This is a personal experience, and will not interest you if you are looking for LFS related stuff or the antics of professional motor racing. The account below is mine, and whilst I have tried to be as fair as possible to myself and others my point of view is going to be slightly biased.

Yesterday, Sunday 23rd July 2006, I took part in my first sprint meeting, held at Bentwaters Park, near Ipswich. The track is on an old airfield, and is marked out with cones. The surface is quite dusty, but not too bumpy, and has lots of long straights and a few fast corners. Mostly they are 'slow' chicanes.

Track Layout


The nature of sprint meetings mean that there is very limited track time, but it is nevertheless track time, and something we sorely needed.
Each driver has two practice runs and two timed runs. The practice runs are timed, but do not count towards the results. I shared the car with my brother (and the race suit because his one failed scrutineering!). I am number 97 and he was 797.

On my first run it was all happening very quickly. Plenty of wheelspin at the start as I didn't want to stall and I wasn't worried about losing time at this stage, and a short sprint upto T1, where I'm in 3rd gear. A dab of the brakes before turn in, and follow the multiple apexs caused by the cones. An off camber exit means the car wants to oversteer but it's easily controlled at this speed/gear. Another run to T2, which I think would be flat once I've had a bit more practice, but today I lifted for it quite early. Then a longish run to the first right-left chicane, which is very narrow and quite slow. 2nd gear. A blast up to 4th gear before braking for a left-right-left-left corner, the exit of which is very difficult to see because of the way the cones are layed out, and onto the backstraight. This is the longest straight, and you can easily get into 4th. With proper gearing we could have used 5th here, but we're running what the came with at the moment. Not sure on speeds, as I have to work out what our gearing equates to. A tight chicane, but with a wide exit, followed quite closely by another more open chicane, both 2nd gear (ideally), and onto the finish.

My first run was a 1m46, which I was pleased about. Andrew, my brother, did a 1m54 straight afterwards, so I'm clearly trying harder already. A bit of a chat later, and we have to go out for our second practice run. This time everything feels a bit slower as I'm prepared for the speeds a bit more. I concentrate on hitting lines correctly rather than outright speed, and I brake a lot later this time, snatching an inside front on a couple of occasions, and momentarily lock the rears when I downshift into 2nd a few metres early. Also survived a big oversteer moment (I just about to run out of lock) out of the penultimate chicane.

My time was 1m46, Andrew did a 1m50. Andrew's lap was disallowed as he cut the right hander in the top 'complex' due to missing a coned 'gate'.
A Jedi Mk4 was there (1070cc, 280kg, 160hp sprint/hillclimb car), and the drivers had about 4 years in that car. he was doing 1m30 at this stage, so to be 'only' 10 seconds off with nearly half the power:weight and about 6km of practice was pretty satisfying, but I now wanted to break into the 1m3xs.

An interlude for lunch - this is a chance for me and my Dad to chill out for a bit and chat about the driving.

Next was the first officially timed run. A good start with barely any wheelspin (the startline is very dusty so everyone spun a bit), and a very pleasing first corner where I got on the power MUCH earlier than the other times. Still lifting for T2, as the runway lights on the exit scare me still, and I attack the first chicane, only just making it through with a whiff of understeer. The complex was pretty good, and I got a late apex to power down the back straight. Braked as late as I felt I could (though I still had quite a lot in reserve, but the car was bottoming out under braking), and downshifted into 2nd for the first of the back chicanes. On the power and WOAH, ROUND SHE COMES. I put full lock on, and reduced the throttle, but I wasn't quick enough. As I spun I saw a cone and thought I'd take it out, and that distracted me just enough for me to not dip the clutch soon enough. I stalled. But the cone (and the car) were okay. A failed bump-start later and I was towed back to the pits an ashamed newbie - thank God for tinted privacy visors

Andrew did a 1m46 (a fraction off my first run).

