I think we need more tuning options, such as turbo sizes, A/R, fuel ratio adjustments, engine size, stroke, bore, and all of it must be percise, such as if you put on a bigger turbo, you have to tune the AFR in 1k increments or so, so as not to burn up your engine. Would add more depth to the game, and teach people more about cars.
This and many other options should be available like what actual engine you want in the car (server option of corse) so you can do a wide range of cars, like putting a straight 6 3.0 in the GTR and picking turbo size, then you have to tune the car, so you dont blow it up.
would keep noobs from just throwing any engine in anything with a huge turbo, as you would actually have to know what you are doing. : )
not only has this been gone over so many times, it would just make the game SO much more complicated than it needs to be, i cant imagine anyone that will play a game where you have to know what your doing in order to do fairly well..
Now, while I am against this suggestion, I must admit you have gone about it in the proper way.
You have given valid arguments for it, instead of just wanting some hotshot car and so forth like 90% of the time this kind of thing does get suggested.
But, I am still against it. If it were something more like a "mix-and-match" type thing where you pick your chassis (XRR, FXR, FZR) and then pick your engine supplier I think it'd be neat, although, not really plausable in GTR cars, it could be good for LMP type cars where it is common for 3 cars using the same chassis to have 3 different engines.
For instance, the Acura engine coming in to play in P2 sometime soon. One Courage team might run with a Judd engine, while another runs with an Acura, and so forth.
Would add a little variety I suppose, without forcing you to know everything about how a car works to be competative, as all the engines would be at the same level approximately. Maybe make on manufacturer have a twin-turbo'd engine, one naturally aspirated, and.. well.. that's all i can think of :P
Very very simplistic tuning you mean, much like the crappy tuning in GT4?
Or precise perhaps
Ik increments of what? I think it is you and not other people that need to do a bit of research on the topic. If you put on a bigger turbo sure you'll have to rejet/remap the engine, but if you are suggesting a full remap of the engine then you are kidding yourself - LFS cannot and does not simulate the engine in enough detail to do this. Hell, software like WAVE from Ricardo is designed specifically to model engines and even if isn't accurate enough to use as an engine mapping software, so whats the point.
Again, very very simplistic, so what could this add to LFS? You say you want it to be precise, yet you talk in terms of an eight year old? It doesn't convince me I'm afraid!
It would add more complexity, and make it harder for people to get into LFS. Assuming the engine setups are shareable (so as to not disadvantage non-geeks too much) then everyone ends up with exactly the same settings, and it adds NOTHING
Like you?
You obviously like Turbos but have little clue how they work, and how turbos are selected and configured to work with an engine, nor how an engine is configured to work optimally with a turbo of differing size. The boy racer idea that bolting on a big turbo and spending half an hour on a rolling road is foolish and idiotic - real life, especially racing of any professional level, is not like that at all! Do you really want to spend 2 weeks, eight hours a day on a virtual dyno to gain yourself 0.05 seconds over the competition, only to have it wiped out when you share it? And thats working on the incorrect assumption that LFS could or will ever be accurate enough to benefit from this. If it isn't (and it isn't) then what is the point, other than to satisfy the max power bridage?
Quite clearly from what you've written it wouldn't do anything of the sort. Most people would JUST stick a big turbo on it, realise it didn't work, and download a better engine setup from Inferno (or wherever). It will add nothing but about 16 years to LFS's development period.
Done and dusted. Hopefully you'll engage brain and read 'My First Illustrated Guide to Engines' before posting stuff like this again.
Hummer: Half way through my reply I realised that the 1k was a poor reference to the rpm increments the engine is mapped at. Why such an esteemed and knowledgable engine tuner such as 'leet-metallica' didn't add this info is unknown, but I'd blame drugs or an excess of Sunny Delight.
It might seem that some of the replies you've received are a tad harsh, 1337-allica, but you've been a member since 2003 so I think most people would assume you'd do a search to see if this has been mentioned in the last three years (and of course it has, more times than I care to count). It really pays to do some research (both on the forum as well as into your chosen topic), if for no other reason that it keeps people from having a shot at you
Inhaling it is by far the best thing you can do with that stuff.
To the original poster, sorry your idea has not been well received. As Maggot points out, it's to your credit that at least you made an argument for what you wanted. I think the main problem is that we're sceptical about whether the simulation you are imagining would in fact be much fun to play. Once everybody is using the A+++ turbo, then we're all on an even playing field again so we might as well all have the standard turbo. Plus, as Tristan points out there are problems with realistically implementing the stuff you're talking about.
But don't be discouraged: I suggest starting a thread about drifting, weather, or the crappy AI.
although some of u don't see what it can add, i can think of a few off the top of my head
1.Problem with the GTR is completly solves
2.it opens the game up to alot of people. and Americans who are into that sorta stuff.
