i hate Hackers/Cheaters :arge:

This are good News and i hope the Hackers get done...

Quote from Scawen :

I'm working quite long hours most days right now, crossing those things off my list. Only trouble is, I keep adding new ones.

Did I understand correctly? Live for Speed isn't your full time job now and you have another one?

Do not respond if you don't have time .

I think he meant that he's working long hours on LFS.

Not really a good base but that is what a lot of coders do. Either you are burned out like the previous months or completely in 'the rush'. Finding a balance between those two is healthier (but difficult).

Messages from the kids in the back of the car "are we there yet? arree wweee thherreee yeett?" isn't really motivating... More like demotivating. Nice word; counterproductive.

Quote from Sobis :

Did I understand correctly? Live for Speed isn't your full time job now and you have another one?

Err no, I'm just working long-ish days at the moment. Not crazy ones, but more than a normal job. But for example I worked a bit less than that on Sunday.

I don't know why it is quite a frequent occurrence on this forum that someone supposes that we are employed somewhere else and do LFS as a hobby in our free time. I really can't think of a better way to make a living than to continue on this. It's a good way to work and It's not finished yet anyway.

I might as well let you know, I am not worried about the comments made by forum members when I'm back to work on the tyres or other things. It doesn't worry me, all that moaning and groaning. If people want to suffer, that's ok and it's their problem, not mine. Nothing I could do to stop that really. Even releasing a version of S3 wouldn't stop the moaners, three months later they'd be back saying the devs may be dead, or the devs now live beside a beach or the devs have taken up employment elsewhere.

That is old and boring. What I do is just get on with what I want to, not really reading the forum at those times. When I do pop by and see posts about the death of LFS, I just ignore them. I don't even sigh. It's like seeing a pothole in the road when I'm driving. I don't want it there, but I can just swerve around it and don't think twice.

with all the work you have put in since this hacker came to your attention is a testement that lfs isnt dead,otherwise you wouldnt have even been bothered about that.

anyway good work scawen,all the best to you and thanks for a great sim

Wise words of a wise man.

Scawen, did you start to learn Leo some programing? (so he can continue bussines)

It's a nicely put answer, but it raises a problem:

Some time (years...) ago, here on the forum there were ideas, knowledge, and exchange.
Now it feels like it's a cat chasing its tail, going round and round lap after lap.
Knowledgeable sources are gone (or gone silent, because of the ambient noise?).

Did LFS grow too much so that the original userbase (aka fanbois) is extinct / drowned in spam?
Did you, Scawen, or the other devs find out that you do not need ideas or input from outside any more, because you are old enough to know what you are doing, and because the problems you now face are too complex to share?

I appreciate reading from you and Victor from time to time, and love the test patches times but it seems that this forum is not like we are invited for a drink and chat in your house any more - it seems that it does not belong to the dev team any more, and lives a life on its own.

Maybe I'm getting older as well... thanks for the news and for LFS as it is, and please keep us posted about tyres as well!

Quote from Scawen :

When I do pop by and see posts about the death of LFS, I just ignore them. I don't even sigh. .

But Scawen, you must also realize that people will question that this project lives, when we face an almost 4 year delay of the VW.. that´s FOUR years.

I don´t think even Blizzard, and they take their time, would hold an update, a new feature for an ongoing project, back for FOUR years.

And with frontpage news that is updated twice a year (and here I am actually being nice...) then please don´t patronise people who thinks this project is never going to get to third base.

I am not saying I dont believe it will - I don´t care really. I like the S2 as it is now, and enjoy it often. But when you keep saying to people - hey there will be a new car - and they delay it for four years - and counting..., then you will piss a lot of people off - naturally.

Its like those guys over at RFactor, who were making a mod, a fantastic mod called Prototype... something, cannot even remember the name anymore, but they went to 70 pct development, and then it has been like that for also about 3-4 years... with a biannual post saying that its very much alive.

But for myself, as I said, I love LFS, and of course I hope for more features in the future, but if not, then hey, its a great sim.

I hope this post does not sound like a pissed off whining one... its not the intention at all.

Kind regards

Ole Andreasen
Denmark

I say, Close this thread and waith till the patch subforum is open with the new test pach

Have this thread open is gona delay more and more the test patch and increase the whining kids...

Quote from Mille Sabords :

Some time (years...) ago, here on the forum there were ideas, knowledge, and exchange.
Now it feels like it's a cat chasing its tail, going round and round lap after lap.
Knowledgeable sources are gone (or gone silent, because of the ambient noise?).

Did LFS grow too much so that the original userbase (aka fanbois) is extinct / drowned in spam?
Did you, Scawen, or the other devs find out that you do not need ideas or input from outside any more, because you are old enough to know what you are doing, and because the problems you now face are too complex to share?

I don't think all the knowledgable people are gone for ever. Some are definitely still around and some are doing other things. I'm sure others, who haven't been around for a while, will take an interest when the new tyre physics is released.

I definitely do need ideas and input, I like working with the community. But I really couldn't gain anything from the forum for the core part of tyre physics development. When the core is done and it's feeling pretty good, there will be some balancing and heavy testing and comparisons with reality that the community will be able to help with, a lot of testing, discussion and refinement I'm sure.

Quote from deadzone :

But Scawen, you must also realize that people will question that this project lives, when we face an almost 4 year delay of the VW.. that´s FOUR years.

I don´t think even Blizzard, and they take their time, would hold an update, a new feature for an ongoing project, back for FOUR years.

And with frontpage news that is updated twice a year (and here I am actually being nice...) then please don´t patronise people who thinks this project is never going to get to third base.

I am not saying I dont believe it will - I don´t care really. I like the S2 as it is now, and enjoy it often. But when you keep saying to people - hey there will be a new car - and they delay it for four years - and counting..., then you will piss a lot of people off - naturally.

Sure, naturally... and we have. That's true.

We've made mistakes, that's true too. It's not how it should be and that's unfortunate. Mostly to do with having plans then later discovering that the plans could not be realised.

The ongoing problem is we've explained quite a few times, but it's hard for some people to understand or believe what we say. But there isn't really any more to be said!

The Scirocco was something we tried to make as real as possible. But in doing so, it demonstrated flaws in the tyre physics. And after some time I embarked on a journey with more obstacles than I could have imagined at the start! The aim of that journey - to produce a tyre physics model based on realistic considerations.

It was promising and had a good feel, but reacted badly is some situations. The fix for that was even more promising! But some aspects of tyre physics were simply not demonstrated by the model, so I worked for a long time trying to figure out why. I took many wrong turns in that process.

It's really not easy, but I know that the end will be better, in physical accuracy and driving feeling, than what we have now and it's worth getting it right. No point releasing the Scirocco with the old physics, when we know it will feel wrong.

So after all that, I can understand why people are angry. But I think there is enough information for them to understand. So if they are still angry, then so be it, there's nothing I can do. That's why all I can do is ignore the ongoing anger. You could say that for the mistake of announcing a VW and Rockingham when we weren't absolutely ready, we've have enough of a "punishment" by now. But I'm hardened to that now so those words can just pass me by, leaving me unaffected. I've got better things to think about than what a bad guy I am for making a couple of wrong announcements four years ago.

But I'll soon be back on that tyre physics with some new ideas and see if it can get to the end without going off track too many more times. That end can't be perfection but just a reasonable approximation for our purposes. So the driving feels great, heat and wear are close enough and setup changes do all the right things. That's what I want to get to, and it will open the door to the future of LFS.

Quote from Scawen :

But I'll soon be back on that tyre physics with some new ideas and see if it can get to the end without going off track too many more times. That end can't be perfection but just a reasonable approximation for our purposes. So the driving feels great, heat and wear are close enough and setup changes do all the right things. That's what I want to get to, and it will open the door to the future of LFS.

Scawen, check mail.(hackers...)

Quote from Scawen :

But I'll soon be back on that tyre physics with some new ideas and see if it can get to the end without going off track too many more times. That end can't be perfection but just a reasonable approximation for our purposes. So the driving feels great, heat and wear are close enough and setup changes do all the right things. That's what I want to get to, and it will open the door to the future of LFS.

these are the words that convince me that it is worth the wait ...

Its off-topic, but something that i was thinking for a long time:

In the progress reports, i noticed every time you said about the tires, you said that was doing a tire model.
Since the tires in LFS are the same for all cars, obviously the tires that you are doing are for all cars...

