Quote from Chupacabras84 :

Nope just revealing you.

Well you see as for now numerous times I proved that you are a liar, and make things up to prove your point and i think that was quite productive as far as post can go anyway
because if all of your points are lies then your argument is unfounded and thats pretty much where discussion ends for you

im so happy you ended your discussion with me cause your words were only attacking personally because of the pain in somewhere in your body read all your posts again and you'll realize that. of course, for me too. im happy to see the end of the discussion with such person like u

@madcat, yeah 2 seconds. and i am yet on my 250-300 completed laps.

i'll not use unrealistic F mode and like i said i rather leave than to be forced to play with this mode.

Quote from S.E.T.H :

cupacabra, relax dont forget i am making a request and ur just revealing yourself.

Nope just revealing you.

Quote from S.E.T.H :

oh and i showed i am a liar? im so shy. please read or send productive comments. or go play with force mode on.

Well you see as for now numerous times I proved that you are a liar, and make things up to prove your point and i think that was quite productive as far as post can go anyway
because if all of your points are lies then your argument is unfounded and thats pretty much where discussion ends for you

Quote from S.E.T.H :

please read or send productive comments rather than attacking me personally.

Quote from S.E.T.H :

im so happy you ended your discussion with me cause your words were only attacking personally

Read it again, non of what I said was personal and if something it was justified.

It would be a personal attack if I just called you names but you see I called you a liar because well you obviously lied.
I called you an immature person became with all the accusation, your overall input in this thread you proved yourself to be such.
I called you ignorant because instead of listening to people who know way more than you, you tried to prove them wrong with made up arguments.
Yeah that was pretty bad when you run out of arguments instead of admitting you were wrong you resort to lying.

So as you can see none of what I said was a personal attack

Quote from der butz :

Would you mind showing us your rig? I mean everything, Computer, screen, wheel, shifter, pedals and so on.

greetz

der butz

I've quit reading on page 6. You seem to be quite an experienced troll to me, not seeing valid points opposing yours and keeping going on about how everyone but you is a stupid/bad/mad/... person.

I say it again, show us your lfs simulator(edit: and show how you're faster with force view). Then leave. Quick.

Drive 100 000 km's and then tell me that Force Mode make you faster.

You have driven 1000 km, it is to be expected that about every lap you drive, you will do better.. During the learning curve, improvement is rapid, let us say logarithmic, as you get experienced, your improvement hits the curve's plato.

NOW when you hit this plato, get onto force mode and show me another rapid improvement.

Your current 0.2 - 0.3s improvement count for NOTHING at your current level of experience!

Put me on a new combo and every little thing I change (FOV, setup, FFB etc) help me to improve. The one thing that never helped me was force mode. I loose perspective of the car's extremities, the gray arrow that suddenly pops up right in front of me when I brake is seriously distracting and limiting my FOV. With force mode you will hit the car in front of you or the wall next to you (oval example) while you think you still have clear space in front of or beside you.

I used force mode once, and that was to UNDERSTAND and get a feeling for the RAC's front tyres on AS Club reverse (an engineer may use this as an aid to explain to a driver in real world why his car is doing what it is doing), I also watched countless replays, drove numerous laps in various modes. Standard cockpit view gives me the feeling of real racing, not this nauseous feeling of seeing a road under my feet.

Force mode is a nice theoretical modelling aid, but as a driving aid - NO WAY!!!

I have seen you argue with some of the top drivers in LFS, I have driven on the same tracks with them - you are telling them that they are liars, using unfair aids to gain advantage over other drivers. I have only seen pure unadulterated driving skills from them that stood me in awe... on Sunday I have seen Redline Stuart drove FE Gold with 40kg ballast in the UFR against some very fast drivers with no ballast, making his set the slowest in the field. Guess what, he won!

Fast is fast and bullshit walks.

Get some experience and then argue your idiocy again.

Quote from S.E.T.H :

i'll not use unrealistic F mode and like i said i rather leave than to be forced to play with this mode.

