It would be nice to have different set of options for each type of force feedback effect just like in other games because in LFS you can only feel things when FF is very strong but the wheel is also too strong so it's not good for me plus I don't feel the dirt road in rally except when I touch the grass.

Something like:

General Wheel Strength 0%--------100%

Surface vibration effect (grass, dirt,the blue and white thingie on the corners, etc) 0%--------100%

Other Effects like gear changing, damaged engine, damaged wheel and other small effects 0%--------100%

And maybe add 4 buttons on those settings so you can choose predefined settings like Light Medium Strong and Custom

You could add more if you remember more effects. It's very simple to do I think and it'll add a lot to the game.


So what do you guys think?

Well....in LFS FF simulates the actions of the front wheel, like you would feel in real life. Its imbossible to feel damaged engine or gear changing trought front wheels. So no...these fake effect wont be included. Or neither bars to control these...

Maybe something like this (knowing what LFS actually simulates)

Spring strenght 0------100%
Others 0--------100%

That way we could adjust the strenght of the spring independantly and have the wheel not hard to turn while still keeping the curbs and other forces FFB strong.

Ah yeah and I agree with the suggestion.

I do too think it would be cool.

Its been discussed many times that LFS only simulates what the front wheels do and its for realism/simulation purposes. But I think it would be nice to feel some of the other effects more closely. As the steering is the only source of force feedback for most racers with FFB devices then it would be ncie to be able to set it up so you can feel some of these effects better.

Having it customisable in such a way means the game would be able to satisfy both sides of the camp, no matter where you pitch your tent.

Ok I believe there is some misunderstanding in here (again).
LFS simulates the front wheel forces and send them to the FFB wheel. However, a FFB wheel being a FFB wheel, it does in theory still have a return-to-center tension and a FFB level. LFS uses those for the user to feel the forces.
What LFS doesn't use is (as shown on the picture), the "sample forces" or such things, which are pre-defined (canned) effects that will always do the same thing in case of a given event (i.e. fishtail or X surface will always give the same exact effect). You just don't have the choice to use the FFB and the tension tho since a FFB wheel is what it is.

Now what I understand of the original suggestion from BLooDMaN is the following:
Could we have 2 sliders ingame to adjust the FFB?
- 1 for the force feedback level
- 1 for the return-to-center tension

ummm...we got keys to adjust the feedback, the , and . (dot and column?)

Id like to be able to feel the cars understeer maybe simulate the wheel hopping effect it does at high speeds also. And the feel of the road would be nice also, and please get rid of that crazy left to right wheel shake!! no car does that just parked.. but in LFS it does, grr face.

Quote from Nick_ll :

However, a FFB wheel being a FFB wheel, it does in theory still have a return-to-center tension and a FFB level.

Return-to-center tension? There obviously isn't any because if you're not moving you can put the wheel in any position and it will stay there. Unless you've not turned off some of the silly driver effects.

Quote from Bob Smith :

Return-to-center tension? There obviously isn't any because if you're not moving you can put the wheel in any position and it will stay there.

no it wont it will start to swing violently from side to side with inceasing amplitude

Quote from Shotglass :

no it wont it will start to swing violently from side to side with inceasing amplitude

Well, it doesn't for me. At speed it just returns to center (assuming you didn't put much lock on), and when you're stopped it will just sit there.

So, it must be your settings. Also stiffer sets make the FFB issue worse, and I like mine softish.

it depends a lot on what wheel you use and how strong the ff-motor of that wheel is
with the old logitech ffgp it wasnt half as bad as it is with my new way stronger dfp
braking while standing still is a very easy way to get that weird bug ... you can even control the amplitude with your brakepedal

so either you have a very weak ff-wheel or you run with near to 0° caster ... or something completely different i cant think of atm

I have a momo wheel, have used the DFP as well and found no problems there either. DFP was at 100% strength ingame, momo is at 50%. All driver settings are at 0% (except from overall force). I run enough front camber to give good tyre heating, caster (where changable) is at max. Setups are not particularly stiff and never run loads of front anti-roll bar.

I can't think of anything else that would affect the steering.

Oh yeah and the brake pedal affecting FFB is completely screwed up. I really hope the next patch gets rid of that. Since we are just getting the horizontal front wheel forces (summed) it points to something that is wrong in the physics (rather than FFB code). Though obviously that's just an assumption, I've not seen the code.

Quote from Bob Smith :

Oh yeah and the brake pedal affecting FFB is completely screwed up. I really hope the next patch gets rid of that. Since we are just getting the horizontal front wheel forces (summed) it points to something that is wrong in the physics (rather than FFB code). Though obviously that's just an assumption, I've not seen the code.

im not sure but i think its a problem with the immplementation of ff in the game

my guess is that what happens is it tries to simulate a force that resists you trying to turn the wheel but it doenst do it by locking the motor inside your ff wheel but instead by making it push in one direction a little ... at least that explains why it gets worse with wider tyres ...

