Quote from BlueFlame :

They can't. Basically the popular mods will be the decent ones, generally speaking. I mean if the mods aren't up to par people will just drive the standard cars anyway so their mod would be uselessly unpopular.

If that was the case, why did rFactor do so well? Out of the thousands of mods only 2 or 3 were even vaguely acceptable. And I didn't even like those 2 or 3.

Unfortunately, an "F1 Mod" made by someone in their bedroom will probably be popular, and anyone who dislikes it will be told "how would you know, you've never driven an F1 car". I think most mods will be terribly inaccurate and could still be popular. Especially if the inaccuracy makes it easier or vastly more difficult. Easier because it's more accessible to apes, and the latter because a lot of people still think difficulty = realism.

Quote from BlueFlame :

In relation to the GFX talk I think alot of games go for the shiny bloom shiny shiny option. Such as gayCARS where the tyres shine like a polished shoe reflecting back the scenery as opposed to a tyre that's actually being used on an actual track which is dull. Whilst tyres may have a certain amount of shine, it's certainly nothing like alot of games portray these days, much like other surfaces, it seems like they try to bring out reflections for objects that didn't exist in the first place.

That's where the problems lie. You could have a very dull game with quite faint reflections and it would look like one of the most real sims (visually) ever made.

That's why I liked LFS's visuals long after that made me a blind fanboy, because although they were comparatively simple, it had a realistic look and sheen to it that few had managed to capture.

Exactly, like ARMA III, you just don't overdo the saturation and reflections, real world is not like that..

The most immersing thing, visually, is not how shiny things are or how high-res a road or grass texture is, but how things move and interact. If a car looks like it's floating across a road, changing direction as though it's devoid of energy or inertia, then it does not look right and never will except for in screen-shots. GT5's accursed photo-mode is proof of this. For me, at least.

My opinion of mods is that if they're fun then I'll like them, and if it's not exactly like the real car, that's okay as long as the sim it resides in has good enough physics underneath. I don't really "get" the whole real-cars only thing in sims anyway. It makes no difference to me if I'm "driving" a real Ferrari lookalike, or a lookalike-lookalike with a different name.
They aren't real in either case. The shape and name of things is unimportant. Except for attracting customers and adding kudos and publicity.

Quote from tristancliffe :

If that was the case, why did rFactor do so well? Out of the thousands of mods only 2 or 3 were even vaguely acceptable. And I didn't even like those 2 or 3.

It's kind of a phenomenon I think. A massive portion of the playerbase are people who aren't hardcore sim-racers so the Megane mod etc was good enough for them. If rFactor had proper top level competitions I'd imagine that they'd have used more realistic mods. At least that's what I hope from Asetto Corsa.

But you're right, there was/is a shit tonne of wank mods on rFactor but even rFactor community had standards, if someone made a very half-arsed attempt at a mod people wouldn't even bother downloading it once they'd seen a bad review.

Quote from sinbad :

It makes no difference to me if I'm "driving" a real Ferrari lookalike, or a lookalike-lookalike with a different name.
They aren't real in either case. The shape and name of things is unimportant. Except for attracting customers and adding kudos and publicity.

The advantage to proper licensed content is geometry and performance accuracy though, not to mention better quality and realistic audio samples. Although I do agree with you mostly.

If they get the physics right, all that's needed for a good third party car would be exact replication of suspension coordinates and weight of parts/CoG, bit like X-Plane for that matter.

Quote from ACCAkut :

If they get the physics right, all that's needed for a good third party car would be exact replication of suspension coordinates and weight of parts/CoG, bit like X-Plane for that matter.

True.

I wasn't 100% sure, but I assumed it was classic Shotglass sarcasm / humour...

That tarmac looks kinda fake to me too..

Anyway, a depressing amount of opinions and reviews from you guys..

Reflection of the sun in the Ferrari's wheels (we still can't get it that perfect) gave it away for me. That and the fact that the kerbs seemed to have a bit too much detail.

Quote from BlueFlame :

But you're right, there was/is a shit tonne of wank mods on rFactor but even rFactor community had standards, if someone made a very half-arsed attempt at a mod people wouldn't even bother downloading it once they'd seen a bad review.

Wank is the perfect word there. lol

The rF community does indeed have standards. Low ones, but standards none-the-less.

Quote :

The advantage to proper licensed content is geometry and performance accuracy though, not to mention better quality and realistic audio samples. Although I do agree with you mostly.

This kind of information varies from one manufacturer to another, and one car to another sometimes. It is, though, the biggest possible technical benefit to licensing, though. Of course, the people who are bought in by shiny red Italian cars probably don't care about the specific attention to detail in this regard. Different strokes for different folks, I guess.

Quote from ACCAkut :

If they get the physics right, all that's needed for a good third party car would be exact replication of suspension coordinates and weight of parts/CoG, bit like X-Plane for that matter.

