And apart from this race, which other middle-eastern and asian races have been good to watch? I can count...uh...this race..and maybe the 2010 Abu Dhabi GP just because it was a title decider.
Let's hope so.
And apart from this race, which other middle-eastern and asian races have been good to watch? I can count...uh...this race..and maybe the 2010 Abu Dhabi GP just because it was a title decider.
Let's hope so.
To drive I think Magny-Cours is one of the all time great circuits.
Suzuka 2010 and 2011. Fuji in 2008. Singapore is usually pretty good.
With DRS and Pirelli tyres, most tracks are capable of producing good races, but those I've mentioned were good even without them.
I haven't seen a good race for a long time. I've seen a lot of fake bollocks, but nothing truly 'good' or with actual depth and dynamic.
Well you haven't been watching hard enough. DRS basically allows faster cars to pass the slower ones, meaning a race result is more competitive (IE the fastest guy isn't getting boxed in by Massa and can't attack the leader).
DRS is fakery, but given than in both China and Bahrain we've seen overtaking outside of the DRS zone, I think they've got the DRS system nailed. DRS doesn't help a driver overtake if he's not faster anyway, he still has to get within DRS range and he still has to pull away after the overtake.
It's not like every pass is due to the DRS and the same two drivers swap positions in the DRS zone every lap as you make it sound.
DRS system nailed? Do you know how close you need to be to overtake someone in F1? I'll give you a hint, it's not one second. I can remember some basic rules from pre-DRS era that it was somewhere 0.3-0.4 seconds difference depending on the track that even allowed you to try to overtake. With DRS I'd guess it's somewhere in the 0.4 range at the moment. This means that the 0.4-1.0 difference is only giving an unfair advantage to the driver behind because they are just getting a free boost to their cars.
Also the fact that overtakes happen in other places than in DRS zones as well just tells you that DRS is useless because people can overtake without it in worse places. Imagine if we didn't have the DRS, We'd still see the most overtakes in the current DRS zones because they are the generally in the best places overtake.
DRS also becomes useless if there are many drivers because in the middle of the ''train'' everyone has DRS and it's of no use to them (other than keeping up with the ones in front)
Besides, betting stuck behind the slower cars was previously one very important factor in strategies and made the races interesting. Now nobody cares about where they end up because they can use DRS
I've been watching less and less F1 now, so it isn't bothering me so much. DRS, whichever you rap it, is bollocks.
I completely understand and appreciate the concept, like I can completely understand and appreciate why some popstars will mime during a routine. It achieves a result which on the whole the masses will be satisfied with.
But for me I want to see professional drivers go toe to toe without any outside engineering, and luckily I can find that somewhere else.
I don't like it being necessary, but I hate the dirty air effect so much that I do feel it is necessary. At least now something might actually happen once a driver has slowly reeled in the car in front.
Are passes devalued? Yes, a lot, but this is the lesser of two evils, and until F1 does something about air turbulence and its huge effect on the following car, I'm happy for drs to help out.
Are passes devalued? Yes, a lot, but this is the lesser of two evils, and until F1 does something about air turbulence and its huge effect on the following car, I'm happy for drs to help out.
It's not like passing someone on a straight piece of road in a tow is difficult, DRS is effectively just giving back the tow that we used to have, although exaggerated.
Frankly we've seen so many passes outside of DRS zones that the wings and no diffuser thing is working enough to rule out pure necessity of DRS. As one of the guys said you still have to be inside .4sec or I'd go even more precise .35 to have real effect of it and I'd like to add, which is then too big of an effect. If DRS worked on .5 and didn't pull the car that much it would have been awesome. And if it worked same on .5 and .2, to extent i mean on .5 to get car half aside the car in front and on .2 to have car half ahead. So since it works in such way that it does what was previously seen as .25 is now .35 it doesn't really help, as to get under .4 even without any df loss effect you have to be a true master. Try it yourself in lfs with someone on same pace and you'll see what I'm talking about. So it's the situation of either you pass pretty much straight away or you don't pass at all. So DRS has taken out that thrill of a lengthy battle where the guy in front could make mistake at any time and be overhauled, since the guy behind tried to stay very much closer as he knew there is no DRS to help him relax. And then there is multiple car trains where overtaking is impossible which is absolute disaster. So yeah, with KERS back and all the other factors worked out I'd love to see DRS gone from the next year.