If your getting oscillation then it's more than likely that your strength settings are too high. I get no oscillation and when I push the brakes whilst standing still the ffb acts as it should.

LFS doesn't need anymore adjustment to the ffb other than strength, first off because of the aforementioned method it uses to generate forces and secondly because you can make adjustments in the control panel for your wheel (well at least logitech models, not sure about others).

I have a DFP and haave the lock set to 720 and comp to 1 so that the lock is correct for all cars. I can drive in a straight line, let go of the wheel and not have this issue.

I get the feeling this is a problem more with short lock wheels than for DFP users.

I get very strong oscillations with my DFP so it's not just a standard wheel thing. If I let go of the wheel when sitting still or driving in a straight line it will start to oscillate on its own about 20 degrees left and right of centre.
I can reduce the problem by turning down the force level in LFS, but I like the force at 100.
I've tried setting the damper strength to 150 in the profiler but that made no difference whatsoever.
It's a simple control loop instability caused by having the gain of the loop too high (hence turning the force down removes the problem). Should be very easy to solve using damping but my damping settings don't seem to work! A more elegant solution could probably be added to the FFB code in LFS by adding proportional control but I'm not a programmer so I don't know if that's feasible.

I see now, well I bought the wheel JUST for LFS but it didn't felt right so maybe FFB wasn't that great but when I tried other games including arcade ones I was impressed with the effects but in LFS I had to use the force at 150% just to feel something and even then sometimes I couldn't feel the grass or the blue and white thingies in the corners, sometimes I felt it for 1/2 sec but then nothing happened. I will buy S2 soon but I think FFB is an issue and it must be worked out because there are other games that have a great FFB feeling even if it's not "simulated" and makes the game much more enjoyable.

I guess i was a little upset because the wheel was quite expensive, I live in Argentina and things are expensive around here, I paid 100 dollars for it USED and here we have 3 - 1 peso/dollar parity so i had to get 300 pesos which is a lot of money here

I hope it will get fixed/improved

Quote from BLooDMaN :

I see now, well I bought the wheel JUST for LFS but it didn't felt right so maybe FFB wasn't that great but when I tried other games including arcade ones I was impressed with the effects but in LFS I had to use the force at 150% just to feel something and even then sometimes I couldn't feel the grass or the blue and white thingies in the corners, sometimes I felt it for 1/2 sec but then nothing happened. I will buy S2 soon but I think FFB is an issue and it must be worked out because there are other games that have a great FFB feeling even if it's not "simulated" and makes the game much more enjoyable.

I guess i was a little upset because the wheel was quite expensive, I live in Argentina and things are expensive around here, I paid 100 dollars for it USED and here we have 3 - 1 peso/dollar parity so i had to get 300 pesos which is a lot of money here

I hope it will get fixed/improved

The FFB in LFS is very strong. I have to fight the wheel if I have my force over 50% in game.

The other games you talk about do effect and do not simulate the forces you would feel through the steering column. I think the trouble is you are expecting to feel things through the wheel that you simply do not feel through the wheel in real life.

What wheel do you have Bloodman and what are your settings in the windows control panel?

Momo Racing (black) and I have a few different profiles for LFS but now I'm trying this one:

Overal 100%
Spring 0%
Damper 0%
Enable Centering Spring....
Centering Spring 0%

I'm using this based on what I've read on the old RSC forums

Quote from BLooDMaN :

Momo Racing (black):

Overal 100%
Spring 0%
Damper 0%
Enable Centering Spring....
Centering Spring 0%

That's exactly what I use and I've no problem with low FFB levels (50% in game also). Note the strength does vary lots between cars, the cars avaiable in the demo are definately some of the weaker cars. The UF1000 is softest, with either the FO8 or one of GTRs stiffest.

hmm i have left all of those settings on default 100% .... must test what difference they actually make....

The damper effect makes all the FFB mushy and horrible.... get rid of it.

The spring effect I'm not so sure, some people like it, I haven't bothered testing myself (I'm too used to how it is atm).

The spring effect just gives you a centering force, doesn't it? I don't use it as the FF in LFS gives me all the centering force I need.
As I said before, the damping setting has no effect at all for me in LFS (using DFP).

Quote from BLooDMaN :

Momo Racing (black) and I have a few different profiles for LFS but now I'm trying this one:

Overal 100%
Spring 0%
Damper 0%
Enable Centering Spring....
Centering Spring 0%

I'm using this based on what I've read on the old RSC forums

Same gear and settings here. I run at 125% strength in LFS options though, it really is strong force feedback once you turn all the Logitech crap settings to 0. The centering spring especially kills all the cool FFB n LFS. Once you are happy with your basic wheel settings there is nothing to change in my opinion.

If you read the Logitech Wingman forums some "expert" may tell you to use the Logitech settings and may even argue that LFS will be obviously better with these aids enabled. Ignore him.