A little bit later I'm out again, and I make a few more mistakes through frustration (and the sweltering heat), and have to duck outside two cones on the deceptive exit of the top complex. Thus my time, a 1m40 despite slowing down to slalom in and out of said cones, was disallowed I felt a 1m37 was on the cards, which would have been an awesome achievement even if it sounds horrendously slow. I think only the Jedi and a 700hp Impreza were quicker than me, although I confess I didn't read EVERY time of EVERY driver.

Andrew was also doing better (he says ), but locked the rears downshifting somewhere near the top of the circuit, and stalled the engine. At the moment we are running a small battery onboard, and it's not sufficient to restart the car. We intend to forgo a small weight penalty and fit a bigger battery to last a meeting (no alternator).
The Jedi eventually got a 1m28, but he does have a faster car and more experience.

Andrew was the only person in our class (Andrew, myself and another car I never even saw!) to set an allowed time in the official runs, so he came home with a 'First in Class' trophy. I was much quicker than him which was satisfying, but made silly mistakes when it counted, so Andrew deserved the trophy and it means we're both happy.

All in all a successful day, and we intend to go to Cadwell on September the 17th for another sprint meeting. Between now and then we have the joyous task of stripping, resetting and rebuliding both front and rear suspension to get a baseline setup (corner weights and pushrod lengths are WAY off for example). I also want another go at making a seat, improving the seatbelts (Andrew is fatter than I [who is lean and mean ]), fitting a bigger battery and making a rear quick-lift jack. Oh, and I'm going to buy Andrew his own race suit cos it was annoying having to swap the suits in very little time in the middle of a paddock

All day long the car ran perfectly. It ironed out most of our minor faults. It coped with being driven by noobs. The clutch is very grabby, so paddock manoeuvering is a bit tricky (it's fine once you have a clear run in front of you, but when your trying to NOT run over people or crash into cars it SO easy to stall). The car is by no means perfect, and I'm sure many of you will see things that need to be repaired, redone or improved. Chances are we know about it, so feel smug to yourselves

Below are some pictures of the event (some of which may be a bit big for modem users, but not massively problematic).

The car, modelled by my Dad
The car, again modelled by Dad Notice I'm wearing a T7R t-shirt, which also has the LFS website on it, so I'm doing my bit for LFS even when having fun elsewhere!
Bad hair, Hot weather, and a l ... are, horrific content>
Driving to the startline
And I'm off!
Probably getting ready for 3rd gear already before T1
Braking for the last chicane
Turning in
Powering out
Back in the Paddock 1
Back in the Paddock 2
Back in the Paddock 3
Andrew 1
Andrew 2
The car cooling down happily, ... (shame about the driving)

Edit: I've tried to think about how to compare LFS's FOX with my F3 car, but it's not as easy as that. Being shaken around and feeling g-forces moving you around the corner, and having to hold your head up, steer without hitting your knees, change gear with barely any room around the lever etc means that it's a LOT more involving. But I'd have to say that LFS isn't far off - just like the FOX the F3 car is very forgiving until you push too hard when it will bite. The real life car seems to want to turn in and stay in a bend much more than the FOX which is much more prone to understeer and slower reactions. On the power I think LFS is about right - easy to hold little power slides but you run out of lock easily if you do silly things. Braking is VERY easy in LFS, and much harder in real life. Just a quick note to say our tyres are Avon Crossplies, and I think LFS is trying to simulate radials, so a direct comparison isn't 100% possible. With more real track time I will be able to give a more convincing comparison, especially as next time will be on a proper track. Here's hoping.

Edit2: More piccies

Me sorting gloves and balaclavas
Wandering off for another job
The car
Fathers pre-race calming words
Getting ready for action
Last minute preparation
Mentally preparing myself
5... 4... 3... 2... 1......
Embarrasing return
Post-spin debrief
Andrew ready for the go (notice the goodlooking battery man)
And he's off (Supporting T7R a bit more obviously)

Video (no sound) : From the start at my first ever go!
Video (no sound) : Good start, but will be ruined by a spin in a minutes time

Good luck with it Tristan,your enthusiasm and excitement for the car comes through in your account of the events.