I hate to say this, but do you realize what kind if idiot you are? You're acting like the force view was the only trick you could use to be faster. There are much more effective tricks and people regularly use them. You're also saying that if you can't be the greatest and the fastest, you can't enjoy the game... with this kind of attitude I guess you could apply to McLaren F1 as Hamilton's replacement.
Seriously, either get over yourself or leave.

C'mon I have never used F mode for setting the car. This is shit, something better are the datas you can extract with .raf files an analyze wit lfs lra.exe (lfs replay analyzers).

You are definitely noobs and deseperate. If 100 wr holder tell you he isn't using it maybe it is because this is nor usable. Think

Seth the Egyptian God is also known as the god of chaos. According to popular Egyptian mythology it would certainly seem that he created plenty of mayhem and chaos.

In the late period, Seth is depicted as an ass or with the head of an ass.

The two ancient Egyptian gods became embroiled in a battle resulting in injuries to both parties. Horus lost his left eye, however he managed to cut way Seth's testicles. The loss of his testicles is considered to be part of the reason why Seth is so often associated with infertility.

...

Quote from S.E.T.H :

exactly, but not because i was beaten, i could use the mode too and drive, and hopefully beat more people. but then i'd not have fun with such car view.

how is not using FFB mode more realistic than using it?

Quote from der butz :

I've quit reading on page 6. You seem to be quite an experienced troll to me, not seeing valid points opposing yours and keeping going on about how everyone but you is a stupid/bad/mad/... person.

I say it again, show us your lfs simulator(edit: and show how you're faster with force view). Then leave. Quick.

i dont know what is your point in asking me of my things. i have a laptop, sometimes i connect it to the tv and play, and i got a simple wheel. and how you want me to show you that i am faster with force view? im just faster with it. but i still dont want to use it, i am not having fun.

Quote from Jettascuba :

Drive 100 000 km's and then tell me that Force Mode make you faster.

You have driven 1000 km, it is to be expected that about every lap you drive, you will do better.. During the learning curve, improvement is rapid, let us say logarithmic, as you get experienced, your improvement hits the curve's plato.

NOW when you hit this plato, get onto force mode and show me another rapid improvement.

Your current 0.2 - 0.3s improvement count for NOTHING at your current level of experience!

Put me on a new combo and every little thing I change (FOV, setup, FFB etc) help me to improve. The one thing that never helped me was force mode. I loose perspective of the car's extremities, the gray arrow that suddenly pops up right in front of me when I brake is seriously distracting and limiting my FOV. With force mode you will hit the car in front of you or the wall next to you (oval example) while you think you still have clear space in front of or beside you.

I used force mode once, and that was to UNDERSTAND and get a feeling for the RAC's front tyres on AS Club reverse (an engineer may use this as an aid to explain to a driver in real world why his car is doing what it is doing), I also watched countless replays, drove numerous laps in various modes. Standard cockpit view gives me the feeling of real racing, not this nauseous feeling of seeing a road under my feet.

Force mode is a nice theoretical modelling aid, but as a driving aid - NO WAY!!!

I have seen you argue with some of the top drivers in LFS, I have driven on the same tracks with them - you are telling them that they are liars, using unfair aids to gain advantage over other drivers. I have only seen pure unadulterated driving skills from them that stood me in awe... on Sunday I have seen Redline Stuart drove FE Gold with 40kg ballast in the UFR against some very fast drivers with no ballast, making his set the slowest in the field. Guess what, he won!

Fast is fast and bullshit walks.

Get some experience and then argue your idiocy again.

your whole comment meant no sense to me, really. you totally missed the point.

Quote from MadCatX :

I hate to say this, but do you realize what kind if idiot you are? You're acting like the force view was the only trick you could use to be faster. There are much more effective tricks and people regularly use them. You're also saying that if you can't be the greatest and the fastest, you can't enjoy the game... with this kind of attitude I guess you could apply to McLaren F1 as Hamilton's replacement.
Seriously, either get over yourself or leave.

pfff kids around who calls the other ''stupid'' or ''idiot'' when run out of arguments. im sorry where did i say i cant have fun if i am not the fastest? ive never said such thing. and by the way i'd like to be replaced with button and beat hamilton

Quote from MoMo92i :

C'mon I have never used F mode for setting the car. This is shit, something better are the datas you can extract with .raf files an analyze wit lfs lra.exe (lfs replay analyzers).

