Quote from pearcy_2k7 :

A different view isn't cheating, im just showing to you that alot of the fast guys use the cockpit view, some don't but i've never heard of any of them using force mode, i've been in some of the top teams in live for speed and none of those guys used it either, it's just something you are thinking in your head.

USE THE VIEW YOU LIKE BEST AND GET ON WITH IT.

Wasn't sure about weighing in here, but I have to agree fully with this post.
I personally think forces view is way too distracting to race with. I have to look ahead of me to anticipate what's coming. Not look at what's going on with the car right now. I would be too late to react and as such forces view would slow me down, not speed me up.

S.E.T.H. I think there's a little wisdom in seeing so much opposition from people who have been very serious racing sim drivers for years, and who are telling you that it doesn't make you faster. Except for those who are learning, the mentioned tools can help you improve your driving. But those will only take you so far. The last distance to cover to become a really good racer comes from within yourself. It won't be delivered to you by features such as forces view while driving.

--
A moderation note in general : this thread already started a little heated, so it's not weird to see heated replies. But every time I see a post that just says someone's a retard, I die a little inside. Why is that necessary? I'm in a good mood now, but don't be surprised if one day i apply an instant ban on such posters. I hate pointless aggression with a passion.

Quote from S.E.T.H :

lol still...

what is so hard in understanding that sentence;

-remove force mode in hotlapping & online races. make it available on setup environment to make the game more realistic.

......

It's already available in setup environments. Or would you rather have Scawen drop the new tyre physics and waste time removing a feature that tbh hardly gets used?

Quote :

yeah obviously i need a drill to put this into brains:

there are people that is faster than me. and i am for sure not the fastest and will never be. there are people that can beat me without F mode.

i am saying f mode gives advantage, and you are saying ''use it then, make some wrs, show us'' how stupid is that approaching? i dont even wanna be disturbed explaining again omg.

If you can't be bothered to go and test this and provide the proof, you should just leave and admit that you're wrong.

Quote from Victor :

Wasn't sure about weighing in here, but I have to agree fully with this post.
I personally think forces view is way too distracting to race with. I have to look ahead of me to anticipate what's coming. Not look at what's going on with the car right now. I would be too late to react and as such forces view would slow me down, not speed me up.

S.E.T.H. I think there's a little wisdom in seeing so much opposition from people who have been very serious racing sim drivers for years, and who are telling you that it doesn't make you faster. Except for those who are learning, the mentioned tools can help you improve your driving. But those will only take you so far. The last distance to cover to become a really good racer comes from within yourself. It won't be delivered to you by features such as forces view while driving.

--
A moderation note in general : this thread already started a little heated, so it's not weird to see heated replies. But every time I see a post that just says someone's a retard, I die a little inside. Why is that necessary? I'm in a good mood now, but don't be surprised if one day i apply an instant ban on such posters. I hate pointless aggression with a passion.

but force mode is something above view. a person who activates F mode, sees not only his car, but all the cars around as just tires and sticks. then there comes reality part, the reality disappears for a guy who uses such mode.

there is no custom view that enables you to see the wheel, see the tires but just not the car's body. so in that part i believe its an advantage

at the very least, can't you guys show it on hotlap rankings if force mode is used or not?

But it is NOT an advantage! If something, it's an disadvantage. Are you faster with the "force mode" on? No, you are NOT. Why can't you accept that? Just try it in the game...

Quote from S.E.T.H :

but all the cars around as just tires and sticks. then there comes reality part, the reality disappears for a guy who uses such mode.

But the problem is that noone (I'm not talking about new guys) uses this mode, so realism doesn't dissapear.

circlejerk marathon

you can use custom view when hotlapping.
sure, there are force view users on the hotlap rankings... mainly in the lower end of the rankings, because such a view is simply distracting for a people whos actually trying to concentrate on nailing every single apex and exit.

Sometimes you just need to let go of your conspiracy theories and actually believe the countless views youve gotten from "the other side", aka the people who actually drive&race in LFS.

