The reason why most over games are popular it is because modders are allowed to add content.

When will us modders be allowed to add more cars/tracks to LFS?

I've wanted to add my 3D modeled Intial D tracks and cars for a long time now!

LFS is better off without everyones shitty cars and tracks. If you want modding go to rfactor or AC.

If you need to mod go to
http://www.allthemodsforyou.com/

Quote from sil3ntwar :

LFS is better off without everyones shitty cars and tracks.

So are you saying that Scawen and Eric are the most talented people in the whole world and if anyone else tries to create anything it will be shit by definition?
There are skilled people all around you, you just didnt noticed them with your head the way it is.

Quote from Chupacabras84 :

So are you saying that Scawen and Eric are the most talented people in the whole world and if anyone else tries to create anything it will be shit by definition?
There are skilled people all around you, you just didnt noticed them with your head the way it is.

Those skilled people would invade the few good servers and there would be no more normal races. Plus the performance hit the low end computers would take because of the sloppy modding.

Quote from CheerioDM :

Those skilled people would invade the few good servers and there would be no more normal races. Plus the performance hit the low end computers would take because of the sloppy modding.

So whats stopping you from only playing on non modded servers?

Quote from Zac86 :

So whats stopping you from only playing on non modded servers?

+1 for smartness

Quote from CheerioDM :

Those skilled people would invade the few good servers and there would be no more normal races.

And why is that?
Do you mean no one would want to race stock versions so you want to force them?
In any case making servers reject modded LFS installations would solve the problem.

Quote from CheerioDM :

Plus the performance hit the low end computers would take because of the sloppy modding.

There are more resource demanding racing games that can handle badly optimised cars and tracks without a problem, I cant imagine how bad mod must be optimised to lag at LFS.
But again its "No one can do anything right but devs" attitude.

Personally I am grateful that LFS has stayed out of modding. In a way it forces everybody to drive under the same conditions (like you mention chupa). It could be seen as a good way of assuring fair conditions for competitions. Also you stay a long time with the same vehicle and actually gets to know it, how to set it up and exploit its strong and weak points. (And just that becomes fun in the long run). With a large mod selection it is "easy"/tempting to jump from a car to another without developing skills for any of them.

However I also see the other side of the coin. With modding allowed, we'd have seen some excellent vehicles and probably 1000s of bad ones. The ratio does not really matter since the good ones would survive and make it into servers and leagues. Filtered by the racers so to say. I guess RBR is a good example where modding has actually ensured the games survival.

If I were a developer of a racing game I'd certainly think twice before deciding on this issue. I would probably do as Scavier though, allowing the team to focus on physics and features rather than providing tools/support/updates/fixes and what not would come from letting loose the art of modding .

Quote from Ingolf :

...

+1 It would be interesting to see how LFS would incorporate mods though, most of the issues with mods in other games is due to hack and slash methods of adding them, a proper system for adding mods would include checks to filter out anything badly done. /me longs for the day when I can go to Audi's site and pay maybe 20 euro for a copy of this years Le Mans car that will work with any up to date and respectable game and maybe 50 euro for an exact model of this years Le Mans circuit to race it on, half that for last years and any amount of mod community cars and tracks for free and they will all just work(tm).

Last I remember, the word was that modding will be looked at (read: considered, not promised) when the final LFS is final. I.e., when S3 is approaching final. Though, if the release plan changes from the three-stage model to something different entirely, anything can happen. A thing to note: the changes to autocross objects are quite recent (relatively), were "unnecessary" w.r.t. physics and Eric's content and still happened. It's hard to look at this change and believe that Scavierge are entirely opposed to player content.

Quote from Ingolf :

If I were a developer of a racing game I'd certainly think twice before deciding on this issue.

It's a no-brainer for me.

ArmaII was released in 2009. Earlier this week it jumped to the top of the Steam top sold list because of a mod. There was no sale, there was no special offer. People were paying full wack, for an "old" game, because of a mod. Like it or not, no one here should argue against LFS being in the same category of "old", and no one should make any bones about potential customers considering not wanting to invest time and money in LFS when they look at it's apparent age.