Seeing the car in a photo makes me realise why you're a fox "specialist"

Nice report. :up:

I wonder if you could enter the car for a normal test day at Snetterton or something. In terms of track time that should be a lot more interesting.

Cool read and pictures, must have been a blast

Nice one...

Looks like fun - Do you find that you can compare your strategies of LFS to driving you did in that (maybe compare to FOX)??

By any chance was the same airfield as that space cadets thing was filmed? That was near Ipswitch.

Very interesting!

I tried searching the forums for "formula 3" but you can imagine I got a ton of results.

Tristan, are there any more threads about your f3 car? Where you got it, work done, future plans etc.?

sounds great tristan! maybe one day i can have a test

Nice FOX...I mean F3!

@spsamsp - I need more practice to make a fair comparison. I did a quickie (ooer) at the end of the post in an edit

@duke-toaster - I think it might have been. There are two 'twinned' airfields next to each other, and it was one of those. Outside the hanger were about 15 Jaguars (the plane, duh) with the wings removed. Too far away to see much more though.

@J.B. - I've inquired about Snetterton, but they don't have a licence to run sprints or people with Non-Race licences. Therefore my brother, my Dad and I would each have to get our ARDS done, and that's not cheap. But I am considering it. In fact most 'tracks' will only let you on 'Test Days' with a race licence, so at the moment we're limited to private airfields and pre-arranged sprint days.

@scurrg - The only other place I've inquired online is on Ten-Tenths' forum in this thread http://www.ten-tenths.com/forum/showthread.php?t=77438
Not a great deal of info to be had there, partly because we don't actually know all the history of this car (we THINK it was Rickard Rydell's car and it might have been racing in Sweden after it's offical F3 years), and partly because I can't be bothered to type it all in when no one else really needs to know. In time I might make a little website about the car etc, but don't hold your breath for it.

@Will - maybe

@Kev - Git. I didn't lose as such (I was faster), I just made a few errors when it counted. To be quite honest we expected to be MILES off the pace, not battling for a class win (albeit a small class). The fact that we were quicker than most stuff (Evo's, GTD GT40s, Seight Sevens etc) made us very proud and happy. On a track where the route is a bit more obvious I expect to annihilate my brother (he's a big girls blouse when it comes to driving - I still have the stubborness of youth on my side)

Added a few more pictures from my girlfriends camera (which unfortunately doesn't have a mic for video sound, so just imagine for the time being).

Hopefully we'll have some noise vids tomorrow or Wednesday, and you can hear me in all my glory (or rather the car).

tristan do u think your LFS experience has helped in real life? i know it has helped me.

and your career is progressing very well, after a few sessions in a go kart u move up to formula 3! at this rate u will be in F1 by hmm.... next thursday!! paffett and hamilton are going to be dissapointed at loosing their seats at McLaren. but ron will be happy to let u race for them.

how much do u think the day cost u???

Lol Will, I wish. Oh to be that talented/rich...

Erm the day cost me a couple of hundred quid in the end, once you got there and back, had a bit of lunch, put fuel in the Reynard, paid the meeting fee, bought a NatB Speed licence etc etc. Maybe a touch more.

Cadwell will cost a bit more simply because it's further away.

If we had done a test day, that day will also have cost about 200 - 300 pounds, but we would have had to pay £600 for us all to do our ARDS, so at the moment a few little 'cheap' sprints are giving us an idea of what to do. But I can pretty much guarantee that I'll be taking my ARDS before the year is out anyway

how do u think the formula 3 compared to the go kart? do you think the kart helped atall?

Yeah, I think the TKM did help a bit - the sense of speed is actually pretty similar - the F3 car might 'faster' but you're also higher up, so it cancels out a bit. And the TKM taught me the importance of smoothness, which is something I think I carried into the Reynard.

As for LFS experience, I don't know really. Lines, braking, accelerating and turning are pretty natural reactions, and LFS can't help with the immersion or the vibrations going on, plus LFS has much less sense of speed due to the single monitor constraints most people have...