3.LX8 That everyone wants so bad can be made.
4.Real Time backfires
Edit5.More realistic Responding Engines
Edit6.more realistic sound.
Edit7.Realistic Engine Damage
No one is asking for Stage 1 cams, where each stage is clearly better than the last. we are asking to be able to specifiy each parts specs and have the consiquent response to such a change. there many different ways u could Spec and engine and its setup. saying there is one optimal setup is stupid.
The manner in which such a system is implemented thats still up for debate.
the horse is kinda beaten but there has been no one who fights for the other side.
I reckon the GTR thing (disparity, inequality, totally unfair domination by the Z, whatever ), if it's looked at all, will most likely be addressed by the devs evening the cars up a bit in a future patch, not by making it possible for people to tweak them. That's what the crystal ball on my rear vision mirror says anyway
It's not just Americans who like tuning cars, afaik While I agree that tuning options would bring some new users to LFS, it most likely would cause an equal or greater number of people to stop playing (or play a lot less), especially if they find themselves "out-tuned" by people who know what they're doing. Part of LFS's appeal (and the appeal of just about every car-based game known to humanity) is that you can just race a car and not need to know anything too technical. I know you can "tune" in Gran Turismo and NFS but that's really nothing more than buying bits, sticking them on and going a bit faster. No actual involvement required.
As for point 3: "LX8 That everyone wants so bad can be made." How does adding tuning options allow a new car to be added? Doesn't make sense to me but I might be missing something
Real time backfires would be good but again, they wouldn't necessarily be made possible by adding tuning options.
Finally, what's a "Stage 1" cam? Smells like GT...
assuming u could take a LX4/6 Chasis and put a V8 in it and spec it too what u want.
i said before i don't think everyone would be lost. it would not be more complicated that current suspension setups.
The current suspension setups arent teachnical?. if i love racing and have no clue about gear ratios arent i at a disadvantage if i play LFS.
When i mentioned stage 1 cam i was saying that we are not asking for preset upgradeble parts where stage 1 might be 270Duration@12Mm lift or something like that.
small point
Gran turismo Engine upgrades arent unlrealistic. i can actually go out and buy stage X cams,turbo kits. from some manufacturer.
and this is where i would like to see the ultimate difference in LFS and Gran turismo. IN GT u have preset parts, i rather have the ability to say u know i want a turbo that spool a bit quicker, so i edit the turbo by changing the A/r ratio now i have turbo that spool quicker but less of a top end.
Why do people think that u can only be "out-Tunned" by an engine. u could have the best engine in the world and its crippled by a crap suspension. the the current setup controls so many parts of the car from traction to corner speed to topspeed and acceleration. that i am amazed that people think there mainly for "Driving Style"
ultimately i would love to see multiple classes inside of classes. GT400 GT500. Where 500 is maximum of 500hp etc. This would be good for league races because u could whipe the playing field free each season by changing the restrictions and having a fresh race each season. for pickup races there isnt nothing good unless LFS had 10,000 people playing on a regular basis. so it could support such diversity. i think this is the sorta depth the original poster was talking about.
No, because you can download track-specific world record setups just like thousands of others do Having said that, I know guys who are very quick who just use basic setups like Bob Smith's "easy" range (which I like a lot). As a casual pickup racer, basic sets suit me fine and I don't have to adjust them much at all to be competitive. If I had to concern myself with all the intricacies of setting up my engine to maximise its performance I might not play much at all.
Whether LFS tuning would be GT-style (stupidly simple and ultimately pointless as everyone would have to have all the upgrades or just lose races all the time) or ultra-realistic to the point of putting people off, I don't think anyone can convince me that it will improve the LFS experience, and if you can convince the devs (who are the ones who matter here, as all this extra work would have to de done by them - or by Scawen in particular) then I'll be really impressed
But I have deja vu, both from reading this thread and from responding to it, so I'll leave it at that I think
Why can't it be the same for the engine. Download Track specific WR engine setups. i suppose if i wanted to be a idiot about it i could go on to say "If its a sim then who gears about pickup racing when realism is the goal. Pickup racing is arcady and all that" but am not and i understand u have to cut that realism BS somewhere. But the prospects of being able to change the engine far outweigh the value of pickup racing in my mind.
It dosent have to be Realistic to the point where it turns people off. Ultra realistic would be impossible
All right. That's the last straw. I'm changing my damned flag to something neutral.
Lumping two states together is almost as bad as throwing the British in with the French. All 50: Arabs and Jews.
There's enough intercity disassociation and disgust here in California alone (even excluding intracity hate and rivalry in LA) for an entire continent. The only thing that unites us is a bunch of papers plebeians never read.*
)
but again, they wouldn't necessarily be made possible by adding tuning options.