I think of DRS as being away to negate or recover the time lost in the dirty air following a car ahead. So what if it's gimmicky, it works. The races are much more exciting than the non-DRS days (although Pirelli has probably had a bigger contribution to that). More variables are a good thing in my book, "fake" or otherwise.
Edit: DRS doesn't just directly create overtaking opportunities either, it also works indirectly allowing the car behind to close up the gap enough a lot of the time to make a pass at some later stage in the lap, or to at least create some "racing" which wouldn't otherwise have happened without it.
Edit: DRS doesn't just directly create overtaking opportunities either, it also works indirectly allowing the car behind to close up the gap enough a lot of the time to make a pass at some later stage in the lap, or to at least create some "racing" which wouldn't otherwise have happened without it.
I don't know. It's still quite unfair and takes the edge off the passing thrill and also unnecessary since the diffusers are almost gone now. Also, if someone closes the gap from let's say 5 sec or whatever Kimi did to Vettel, it doesn't matter if he closes that final bit in a lap or two, does it.
And we will never see an impossible passes like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLZLxT1ZEPA pass from the era when overtaking was unimaginable.
For me, I'd rather see just one amazing overtake in few races than lot of this shit all the time.
And we will never see an impossible passes like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLZLxT1ZEPA pass from the era when overtaking was unimaginable.
For me, I'd rather see just one amazing overtake in few races than lot of this shit all the time.
Vettel already did a pass just like that this year... Pretty sure it wasn't in the DRS zone.
I agree, it's not an out and out 'push2pass' scenario where drivers can use it where ever they choose, it's a set zone on every circuit so tactically there's still some skill and planning involved in getting within that zone or staying out of it (in relation to defending) also the KERS helps to add to DRS not being a garenteed overtake.
People see DRS as a gimmick and a garenteed overtake but it's not, and that's why it's welcome in F1 IMO.
As for KERS, just think of it as a turbo overdrive boost mapping, as we've seen in F1 before.
lolwhat.. that pass of his was at like 120kmh.
Still the same principles involved. Just at lower speed.
No, it's not the same. Not only that speed is very different. Alonso was chasing Schumi for ever so many laps before pulling that magnificent pass, and Vettel just went by at chaos of starting race. Give me a pass that is out of first 1/4 of the race that is really valuable.
If we go back to 80's the number of passes was just half of what we have now and people loved racing double more. Number of pits was barely one per race and only in some races two and yet people loved it for what F1 always was, driving on the edge. DRS would have been a lot more useful if they gave teams freedom to drive on the edge as it was in 2008 (aerodynamic and tire freedom), but with all the restrictions in place I just don't see absolutely any need for DRS help, not this year when the diffusers are gone.
And what's it going to be like next year, we can only imagine with those engines and that lengthy KERS the variety of passing involved.
EDIT: Although on tracks like Barcelona it's welcome even in the situation in which we are atm, but there is only very few tracks like that.
EDIT2: I thought of a great pass. Hamilton on Rosberg this Bahrain race, which is of course outside the DRS zone. :P
There's no pleasing some people, NIKI is one of those. 
You moan about non DRS overtakes but say overtakes in the first quarter of a race are irrelevant?
You moan about non DRS overtakes but say overtakes in the first quarter of a race are irrelevant?
Oh well. Pleasing is good, but too much of anything is always wrong. And no, passes in first quarter of the race are just as relevant for the race of whoever is involved, I'm just saying it's not the the same to compare it with passes outside of that zone for an experienced one like I am.
Yeah, and WWE is real fighting.
It's not the same. AT ALL. That is the worst analogy I've ever seen.
Agreed on all of this.
I want to sit in a room with you guys as you watch F1 because I want to witness someone getting excited by this mess they call 'racing'.
What about all the passes outside the DRS zone? Do any of those count? Or are they just thrown out because DRS is "allowed" even if it isn't taking place during a given overtake?
Formula One Season 2012
(1268 posts, started )
FGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG