Meh, i use UFR its 1st and if you want i can do screen for evry car for you coz you dont know how to do it properly 
(edge3147)
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You are right, i failed to hit print screen on the right hand picture. Shit happens.
I dont cry i just say the truth : D, your screen shoots are sh*t coz on evry ur screen driver is on left site, you cant do simple thing like change driver from left 2 right.
(edge3147)
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(Intrex1020)
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(edge3147)
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Okay guys, we understand you've aquired a distaste for one another. All off topic discussion has been removed. Right and left side drivers change the speed in which a vehicles turns in different directions at the least and that was all that was needed to be understood.
Keep it on topic guys and don't take shots at each other unless you're going after the fact that they provide. We will not allow personal attacks within this topic
Keep it on topic guys and don't take shots at each other unless you're going after the fact that they provide. We will not allow personal attacks within this topic
Dont delete it pls.
Here you are guys evry car RHS and LHS
(ok no UF1 
)
https://www.dropbox.com/lightbox/home/Public/Cars
Here you are guys evry car RHS and LHS
(ok no UF1 )https://www.dropbox.com/lightbox/home/Public/Cars
Bad idea Niki, I don't see why this should be something that is restricted. I change my driver position all the time, but in the TBO class it doesn't have a noticeable effect. Maybe in the UF1, sure, it has a huge effect but these TBO's are pretty heavy so not much use.
None the less its still a stupid thing to try and stop people doing, if its going to get this intense where your going to try and stop anybody having a tiny advantage we might as well use fixed setups as well (sarcasm for the last part)
None the less its still a stupid thing to try and stop people doing, if its going to get this intense where your going to try and stop anybody having a tiny advantage we might as well use fixed setups as well
(sarcasm for the last part)Guis plz dont make me lol more. Srsly no such rule is needed... Niki plz
Well of course Joe disagrees without even explaining the reasons why the idea is bad. He's never been that big on realism, so it's understandable. Perhaps we should fix cockpit view as well, like we had back in the days, after-all it's realism that we're enjoying the most here, together with good racing. 
I would enjoy putting on a force cock-pit view league, but it would greatly reduce the number of competitors I beleive, so I don't mess with it. Like I said, I'll look into the static driver positions, but as I also said, it might be more trouble than it's worth..
Greatly appreciated Cornys. The reason why I haven't made suggestion about forced cockpit view is the same you just mentioned. And then it's not in that much of a trouble to have static driver position as dynamic one is rarely used by only few people anyway.
I've just reread Joe's post and I can see he has mentioned some reason, however it's not very true what he said about it.
The bigger the weight, the bigger the power, the bigger the effect of everything is generally how it goes. You'll notice as the car gets faster its actually more sensitive to setup changes (and most changes control how mass behaves through the car).
Let me explain why we mostly see driver sides used in UF1. It's the competition that gets the field so dense and then there is time to be found with the drivers sitting position. Now, because UF1 is extremely light this indeed is little bit bigger than in TBO, but still this doesn't mean that if in TBO it wasn't so very used so far and it indeed brings less of an advantage than in UF1 it wouldn't still bring any advantage. Of course, it would. A tenth or a two is enough for it to be an advantage and a tenth is massive when you scrabble for hundredths of a second per lap time.
Then take a look at just general public racing. Noone even bothers swapping drivers position, people just race on the side of a car they prefer because it's just natural for them. But, there always has to be few of the smart ones to stand out and try to gain any advantage they can, no matter how. If this was generally acceptable, then button clutching wouldn't be a problem either.
So, I encourage you to take a look at all sides Cornys before making a decision.
I've just reread Joe's post and I can see he has mentioned some reason, however it's not very true what he said about it.
The bigger the weight, the bigger the power, the bigger the effect of everything is generally how it goes. You'll notice as the car gets faster its actually more sensitive to setup changes (and most changes control how mass behaves through the car).
Let me explain why we mostly see driver sides used in UF1. It's the competition that gets the field so dense and then there is time to be found with the drivers sitting position. Now, because UF1 is extremely light this indeed is little bit bigger than in TBO, but still this doesn't mean that if in TBO it wasn't so very used so far and it indeed brings less of an advantage than in UF1 it wouldn't still bring any advantage. Of course, it would. A tenth or a two is enough for it to be an advantage and a tenth is massive when you scrabble for hundredths of a second per lap time.
Then take a look at just general public racing. Noone even bothers swapping drivers position, people just race on the side of a car they prefer because it's just natural for them. But, there always has to be few of the smart ones to stand out and try to gain any advantage they can, no matter how. If this was generally acceptable, then button clutching wouldn't be a problem either.
So, I encourage you to take a look at all sides Cornys before making a decision.
nit picking ?
just get on and drive
just get on and drive
Niki, if the sim was about realism there would be only a fixed cockpit view, lets be right, its not about that.
Think of the plus sides, now when people beat you, you can still blame it on the driver position/view like normal, if they fixed it, you would have no excuses
But seriously, no.
EDIT: Just seen your post niki. In UF1 driver sides can be worth up to .4 ive found, on tracks such as FE1 etc. In TBO ive never seen such an advantage your speaking of, infact .1 would be the absolute maximum IMO. The cars are just so heavy that its no real gain, and left be right, the tracks we are going to run on will be longer tracks, with a mix of left/right turns which would balance out any of this 'advantage' your speaking of. The main way the driver side works is on tracks where there is far more of one particular direction of turn, like FE1, SO1... But then you can look at tracks such as BL1, you would think driver on right would be faster but its not, even with the STD cars left side is just as fast. Its all just in your head/over exaggerated slightly :P
Think of the plus sides, now when people beat you, you can still blame it on the driver position/view like normal, if they fixed it, you would have no excuses
But seriously, no.
EDIT: Just seen your post niki. In UF1 driver sides can be worth up to .4 ive found, on tracks such as FE1 etc. In TBO ive never seen such an advantage your speaking of, infact .1 would be the absolute maximum IMO. The cars are just so heavy that its no real gain, and left be right, the tracks we are going to run on will be longer tracks, with a mix of left/right turns which would balance out any of this 'advantage' your speaking of. The main way the driver side works is on tracks where there is far more of one particular direction of turn, like FE1, SO1... But then you can look at tracks such as BL1, you would think driver on right would be faster but its not, even with the STD cars left side is just as fast. Its all just in your head/over exaggerated slightly :P
I'd love to see a FCV fixed setup race in a road car 
If it is how you say it is Joe, then you have no problem with static driver position through the season. And I would love to fight you left vs right hand side, ha. :P
The most of us actually enjoy exactly this sim for its realism. The rest has various different reasons. And realism is not the only reason why I enjoy it, it's amongst the top if not the top reason. If you can't understand this, then this is probably why you're constantly in conflict with so many things.
Ok. But he isn't really batteling for the championship then is he? And the schedule is already made in a way to make this impossible.
I agree with this.
The most of us actually enjoy exactly this sim for its realism. The rest has various different reasons. And realism is not the only reason why I enjoy it, it's amongst the top if not the top reason. If you can't understand this, then this is probably why you're constantly in conflict with so many things.
Ok. But he isn't really batteling for the championship then is he? And the schedule is already made in a way to make this impossible.
I agree with this.
I might take you up on that then Niki
And sure I understand you like the realism, but surely the driver side isn't one of the factors that would ruin that, take BTCC, some use left side, other right. As far as im aware there is nothing stopping them changing between races :P
And sure I understand you like the realism, but surely the driver side isn't one of the factors that would ruin that, take BTCC, some use left side, other right. As far as im aware there is nothing stopping them changing between races :P
BTCC wreckzor style racing might ruin it more, yes. :juggle:
So, I received an e-mail about some racist comment in this thread. In this e-mail I am asked to respond to this racist comment in this thread.
A. I don't see an insult here (deleted by Cornys?)
B. What is going on and what should . could I do?
A. I don't see an insult here (deleted by Cornys?)
B. What is going on and what should . could I do?
I've taken care of it already Speedy
Thanks though 
Allow passing on race start before the S/F line.
Single file restarts.
On a normal, standing, race start passing is allowed before start/finish, as well in all other LFS series and in real life when Rolling starts are used. It's unnatural for drivers to hold their position with cars left or right and in front and behind. Once the green flag is dropped the instinct is to get the best out of it.
Race restarts are different and since single file is then used it's absolutely normal for leader to set pace and have overtaking allowed only after s/f is crossed since the yellow flag period was there because of someones misfortune, all the gaps had been closed so it's only normal to prevent people getting a jump in this situation. But on race starts it's a clean ground for everyone and these two should be distincted.
In rules I don't see passing forbidden before s/f on race start on rolling start, but there is a picture showing double file and passing being illegal, so it's a bit contradictory. Maybe it's because you've been using double file on race restarts so far, if so, then single file should be in place for race restarts.
Maybe you don't want to follow the rest of the world in this two areas, but those rules are commonly used everywhere because they work the best and also those rules are the most fair. Though, maybe nascar racing uses different rules, this series (World TBO Championship) is not oval racing and it would be hugely welcome if you would use circuit racing rules for this two situations.
Single file restarts.
On a normal, standing, race start passing is allowed before start/finish, as well in all other LFS series and in real life when Rolling starts are used. It's unnatural for drivers to hold their position with cars left or right and in front and behind. Once the green flag is dropped the instinct is to get the best out of it.
Race restarts are different and since single file is then used it's absolutely normal for leader to set pace and have overtaking allowed only after s/f is crossed since the yellow flag period was there because of someones misfortune, all the gaps had been closed so it's only normal to prevent people getting a jump in this situation. But on race starts it's a clean ground for everyone and these two should be distincted.
In rules I don't see passing forbidden before s/f on race start on rolling start, but there is a picture showing double file and passing being illegal, so it's a bit contradictory. Maybe it's because you've been using double file on race restarts so far, if so, then single file should be in place for race restarts.
Maybe you don't want to follow the rest of the world in this two areas, but those rules are commonly used everywhere because they work the best and also those rules are the most fair. Though, maybe nascar racing uses different rules, this series (World TBO Championship) is not oval racing and it would be hugely welcome if you would use circuit racing rules for this two situations.
All of section 3.9 is stated to govern rolling starts in 2.2.4 in the Realistic NASCAR Rulebook. Figure 9 is an example of these rules. A driver is legal as long as they remain behind the people who started in front of them in line unless they are off of the pace for some reason.
Niki, you are right on the regard of disallowing passing on a restart. It's unfair to allow pre-start/finish line passing in single file or double file restarts. Pressing the gas slightly before the green flag and overtaking drivers due to guessing the time that the green will come out will not be an advantage in this series. That would be called drag racing, but I'd rather than not be an advantage on a start or restart.
Starting position is earned just as much as running position is for a restart, and, as such, passing will be disallowed prior to the start/finish line no matter how we start the race (single or double file, it's currently double file unless overwhelming support says we should start or restart single file). If you think single file would be better, speak up now and we may use it. If you like double file, you also may say that. I will listen to what a number of competitors have to say, they just have to say it. I'm presenting the reason that the rules are as they are now and with the proper support these rules could be changed.
The way it is now all of the position changing action will occur once the race has begun it's first lap and people will all get a fair chance to start the race in the position that they earned in qualifying. It's a simple rule and it's one that makes sence. The leader starts the race and second place follows the leader's key, so the grid should be off-set such as it would be on a standing start which is common to LFS only this will be at a higher speed and without the chance of a car stalling on the grid and causing a disaster and a restart.
It isn't what everybody is used to, but it's more exciting and it's just as fair as any other method that is employed in LFS as long as everybody knows the rules and follows them. Also, these rules are simple to enforce and we can show drivers exactly what they did wrong should they do it wrong. Hopefully, these rules will keep large first lap crashes out of the picture by keeping drivers from getting 3 and 4 wide before even getting to the braking point of the first turn on tracks like South City where there's nowhere to hide from mayhem.
That sounds pretty clear to me now. Thanks for explaining.
Not a problem Niki
. I'll explain it in the driver's meeting to everybody else to make sure the rules are clear for everybody . I'm looking at making a video for the driver's meeting since we won't have all of the competitors on TS Seems like there is a practise server going on, but without airio.. would be nice to have it in there
Could someone put car-reset on ?
WTBOCS - Suggestion Thread
(92 posts, started )
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