What bubble?



This is a bubble;

http://stockcharts.com/h-sc/ui ... p;g=0&id=p32621012153

Quote from RiseAgainstMe! :

http://www.npr.org/blogs/money ... dcast-gold-standard-r-i-p

This basically sums up my beliefs and my understanding of history.

You might want to understand what actually caused the Great depression before you criticize the Gold standard.

Quote from RiseAgainstMe! :

No, they support him because his policies validate their racism and give them the opportunity to create laws that discriminate against minorities. I am strongly against that, and I will never vote for a candidate with such regressive policies.

As if he hasn't done enough to prove his own racism over the years...

what racism has he shown, a bunch of Newspaper articles that the media purposely forgot to mention who actually wrote them, reality check made an video on youtube proving this completely false.

Quote from cargame.nl :

What bubble?

This is a bubble;

I posted basically the exact same chart you did, except mine was more up to date... prices have continued sharply up since 2010. The chart is even more telling if it has the years before 1970 on them, when adjusted prices were pretty low. It spiked sharply up, then crashed, and kept losing value for over 20 years until it finally returned to a more historical valuation... Recently, it has spiked up in a similar manner. It is largely manipulated by gold companies, who push up the price of gold for their own profit, causing a bubble.

Quote from Mustafur :

You might want to understand what actually caused the Great depression before you criticize the Gold standard.

The causes of the Great Depression still are fodder for widespread debate. There are several confounding factors. The Fed was still a new institution and didn't quite have an handle on everything yet. Tying money into a fixed commodity (gold) caused a massive panic of people trying to withdraw their gold, which in turn led to banks shutting down when they could not meet the demands.

What is not up for debate is that taking countries off the gold standard was key to recovery. That point in time coincides precisely with the beginning of the recovery. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wi ... s/d/da/GDP_depression.svg

I don't know what your misconception of the gold standard as a nice time is. It was not all fine and dandy. Please read about the Free Banking Era, when there was no federal oversight. The next era had national banks, but that had major problems too... There were frequent panics and depressions because of problems with the liquidity of having currency based in a finite good.

Quote from Mustafur :

what racism has he shown, a bunch of Newspaper articles that the media purposely forgot to mention who actually wrote them, reality check made an video on youtube proving this completely false.

He was responsible for them at the very least. If someone hires a speechwriter, they are responsible for what is said. Likewise, if someone hires a writer, he is responsible for what is said under his name. Second, he did not disavow those newsletters at first, only 'disavowing' them after a large blowback threatened his candidacy for senate.. But I tend to automatically assume that all politicians are lying or telling half-truths. So we can just look at their policies. He was against the Civil Rights Act, on the grounds that it removed the right of white people to discriminate against others. Forget about the rights of the minorities to not be discriminated against... Ron Paul advocates letting states determine for themselves race laws. That's right, states could choose to re-institute slavery. That's not something I can get behind, even giving someone the opportunity to be that blatantly bigoted, and remove human rights from other groups of individuals. He enjoys widespread support from white supremacists because of this.

Besides, I really should have said discriminatory, rather than racist... Because he's far more blatantly anti-gay than he is racist. DoMA and the Marriage Protection Act are two more reasons I can't get behind him. Oh the irony of a libertarian trying to use the federal government to make sure homosexuals don't recieve rights... It boggles the mind.

I fail to see how mass debt, inflating the currency and reducing the buying power and making everyone poor effectively overall helped them recover, WW2 in a way let the rebuilding process happen much faster, but keynesian philosophy is incredibly flawed and only know are people starting to question it, since there is no war to hide the true effect of it.

Doma isn't even anti gay all it does is give states more rights over what they want to choose, its also something thats consistent with his platform, please show me any source saying he doesn't want homosexual marriage?

Civil rights act is also a bad act in terms of property rights, a owner of an establishment should have the ability to eject anyone from it for no matter what reason because its their establishment, this is what Paul argues not some racist crap you try to make up.

Libertarianism is based on non Force, you can't replace a forced segregation law with a forced acceptance law and it be okay.

Quote from RiseAgainstMe! :

have fun with that one


I still prefer something that can be controlled to some degree by the governemnt, rather than by the rate of gold production and how much people want something shiny, which are mostly random.

You do know the fed is a private entity don't you?

Quote from Intrepid :

You do know the fed is a private entity don't you?

and they still refuse to do an Audit to see what is actually happening.

Quote from Mustafur :

Doma isn't even anti gay all it does is give states more rights over what they want to choose, its also something thats consistent with his platform, please show me any source saying he doesn't want homosexual marriage?