But, if we see on real cars, each type of car have a completely different structure, different compounds, different grip and different strength... (Indycar tires can do 500 miles on Indianapolis banked corners, but F1 failed to do just some laps safely at 2005, for example)

Now, the real question, may the problem what makes the tire models so complicated to put on LFS be that you are doing a single "perfect" tire, that for all cars?
Also, if you make different tire models for each car, wouldn't make the code simpler?


I don't understand programming or etc, so this is just guessing

Quote from Si Mclaren :

Now, the real question, may the problem what makes the tire models so complicated to put on LFS be that you are doing a single "perfect" tire, that for all cars?
Also, if you make different tire models for each car, wouldn't make the code simpler?

I'm guessing he's working on a unified tyre model for all the cars, which I believe is the case for the current physics in the game. But the differences in tyre structure you mentioned could very well be parameters for the unified model. It does makes the model incredibly complex, but it has some obvious advantages.
With such a tyre model, there won't be any complex tyre model programming involved in developing new cars for the game. More time can be spent developing the car and fine tuning it, rather than developing physics. Another advantage is improvements made to the single model affects all cars and tyres. If you have multiple separate models, it quickly becomes very time consuming maintaining all the different models.

I think many of those complaining about the new model taking too long have little or no programming experience with complicated problems. The complexity of the mathematics is probably far beyond comprehension for most of us. It is one thing to solve the mathematics involved, but a whole another problem to make the solution efficient enough to run in real time, at the same time precise enough to be realistic.

But I have the impression that the current tyre physics isn't something Scawen really have put all his effort into. Yet, it still stands out, even from more recent sims with siginificantly larger development teams. But with all the time and effort he has put into the new physics, I'm pretty sure it will set a new benchmark for racing simulators for years to come.

Quote from Skagen :

But I have the impression that the current tyre physics isn't something Scawen really have put all his effort into.

Well, I have the same impression; I tried the old demos via the site and some things were better than the current physics.
Cars now feel too light, there is no feeling of the tires scratching against the asphalt, no heavy leaning at 140kph steering etc. Wiggling the steering wheel on a straight with an XFG shows exactly this, it gives a boat-ish impression. I am not saying physics were better overall back then, but had some strong points.

Dunno, seems the current physics are too polished/not raw/smooth/forgiving, of course relatively to the standards of LFS (they are probably still the best out there).

Dont listen to all those ungreatfull idiots Scawen & co. ... You have made a car sim that IMO are far better in physics and feel, than most of the big game producers ever could do. One thing I would like to see in LFS, was a big city for us cruisers. A sort of pre-made cruise track.

The feel of driving with a wheel in lfs, and specially G27 is damn awsome.

KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK!

Just take your time, we will be waiting.

Who need´s that damn New Tyrephysic....
LFS is the best Sim.,even without that newTyremodel/Physic or whatever Scawen works on.

Mid of 2008,the Scirocco drivable at the Gamesconvention..and now over 4 Years,he´s still "Missing".....

And after "Waiting" now for over 4 Years of the VW,i must read from Newbies we are ungreatful idiots....:doh:.

You are an ungrateful idiot, happy?

Comon, everybody must've read what Scawen had to say (for the 5th consecutive time) about his reasons on not releasing the VWS. If you still feel like complaining, after he took the time on explaining it all over again, then you probably never get it. Yes nobody is happy it is taking so long, yes everybody wants content sooner rather then later but that doesn't mean one needs to put his brain in a comatose state when it comes to understanding about the reasons why it isn't happening, that doesn't mean you need to agree with them or even like them, it means it isn't happening right now and nothing you say will change that fact.

Great, and I was beginning to despair ...
I wait with impatience.

Sry for my bad english.

Who was stupid enough to bring up the Scirocco discussion anyway? Do some math!

Rockingham has seven (+R) combinations x20 cars => 280 combos
A new car gives => 44 new combos (rally en RO excluded).

--
Way too much focus on cars anyway. The time I wanted to buy S2 I was thinking .. "Hmm not many tracks is it?" .. Not.. "Hmm not much car choice".

Dear Scawen, problem with hotlapping on FE6 still not decided. http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=80032
Watch WR's - all of them set with cutting T1.

Also watch this. I and Audi TT noticed one bug. http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=1730995#post1730995
Texture should be changed.

Sorry i forgot to tell it earlier. Thanks for responce

Dear LFS racers,

PLEASE STOP SPAMMING AND FLOODING IN THIS THREAD. DON'T WASTE SCAWEN'S TIME!!!!!!!!!