You are definitely noobs and deseperate. If 100 wr holder tell you he isn't using it maybe it is because this is nor usable. Think

again an insult, again an ad hominem attack.

Quote from Bmxtwins :

how is not using FFB mode more realistic than using it?

its so simple is it not? seeing 4 tires and 4 sticks upon them is unrealistic. and seeing the cars themselves is realistic. at least, more realistic.


nobody tells me why should not the developers remove it. if its only for setup building like all of you said, make it available on setup environment. and let people do hotlaps without force mode.



in demo there is almost no servers with force cockpit mode option, or there are some which is abandoned, left, totally empty.

and servers with full population have force mode available. which reveals the problem itself. if any of you running a server, force them to use cockpit view once, then see how the population of the server drops gradually, and the time boards also. you'll end up with nobody racing in your server.

1st: So you drive with a simple wheel. Not realistic. No h-shifter, no clutch pedal I suppose. That's an unfair advantage over all the honest guys racing with proper clutches. Period.

2nd: I want the f-view in the game, you don't. 1:1, the devs leave that in because I want it. If you don't like the game please go away now.

3rd: It would be most realistic to drive a race in a car.

Anything left to argue? Think not

no greetz

der butz

Quote from der butz :

1st: So you drive with a simple wheel. Not realistic. No h-shifter, no clutch pedal I suppose. That's an unfair advantage over all the honest guys racing with proper clutches. Period.

2nd: I want the f-view in the game, you don't. 1:1, the devs leave that in because I want it. If you don't like the game please go away now.

3rd: It would be most realistic to drive a race in a car.

Anything left to argue? Think not

no greetz

der butz

lol funny guy

simulators are never real. your brain must be capable of understanding it. but we are trying to feel as real as we can. if i have a simple wheel, its my problem, i can buy better one. force mode is about the developers.


yeah i suppose you are having nice fun all you see is far from reality and fun. when you get in a real car (if you ever will) those sticks you seem to drive upon will join your arse

Quote from S.E.T.H :

pfff kids around who calls the other ''stupid'' or ''idiot'' when run out of arguments. im sorry where did i say i cant have fun if i am not the fastest?

You indirectly implied it by this

Quote :

i'll not use unrealistic F mode and like i said i rather leave than to be forced to play with this mode.

and this

Quote :

i know i will be forced to use force mode when i am slower, or when if i do a fast lap, i will need to improve it force mode on.

for instance.

Quote :

nobody tells me why should not the developers remove it. if its only for setup building like all of you said, make it available on setup environment. and let people do hotlaps without force mode.

So far you haven't been able to come up with a reason why they should remove it (except that _you_ are faster with it).

Quote from S.E.T.H :

im just faster with it. but i still dont want to use it, i am not having fun.

Don't use it then. It's as simple as that.

OK, I'm outta here, it's become rather dull... I'd like to see this nominated for the thread of the 2K12 though (considering we're only half way through February, the nominations might get sorta though this year )

S.E.T.H what if you re-read the posts again? from #2 to last and rethink again what we have told to you

@madkat

i am telling it once for last time. it kills realism and brings unfair advantage. simple as that.

and also it has no use other than setup making. so let it be unavailable on hotlaps & online racing

I lost the discussion, but S.E.T.H., i would like to argue with you...

Until a month, I was a demo racer, and with a bad PC. Because of that, had to always use Force View and gained a "advantage" comparised by using normal view. But...

When i entered S2 (after 40000 online KMs), noticed what the tracks give me more FPS than BL, so i could use normal view... And i didnt lost that advantage from Force View, even without use it... How?