DoMA explicitly defines marriage as between a man and a woman at the federal level. There is a significant case that it is unconstitutional, and thus the justice department has said they will not defend it in court anymore... I don't know what you think DoMA is This is a bill he co-sponsored. Not very libertarian to restrict the rights of homosexuals at the federal level... double irony.

The Marriage protection act was a bill that attempted to make it illegal to challenge DoMA at the federal court level... That's just ****ed up and shit, yo.

Quote from Mustafur :

Civil rights act is also a bad act in terms of property rights, a owner of an establishment should have the ability to eject anyone from it for no matter what reason because its their establishment, this is what Paul argues not some racist crap you try to make up.

Libertarianism is based on non Force, you can't replace a forced segregation law with a forced acceptance law and it be okay.

I would rather guarantee a basic minimum of rights for everyone than allow those who wish to be freely bigoted to do so. I don't want Jim Crow back in our society.

Quote from Intrepid :

You do know the fed is a private entity don't you?

It's a part of the government... The president chooses the leaders of the fed, they have to give periodic reports to congress. But the head of the fed cannot be removed once appointed, until his term is up. And they act independently from the other branches of government. So it's a weird hybrid child... the best way I can think of to describe it is independent within the government.

So am I for more oversight of the Fed? Yeah probably. Our system is based on checks and balances, seems odd to have such a integral part of society with so little oversight. But I'm still deadset against the gold standard.

Quote from RiseAgainstMe! :

So am I for more oversight of the Fed? Yeah probably. Our system is based on checks and balances, seems odd to have such a integral part of society with so little oversight. But I'm still deadset against the gold standard.

Well let's see how fiat currency has performaned in America over the last 30 years.... oh you're in trillions of dollars of debt, the banks own everyone, and you're broke... so yh good job

Gold isn't perfect, but it's much better than fiat currency. See, the gold I have in my pocket can not be diluted so some politician can win their next election.

Quote from RiseAgainstMe! :

I still prefer something that can be controlled to some degree by the governemnt, rather than by the rate of gold production and how much people want something shiny, which are mostly random.

...by control you mean...continue to print more and dilute the **** out of it's value till it's valueless? yeah...sound pretty awesome.

Please, please, please read some history about economic climates under the gold standard. They were absolutely awful, crippled growth, caused frequent panics, and in the end our economy had to leave it to avoid total collapse, as did every other nation. When the economy's growth outstrips the supply of gold, there are major issues.

Now we resemble a merry-go-round. Since y'all seem so entrenched in your opinions that there is no way I can make a dent, I'm out.

Quote from RiseAgainstMe! :

Please, please, please read some history about economic climates under the gold standard. They were absolutely awful, crippled growth, caused frequent panics, and in the end our economy had to leave it to avoid total collapse, as did every other nation. When the economy's growth outstrips the supply of gold, there are major issues.

Now we resemble a merry-go-round. Since y'all seem so entrenched in your opinions that there is no way I can make a dent, I'm out.

We are in the biggest financial crisis ever, period. So when you look back at history you may believe gold was the problem, but where I am sitting we're in the biggest amount of shit we have ever been in.

So we left the gold standard to avoid total collapse, yet somehow within a 30 year period have entered into the biggest financial disaster in human history. I know my history, and am totally aware of what we face now today with fiat currency. It hasn't works, the project has failed, time to wake up.

Gold/silver isn't perfect, but I am just observing the absolutely disaster we are now facing with fiat currency, and it's worse.

Britain started and succeeded with the industrial revolution on a gold standard and with a fiat currency we are now bankrupt. Great job. Fiat currencies ftw yaayyy everyone in masses of debt and ****ed yayyyy

Quote from P5YcHoM4N :

Sounds like right wing bullshit to me. "Them there communists are out to get ye!" "SHOW YOUR BIRTH CERTIFICATE!"

It is also funny that the right are accusing Obama of corrupting American politics by only focusing on his own interests not that of the people, you know, like the Reps have never done that. Oh wait, hang on...

I'm sure you don't always agree with your president's actions.

Quote from Intrepid :

The sky is falling! The sky is falling!

The gold standard started to show cracks when people where manipulating money flow, it wasn't the fault of the currency.

either way im sure your a big follower of krugman so i just want to post this: http://25.media.tumblr.com/tum ... o2wd0Ckt1qmzxy4o1_500.jpg

That thinking is exactly what caused this crisis to explode in the first place not that it wasn't inevitable anyway with these failed Keynesian philosophies.