Maybe with more practice I'll give a better description...

Sounds like you had fun. Afraid to say you will never get close to a Jedi on anything but a fast track, their power, weight, 6 speed sequential bike 'box, LSD (not sure what diff your car has?), and short wheelbase make them incredibly quick and nimble for sprints and hillclimbs. Whilst 90% of what you hear a racing paddock is bullshit and normally people make extremely modest claims to costs I believe that it is true that assuming you do the labour yourself and know what you're doing you can do an engine change for £750, giving a good 150 bhp and with a 6 speed 'box included.

Quote from tristancliffe :

All in all a successful day, and we intend to go to Cadwell on September the 17th for another sprint meeting.

Good luck to ya Be ready for a good workout pushing cars around the place

As for car setups most people in F4 leave their setups the same for all tracks, if you really want to change things quick adjustments can be had with the wings. Getting corner weights sorted is the first major step, you will be amazed at how the tinyest adjustment makes a huge difference. Get it on a set of scales, with any luck you'll have access to them through the Lancia buisness, if not you'll sometimes find scrutineers with corner weight scales who'll let you use them after they've finished if you ask very very nicely (more likely to find this at tempory venues, the permenant scales at tracks don't do corner weights). Wet adjustments basically loosen or remove rear arbs and change the tires

remember tho tristan, u will have to do corner weights as u would have the car in the race. so, you sitting in it, fuel in it, tyre pressures correct.

i was surprised how many people do corner weights WITHOUT the driver in the car illepall

Slightly less important in a single seater Will as you sit on the center line, but don't worry we will - for starters it means I don't actually have to do any work, just sit there

We have a corner weight gauge, so this is not a problem, but thanks for the rest of the tips and advice. We don't really want to adjust the setup for each track, but it would be nice if we knew that all the wheels point in the same direction and that there is a rough balance to things - at the moment there isn't, but we only found out the night before the event so had to leave it. It had never occurred to us that someone would leave the car is such a shoddy state!!!

I've been back from Uni for just over a month now I guess, and I've already lost a stone in weight (generate in the first place by too many doing manual laboury type work - there is no better workout I'm convinced, and I get paid to do it

I won't hesitate to ask if I any queries/questions, but hopefully I'll manage. But tonight I have to begin preparing a Beta Volumex engine I've just sold, which will kind of help my financial situation, and pay for racing suits, entry fees, tyres and that sort of thing.

Kev: Imagine a perfectly symmetrical stool - on a flat floor there is equal weight on each leg - the corner weights are equal. Now remove a sliver of material off the base of one leg. The Mass Distribution hasn't changed (only a tiny amount), but now one or two legs will have less weight on them, and two others will have more. The pairs are on diagonals. It's the same with cars - if you have the suspension or mass distribution different on each corner, then each wheel will take a different vertical load - which obviously changes with load transfer (braking, turning, accelerating etc). Thus a good aim is to make sure that the left:right corner weights are as equal as possible across each axle. Our car was WAY out - the front left was carrying about 25% of the weight of the front right statically. This cannot be good (just like an unbalanced stool wobbles, the analogy extends to the car wobbling).

Quote from tristancliffe :

Slightly less important in a single seater Will as you sit on the center line, but don't worry we will - for starters it means I don't actually have to do any work, just sit there

Sand bags can do the job too. But a driver needs some "work" to do sometimes and it is more accurate.

I see you have been given lots of good advice on running the car at ten-tenths. A few noob questions: what exactly is this ARDS thingy. A full racing license? 600 GBP for three people? Doesn't sound that exspensive to me.

And another question that has to be asked: If you do take the car to real tracks and the inevitable happens (the cars kinetic energy is rather suddenly coverted to other, less rewarding forms of energy), what is the spares situation like for a car this age?

ARDS is the Association Of Racing Driver Schools.

Completing their test would give me a National B Race Licence (international and/or A licences cost more and can be multiple day tests), which is required for anything other than sprints and hillclimbs basically (my licence is a National B Non-Race (or Speed) licence, and costs £33 with no test). They cost about £200 each, which is quite lot before you've even turned a wheel. Thus we are going to have about two sprint meetings for the cost of one ARDS test.