In a multi-player scenario, as long as the server determines what mods can be used, just like every other sane mod-able game in history, there's no reason to be worried about mods. If a mod becomes popular, awesome. If it doesnt those servers will die, and there will always be people who want to play LFS 'vanilla'.

ArmaII isn't by any stretch the only example here, but it is the most recent and most prevalent that I can think of in the last few months which directly puts money into the developers pocket - for near zero effort post release - obviously LFS needs work to permit mods right now, so thats not an applicable argument at the moment.

The argument for not allowing mods because the LFS developers want to be able to alter and rev the API at will? Who cares. Label it as perpetually unstable, make no guarantees to stability, and make it really really clear - if the modders don't understand that, then it's their own fault. The linux kernel internal APIs aren't necessarily guaranteed stable between minor releases - and it copes absolutely fine because there are no guarantees made of internal API stability.

Quote from the_angry_angel :

The argument for not allowing mods because the LFS developers want to be able to alter and rev the API at will? Who cares. Label it as perpetually unstable, make no guarantees to stability, and make it really really clear - if the modders don't understand that, then it's their own fault. The linux kernel internal APIs aren't necessarily guaranteed stable between minor releases - and it copes absolutely fine because there are no guarantees made of internal API stability.

WHo cares? The devs do for a start

It doesn't matter how many times and how clearly the write that the formats may change, when they do, there will be an uproar.
It makes sense to me that Scavier want to retain control while they are still developing LFS.
If the popularity of a game depends on mods, that seriously restricts future development. You can't make major changes to data formats for any of the mod-able assets without damaging the games reputation.

Another issue is stability. at the moment, it may be that there are lots of ways to create unstable content that causes physics and or networking components to collapse, or glitch. It's easy for Scawen to work with Eric to avoid any problems. If they were to go down the mod route, the tools and the game engine would potentially need a LOT of work to get them to the point where they were robust and free from exploits, security weaknesses and just plain gotcha's.

Quote from Chupacabras84 :

So are you saying that Scawen and Eric are the most talented people in the whole world and if anyone else tries to create anything it will be shit by definition?

I imagine there are plenty of people capable of creating a shit hot Driving simulation. And if they choose to do it will also want to choose how to do it and decide for themselves whether to allow others to 'enhance' their project.

Quote from Zac86 :

The reason why most over games are popular it is because modders are allowed to add content.

iRacing, SimRaceway and Project CARS are popular because modders aren't allowed to add content so everyone races with the same cars with realistic physics.

Problem?

_____________________

The biggest problem with mods, from my point of view, its because just 1% of the mods use realistic physics, what changes the point of the game from a simulator to arcade...

Just look the newest F1 mods for rFactor... Bad physics, but people just drive they because are the newest mods. rFactor become F1 Codemasters, arcade physics with good graphics...

I would prefer the game without mods, because every new car gets a lot of study and testing to get the most perfect simulation, we saw it on LFS with the FBM, we see it on SimRaceway, we see it on iRacing, but there is only 1 mod on rFactor made with real data and with help of real drivers (CART Factor)...


What you prefer, 2000 different cars with arcade physics or 30 cars with realistic physics? Think about it

I was thinking about this today and the future of sim racing and how best to ensure Live For Speeds furture amongst the many other sims. Firstly let me say that I have no doubts about this great sims furture in the P.C market place and will fully support the S3 add-on pack when it's released into the commercial domain. But I suspect that like many of you I would like to see the developers take LFS far beyond any other sim on the market place, and guarantee it's place in the history books.

One of the many options people talk about with sims is the ability to be able to mod the sim, I hope that if this actually happens with LFS all of the mods created have to be approved and tested via the LFS team before there general release. The reason I say this is that with a few other sims I play I have been hit with compatibility issues whilst playing online. The scene would be set that I would download a track or a car update, go online to race, only to find my version was either to new or to old to what everyone else was playing, this was one of the main reasons I came full circle and returned to running LFS as it sets itself as a standard platform.