The advantage, is bigger for newbie drivers (don't get offended please), because they cant "feel" (or imagine, in case of you drive by mouse/kb) where the track ends... So if a newbie who uses F view stop using it, will go off track, spin, like happened to me. But when you are experienced, the views will simple not care... You know how much accelerate to use the outside kerb, know how to brake and use all the entry kerb, know how early to corner-in to use the apex kerb... Viewing the track just gets you distracted...



So, the F view gives advantage only for newbies... But, the experience/hability counts the same, so it is not a "so good cheat". For WRs, etc, there are only super-experienced drivers on the Top 10, so view the track or not won't care nothing, just distract...

When i was newbie, i used force View to know where to brake in the 2nd last corner at BL1... Then, i noticed the boards, near the trees... 100, 50, 25, 10 meters... And noticed what my braking point was near the 50 mts mark... So, force view just lost its importance and i started to look up to see the marks instead of looking to the kerb...


I, as someone who started really bad, with no one to help me, to a S2 driver, signed to a good team, with "not bad" PBs, i can tell you: Don't care if others are cheating. Don't care if anything help others. Find what help you, find how you can be faster/better, then you will be fast and competitive.

Quote from S.E.T.H :

i am telling it once for last time. it kills realism and brings unfair advantage. simple as that.

How can it be an unfair advantage when everybody is free to use it?

Let's say I have a G27 racing wheel and I set my steering lock to 60 degrees, so I can countersteer ultraquickly and use nonlinear steering to compensate for the oversensitivity. It also kills realism and gives me a really unfair advantage (not everyone as a wheel with adjustable steering lock), should such racers be banned or something too?

Quote from S.E.T.H :

your brain must be capable of understanding it. ...will join your arse

Ah, an insult, how original. I'm starting to like you even more. Where do you come from? And why don't you leave?

S.E.T.H what did I tell you, all of your arguments are either born from ignorance or made up which is been proven already many times in this thread.
So as I said discussion for you ends here as all of your claims are unfounded.

So yeah it doesnt kills realism or bring unfair advantage and you dont even have any arguments that would prove me otherwise because all of your arguments until now where based either on you ignoring on purpose valid points brough up to you or you making up arguments or result of you inability to read with comprehension, because as for now most posts of which you read and answer to were misunderstood by you so yeah you cant read for shiz, too bad for you, cant help you with it.
But either way all of your arguments have no real basis

Quote from Si Mclaren :

I lost the discussion, but S.E.T.H., i would like to argue with you...

Until a month, I was a demo racer, and with a bad PC. Because of that, had to always use Force View and gained a "advantage" comparised by using normal view. But...

When i entered S2 (after 40000 online KMs), noticed what the tracks give me more FPS than BL, so i could use normal view... And i didnt lost that advantage from Force View, even without use it... How?

The advantage, is bigger for newbie drivers (don't get offended please), because they cant "feel" (or imagine, in case of you drive by mouse/kb) where the track ends... So if a newbie who uses F view stop using it, will go off track, spin, like happened to me. But when you are experienced, the views will simple not care... You know how much accelerate to use the outside kerb, know how to brake and use all the entry kerb, know how early to corner-in to use the apex kerb... Viewing the track just gets you distracted...



So, the F view gives advantage only for newbies... But, the experience/hability counts the same, so it is not a "so good cheat". For WRs, etc, there are only super-experienced drivers on the Top 10, so view the track or not won't care nothing, just distract...

When i was newbie, i used force View to know where to brake in the 2nd last corner at BL1... Then, i noticed the boards, near the trees... 100, 50, 25, 10 meters... And noticed what my braking point was near the 50 mts mark... So, force view just lost its importance and i started to look up to see the marks instead of looking to the kerb...


I, as someone who started really bad, with no one to help me, to a S2 driver, signed to a good team, with "not bad" PBs, i can tell you: Don't care if others are cheating. Don't care if anything help others. Find what help you, find how you can be faster/better, then you will be fast and competitive.

thank you so much for that sensible, understanding post. i'll try and see if when i am faster, will i still want to use it or not. thanks for the greatest comment ever in this topic :Handshake

Quote from MadCatX :

How can it be an unfair advantage when everybody is free to use it?