However, after Cadwell I think I will do the test so we can take it somewhere better and have more track time, but we didn't want to spend too much money without knowing if we liked it, or how much fun/stress/expensive F3ing is. In the long term it's not expensive, but in the short term (what we are concerned about right now) it's too much to justify when we might get bored of it (not that I think we will!).

It's NOT inevitable!!! *puts fingers in ears and shouts at the top of his voice to keep J.B's doubting tone away*

Erm, yeah most things are obtainable actually (apparently). The hardest bit would be tub/chassis repairs, in which case the cost of doing a good repair to the carbon fiber might be a tad high. But you pays your money and you takes your chance as they say.

I don't intend to crash

Edit: Some simple maths for you lot (just because I love maths).

The course = ~3.5km = 2.17 miles

Average Speeds
My first time: 1m46 = 118kmh = 74mph
Andrews first time = 1m55 = 110kmh = 68mph
My second time = 1m40 = 126kmh = 78mph
Andrews second time = 1m51 = 114kmh = 70mph (cutting a corner)
My third time = Spin!
Andrews third time = 1m46 = 118kmh = 74mph
My fourth time = 1m40 = 126kmh = 78mph (with a slow bit outside some cones)
Andrews fourth time = Spin!

Best Lap of the Jedi = 1m28 = 143kmh = 89mph
Best Lap of Westfield XTR2 = 2m10 = 97kmh = 60mph
Best Lap of the GTD GT40s = 1m55 = 110kmh = 68mph

Thus we didn't do too badly. Also bear in mind that 4 of the 6 corners are quite slow - no more than 40 or 50mph, which goes to show that on the straights we were almost certainly pulling a decent max speed, but I have yet to work out the speeds for each gear.

Sorry for sounding negative there. Good thing that parts are available and I don't think you are very likely to damage the tub. And if you don't intend to crash I hope you don't use the simracing style of approaching the limit from the far side.

You can move weight around - on a few of the race cars I've worked on in the past the suspension hasn't been adjustable (stock historic road cars with 'simple and cheap' mods (read: difficult and expensive, but not quite F1)) we've resoted to moving the ballast, the battery, the fire extinguisher etc around. On Fulvias it's actually beneficial to have a full tank of fuel, as the gain of balance (and rear end weight = tyre loading) more than outweighs the greater mass to accelerate.

On the F3 car we don't have much to move about. We could move the battery a bit in the sidepod, but that's about it. Hence adjusting the spring platform to achieve a compromise between ride-height and corner weights. If the car is designed well (and it DID win the 1988 F3 Championship in the hands of a Jerki Jarvi Lehto) we should get equal corner weights with equal ride height side-to-side That's the theory anyway

J.B. My sense of self (and car) preservation means that I am currently driving more pansy than Godlike - there is plenty more to come in entry and mid corner speed, braking and throttle application - which is just about all of it.

Quote from tristancliffe :

My sense of self (and car) preservation means that I am currently driving more pansy than Godlike - there is plenty more to come in entry and mid corner speed, braking and throttle application - which is just about all of it.

I am sure this is true, but don't be too hard on yourself: the fact that you managed to spin it once suggests you weren't completely in Mr Magoo mode.

Sounds great, Tristan! It must be a little frustrating, with such long gaps between opportunities to drive. At least with LFS you can drive 'til you drop, but I'm sure nothing can even remotely compare with the real thing. WTG

Nice

I didn't know you were part ot Ten-Tenths (im kidzer there aswell )

I enjoy going to sprints/hillcimbs, I only spectate at the mo, but theres a FFord in the garage minus an Engine, hopefully once it gets a powerplant me and dad will do a few events in it hopefully

Shame about the lack of track time at them though, I guess it's an advantage karting (just 'testing' - not racing ) - you can just go up whenever you fancy, and the only limit on the laps you can do is how much fuel/oil you take with you