I know it can be hard to do, as badasses only conclude arguments on the internet by one of the parties getting banned.
But do try. And ultimately, practice practice practice, even though it seems frustrating when other people are faster than you and you cannot figure out why.

Same applies e.g. to F9 - tyre view. It is quite an advantage when it is on, because you can better judge your tyre temperature and adjust your driving accordingly. But noone wants to get it removed.

Quote from S.E.T.H :

but force mode is something above view. a person who activates F mode, sees not only his car, but all the cars around as just tires and sticks. then there comes reality part, the reality disappears for a guy who uses such mode.

Then why would he use it in the first place? It's not meant to be used while racing. It's meant to be used to test your setup changes. Noone uses it while racing because it's not realistic or convenient. It can even be considered distracting.

Quote from S.E.T.H :

there is no custom view that enables you to see the wheel, see the tires but just not the car's body. so in that part i believe its an advantage

at the very least, can't you guys show it on hotlap rankings if force mode is used or not?

Not right now, no. That information is not stored inside hotlap files. It will also be a bit problematic to store it, because when would it be considered 'having used the forces mode'? It can be toggled at will. Would 1 second usage tag a hotlap as being raced in Forces view?
No, I'm sorry, but this is going way too far for something I don't believe is a problem to begin with.

Quote from S.E.T.H :

one guy will not be enough, there are the ones that use and get advantage of it.

there are ones that does not use it + no other cheats and really fast respective people. >> the guy in the video drops in latter group probably.

Here's some simple logic for you S.E.T.H

Forces view is not considered cheating in this community.
People competing for WR hotlaps will use any advantage considered fair.
Considering these two clear facts, if F view gave an advantage as you state, then ALL the WRs would be driven with F view. If it were an advantage, anyone not using it would not have a chance of setting a world record. You would not be able to get WR without F view - cometition it just too close.
Therefor, any WR obtained without F view would prove that f view is not an advantage.
Evidence has been provided that a world record was driven without using forces view. This single WR proves that you are wrong.

This is logical proof.

Col

Quote from Nadeo4441 :

But it is NOT an advantage! If something, it's an disadvantage. Are you faster with the "force mode" on? No, you are NOT. Why can't you accept that? Just try it in the game...

I cant believe im saying this, but he actually has a point (even if it only applys in a race and only rare cases)
While driving close behind another car, and all you see is the rear of your opponent, it 'can' be difficult to hit the exact point to turn into a cicane, for example. Not having the body of the other car visble can help...

But that is really as much advantage i can possibly see. There is no advantage in HL mode because, you'd achive the same result with practise or a custom view.

Another thing is, SETH, the HL chart, with all respect to the aliens who get this doen, it only show what is possible within the limits of the physics engine and it's pointless to get upset of it, let alone make this a reason not to by the full game and miss out on all teh racing fun.
After all it's one of the most realistic Simulators available.

Quote from Victor :

Then why would he use it in the first place? It's not meant to be used while racing. It's meant to be used to test your setup changes. Noone uses it while racing because it's not realistic or convenient. It can even be considered distracting.


Not right now, no. That information is not stored inside hotlap files. It will also be a bit problematic to store it, because when would it be considered 'having used the forces mode'? It can be toggled at will. Would 1 second usage tag a hotlap as being raced in Forces view?
No, I'm sorry, but this is going way too far for something I don't believe is a problem to begin with.

you know people want more, if i can go faster with that mode, i don't care if it is realistic or not i'd go for it, but i'd not have fun thats why i dont use it. i dont agree with you when you say that noone uses it. there is already a guy under the thread who used it - L@gger, and IMOL too, probably using it.

Quote from S.E.T.H :

you know people want more, if i can go faster with that mode, i don't care if it is realistic or not i'd go for it, but i'd not have fun thats why i dont use it. i dont agree with you when you say that noone uses it. there is already a guy under the thread who used it - L@gger, and IMOL too, probably using it.

...
I understand that attention is important for you and you feel like you are bringing up a huge issue to the eyes of the community just to blend in.

While in reality you just managed to fabricated an issue that does not exist, or atleast is not even remotely prevalent.

