for police officers who do abuse their power. They are in a job that requires them to be exceptional, they should be held to that standard, rather than getting off scot-free like they seem to all too often.

My personal score with police and guns is 1:0 in favor of police. They shot a lunatic who pulled out a gun and started threatening people nearby. My mom and sister were forced to lie down on the ground to hide from the nut, the police showed up and shot him in the leg when he wouldn't drop the gun. That, to me, was a very justifiable and well handled use of force.

EDIT: Found a news story about it.

Quote from ajp71 :

I don't think guns are an effective self-defence tool anyway. In the UK most police do not carry guns or tasers and unlike in the US police are hardly routinely shot at, gun crime is still pretty much non-existent over here.

How does UK police deal with situations when a crime is in process where offender(s) are using guns or other weapons (knives or such)? Do you have special forces that are called for then? (like what happened in Norway)

How easy/hard is for civilians to get in legal possession of a gun?
For example, here it is pretty hard, you apply and takes months or years, they do all sorts of inquiries including asking neighbors about you. And then you get the permit to have it in your house, but not to carry it. Using it also takes miles of procedures because you can't use it even in self defense unless you have a permit for that.
The tax for having a gun has also become huge... you can sell it to another person with a permit, but you'll pay a huge tax... you can take it to be destroyed, but you'll pay a huge fee... so possessing a gun legally here is largely discouraged. There is a black market, but it's not spread and, as you said, gun violence is pretty much non existent here too (any more).

Quote from RiseAgainstMe! :

They are in a job that requires them to be exceptional, they should be held to that standard...

I couldn't agree more and I also think that they should be paid well over the average payment for that. What you described after this justifies why they should have a gun and the action they took how you described it was just what I meant.