Another option they could look into would be to have "paid" content updates that either the LFS team developed or that were developed by the community.

Don't all hate me for saying this before I explain what I mean by paid content.

I think a system of "modders" rewards could work with LFS.

Basically the LFS team would release the tools needed to mod the sim and then if a team or individual worked on a mod, all be it a plug in, a track or a car they could submit there content to the LFS team, and if there add-on is approved it's released as either a free download or a paid download.

Were not talking MEGA money here, say £0.50p ? or a couple of pounds. Then the modders who worked on it could have a small % reward for there hard work.

However If they chose to give there work to the community for free then even better, we get it for free, but each content would be tested and approved to be 100% compatible with LFS. I know this may mean that some add-ons would take longer to reach us but I think it would add to an already mighty sim.

LfS Modding would be very good BUT (the big BUT) is when all can Mod LfS with new Cars and Tracks over 99% of this User-Made-Content would be more then shit!

See the one site with Mod-Cars there are a Car that looks like a elephant... This fu** we dont need!

So... If there comes a Editor to make new Cars and Tracks then only Publish by the Devs. If the Car/Track is good enough for LfS then the Devs can make this Content Public if not then the Devs Send a short Mail to the Author with a little Information or what ever without Public the Content and good is!

I wish me too i can make a New Track for LfS like a Street-Section here in my City for a bit Rallye-Feeling is LfS

Before this ends up in a multi page topic again.....

Tire physics first. End of story.

Quote from cargame.nl :

Tire physics first. End of story.

Amen.

Quote from Zac86 :

So whats stopping you from only playing on non modded servers?

Over your head.
Less people populating non modded servers. Less fun.
And the mod forums would look just like the comments section on many popular
torrent sites. "Why isn't this working for me? Do I need to download the patch?. I have a Dell. Does this not run on Dell?"

Sorry I just come from a modding background.

I originally started 3D modeling and adding cars into Midtown Madness 2 and it was great having your own personal car in game and such.

Tyre physics are overrated

On the other hand, big YES to mod support.

Quote from the_angry_angel :

It's a no-brainer for me.

ArmaII was released in 2009. Earlier this week it jumped to the top of the Steam top sold list because of a mod. There was no sale, there was no special offer. People were paying full wack, for an "old" game, because of a mod. Like it or not, no one here should argue against LFS being in the same category of "old", and no one should make any bones about potential customers considering not wanting to invest time and money in LFS when they look at it's apparent age.

In a multi-player scenario, as long as the server determines what mods can be used, just like every other sane mod-able game in history, there's no reason to be worried about mods. If a mod becomes popular, awesome. If it doesnt those servers will die, and there will always be people who want to play LFS 'vanilla'.

ArmaII isn't by any stretch the only example here, but it is the most recent and most prevalent that I can think of in the last few months which directly puts money into the developers pocket - for near zero effort post release - obviously LFS needs work to permit mods right now, so thats not an applicable argument at the moment.

The argument for not allowing mods because the LFS developers want to be able to alter and rev the API at will? Who cares. Label it as perpetually unstable, make no guarantees to stability, and make it really really clear - if the modders don't understand that, then it's their own fault. The linux kernel internal APIs aren't necessarily guaranteed stable between minor releases - and it copes absolutely fine because there are no guarantees made of internal API stability.

Everybody quit whining about LFS, buy ArmA2 and get the DayZ mod! It absolutely rocks and will easily keep you entertained until the next LFS progress report in December

Quote from paulinho :

I
One of the many options people talk about with sims is the ability to be able to mod the sim, I hope that if this actually happens with LFS all of the mods created have to be approved and tested via the LFS team before there general release.

i totaly agree with you. And i think its enough for LFS when Scawen finished his Tyre update and did some work on changeable weathercondition and alternation of day and night. This is in my opionion the most easiest way to get a new experience in LFS for short and long Races. Maybe a stable Version for a starter Grid up to 100+, like the 24h Nuerburgring.