Can you please stop now, you have received countless counter-arguments, discussing various aspect of the issue.
Yet you continue to post, saying you apparently 'don't care', smacking the same nail with a hammer, even though its already bent.
Its not going in like this dude.

Wow, I think this thread has run its course.

Seth has clearly made up his mind and is not willing to beleive anything anyone is saying so nothing more positive will come of it just more of the same.

Seth, I don't use this mode and I can name many more that don't use this mode. I'm sure others can say the same thing, find them and race them if it matters so much. At least you'll know no one is "cheating" you.

Force mode does not make you any faster

End of thread.

Quote from DarknessPainF1 :

Force mode does not make you any faster

End of thread.

This.
I still cant understand how F view can make you faster

My post deleted as childish? Then what the heck is this thread all about?

ZOMG GUYZ - WE NEED TO REMOVE CUSTOM VIEW TOO COS THAT MAKES YOU EVEN FASTAR1111!!!

[slightly more serious]This pretty much explains why custom view is much worse than forces - you see everything you do in forces without the forces [/serious]

Quote from S.E.T.H :

you know people want more, if i can go faster with that mode, i don't care if it is realistic or not i'd go for it, but i'd not have fun thats why i dont use it. i dont agree with you when you say that noone uses it. there is already a guy under the thread who used it - L@gger, and IMOL too, probably using it.

What?? What you mean?! I think everyone, not even from my Team will confirm that im not using Shift-F AT ALL! Never!

okay. my final post then.

thanks Victor for caring about the player and replying.

no thank for those who sent useless messages and swor me, or make fun of it

thanks alot for those who tried to explain to me

thanks alot for Nilex [FU]Nilex having me in a demo server and explaining me so much about the game.

i'll try and be fast, and hopefully if i like it, i'll buy S2.

will let you know about my improvements in game. if i find some glitches, i'll be here as you know

last point of mine;

i am not a troll.

i am not hungry for attention.
i'd still like it to be removed in hotlapping and online or if it is not possible;

i'd request force mode user should see only his car with sticks + tires.

i don't want to be seen sitting in air in the middle of 4 tires.

thanks.

now you can listen to this song of Victory

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0kGAz6HYM8

see you guys around!

you have been in this game for 1 month, have not spent a penny on it, and are telling us how our game should be played. You've got some stones.

I was there and saw it, so gotta thank to Nilex as well. I admire his persistence and patience combined with good explanation and argumentation, which in the end probably saved the day.

Oh cool Victor is alive.

Glad you came to a conclusion Seth. I don't really think its a problem for hotlaps, as custom view can do nearly the same just without the annoying bars.

I never found any view that gave me any speed advantage over cockpit view.

Absolutely no need to remove 'F' view. It does not and never will give you an advantage. End of story.

I am pretty inactive these days, but at my time back in 2008-9 I've got couple of GTR WRs as well as some other, something about 15. The point is that I was always using cockpit view without F mode on, I knew it would just help me to crash. For example, when braking into T1 of some corner with GTR where you need a sort of slide, you absolutely have no time at all to even react or to be aware of those force lines and what's going on there. It just distracts you and therefore makes you slower. I agree your frustration as in demo there is no "fast" car such as FZR, XRR, or anything faster than FBM which might be fast but is easy to drive. My point is that I never used it, never missed it, times when I tried it made nothing good at all for me. I simply think it's impossible to use it real-time, you must be either alien, Jedi or both. People drive with it and they think that it makes them faster, but actually the only thing which might make them faster is that custom view and the fact they see where the curb is, so they can get closer with the tyre. Nothing more. No lines, it's simply not helpful, I can't even imagine a race with it. I would crash 150 times because of it. I've been around "top" teams since 2008 and I met noone who would use it and profit from it. Just my 2 cents.

Quote from S.E.T.H :

i talked about this, bring a test/setup environment in game, and put all of the features in there.

and i don't really know why we are able to see if brake help, auto clutch etc is used in hotlaps and we are not able to see if F mode is used or not.

Wow! I didn't expect that.
what is the difference in having a test/setup environment if you have to switch between this and hotlap mode than what I wrote.. You are an ignorant douche.

Get a life.