Let's say I have a G27 racing wheel and I set my steering lock to 60 degrees, so I can countersteer ultraquickly and use nonlinear steering to compensate for the oversensitivity. It also kills realism and gives me a really unfair advantage (not everyone as a wheel with adjustable steering lock), should such racers be banned or something too?

no, when you lock it to 60 degrees, you'll lose smooth steering. i am trying to solve the most possible unfair thing in game. what you just said rests in your hands, you can use hack or wheel or any other. i cant prevent you from using hacks. but force mode is at the developers' hands. so i can request to be removed. and those hacks are rather hard considering f mode is activated with 1 button.

for sure i'd like those hacks u mentioned to be fixed though

Quote from der butz :

Ah, an insult, how original. I'm starting to like you even more. Where do you come from? And why don't you leave?

yea, i am learning from u and if i leave or not, is not your business

Quote from Si Mclaren :

...

A very good point.
Using the force view could be considered as using a driving aid or training tool.
Much like displaying the racing line, or using automatic clutch/gears.

Using it to improve FPS is more to do with the bodies of opponent cars not being drawn I would have thought.

my personal best on fbm blackwood is 1.13.06 its not fast and its took me a while to get there,after reading this thread i decided to do a few laps with the Force view and in all honesty it made my times worse due to being distracted by the moving lines either side.ect.....i could even go as far as using fraps and doing a video of me doing a few laps with it switched on and then a video with it switched off..but you probably say that i just didnt do my best with the Forces view...if you can go and get a 1.13 personal best on fbm today then it may make me rethink all this,, if it was an issue then it would have been stated before by others

nothing personal

Quote from S.E.T.H :

thank you so much for that sensible, understanding post. i'll try and see if when i am faster, will i still want to use it or not. thanks for the greatest comment ever in this topic :Handshake

If that was the greatest comment on this topic I will have to say WOW!
You do realise what he said are the basics not even LFS but basics in any racing game.
But moment... you said you played so many sims and you've been fast in them and you didnt know the basics that where mentioned by Si Mclaren?
Oh I get it all of the sims you played before and where good at also were a lie, why am I not surprised
The best part is, if those basics are such a new thing for you I am surprised that you, with your nonexistent knowledge about sim racing tried to prove wrong, racers who actually know what they are talking about.

Kid how about you stop making up stories?

Impressive!

Btw i tested you on something and you simply did it. Awesome i gave you the reason why your request was useless (from an engineer side) and what you listen was only the idiotic things I wrote.

Basically if you have an improvement suggestion this is not the correct section for it. Then no one care about F button in LFS.

Furthermore as I have already said in another (usefull) topic LFS is a game, modeling perfect physics require lot of time + money + awesome computer and you will never reach the goal because this is simply impossible.

Devs added this stuff because it enables you to understand in term of physics how a car is working (I feel it really interesting for any cars fanboy). No one use it to race or to set a car. I can tell you as a member of one of the most sucessful team in LFS. We use only drivers feeling (75%, irl it's about 50%) and datas recorded by the car during a run (tyres loads in pushrod, temps, suspension travel, slip angle, slip velocity,...). This gave you much more info than what F mode do so this mode is really useless, so this topic is aswell.

Now stop being stupid, half of the people here are joking about you and your damn complain. I have raced LFS since 2005, never used it, it took me 3 years to become fast and I have still lot of things to understand to be alien. So use cockpit view and race and race.

To finish, a small quote about senna's engineer : "datas analysis was useless because Ayrton was one"

Anyway keep going, this is really fun and you are now #1 for 2012 awards thread of the year and best oddball of lfsforum. This is not an ad hominen attack, just a fact, and facts aren't insult.

http://500motivators.com/plog- ... game-you-just-lost-it.jpg

We all lost it, when we posted in here.