In theory, yes! In practice, though, I've heard that most physics engines have to be simplified for real-time gaming to the point that this isn't totally possible. Don't know if that's still the case, but it was at one time.

I suppose that best part of having mods would be a submit system where the software owner gets to check it out for evaluation before it can be released.

Quote from Hotdogxx60 :

I suppose that best part of having mods would be a submit system where the software owner gets to check it out for evaluation before it can be released.

Then you run into legal issues with the software developer giving the OK to copywritten content.

Quote from tristancliffe :

But it is a photo. What do you mean the flat kerbs, white line and unnatural tarmac?

Shotglass @ stfu mode

Quote from tristancliffe :

But it is a photo. What do you mean the flat kerbs, white line and unnatural tarmac?

Shotglass was talking about those AC screenshots, not the last one which is real.

You think? Is the AC logo on them not a bit of a giveaway?

I think you need to clam down and have a cup of tea, guys! I do agree with Phil that nowadays the people are too much demanding. They do criticize and criticize, instead of enjoy the the product. AC is working to bring the simulation as close to the reality as possible.

I think the graphics looking "slightly wrong" is also a lot about the fact that you know you are looking for mistakes. You look at a videogame and anything that seems a bit wrong is automatically attributed to the game being wrong. But when you look at real racing you do not look for mistakes and stuff that looks wrong at all. But real life is not smooth and perfect either. Sometimes you see some real life footage that looks simply wrong. One of those videos was some alms corvette in the sebring last year I think. The way the car took the bumps (probably the last corner in sebring but could have been daytona) just looked so wrong. The way the car just bounced and rocked back and forth like the old radical in iracing... If I had seen that in videogame it would have looked wrong to me

On the subject of real cars, vs made up cars in a sim like AC, for me the biggest problem with real cars is that we can adjust our steering settings so much. Different steering wheels feel different, with different maximum rotation and different force-feedback settings. You could have a car which has horrid vague over-assisted steering in real-life that feels the same as any lightweight sports car with a quick rack and no power assistance.
I say that's a problem, it's not so much a problem as it is something that devalues the joy of a great car. If you can't go from an e90 to an e30 m3 and appreciate the steering feel then that makes me ask, what's the point?
You can get suspension, weight distribution and geometry perfect, and a perfect 3d model, but if when you drive it you know that you and everyone else will just have the steering the way they like it, then it's all a bit meaningless. Not to mention brakes with very different pedal feel, throttle pedals with different travel, clutches and gearboxes that feel unique. When you switch from one real car to another there is so much besides on the limit balance and outright grip that contributes towards "handling".

So for me I feel like they might as well not be pretending to offer what is basically impossible. At the end of it all they're just paying for the shape and name. Specifications can be replicated and with great physics underneath the end result can be just as involving, rewarding and impressive. With rubbish physics underneath it doesn't matter how much you spend making it look, read or sound like the real car. Sounds can be good or bad whether they're sampled or not.

That's why I find it hard to get excited about a specific "real car" in a simulation any more than I am about the configuration and specification of that real car.

I also don't get multi-car class racing in simulations either. In real-life it's a means to an end, but in sim racing it just means there is performance disparity when there's no point.
If AC take the specs verbatim there will be a faster car in a class, and because it's real they'll have to decide whether to change it or not (if it's fictional they wouldn't have to decide). It's not a competition of car vs car or manufacturer vs manufacturer, in a simulation racing environment, it's driver vs driver. There is no need for different cars, no audience to entertain, no budget constraints or logistic concerns, no publicity benefits.
Anyway, rant over, I know a lot of people like to see different shape cars next to them (although I doubt they enjoy it if that car is faster).

Well not to mention Sinbad, real cars have varying steeringwheels but also varying steering wheel offset positioning too.

Does anyone ever notice steering wheel "offset postioning"? I was driving a Stratos the other day and that's meant to be the worst for that sort of thing. But you only notice if you're Jeremy Clarkson trying to make a reputation on TV. Any normal driver just wouldn't notice it, just like you don't notice changing gear with the other hand in a left-hand-drive car.
But because of Clarkson (and only Clarkson) it's a 'big thing'.

Quote from tristancliffe :

Does anyone ever notice steering wheel "offset postioning"? I was driving a Stratos the other day and that's meant to be the worst for that sort of thing. But you only notice if you're Jeremy Clarkson trying to make a reputation on TV. Any normal driver just wouldn't notice it, just like you don't notice changing gear with the other hand in a left-hand-drive car.
But because of Clarkson (and only Clarkson) it's a 'big thing'.

well actually i i went from 4th to 2nd because i was driving wrong side car.

not nice :S

But the positons aren't mirrored. 1st is still left and forwards (mostly), whether it's LHD or RHD? I think it would be much harder if the gear positions were mirrored, but as they aren't it's as easy as walking either side of a lamppost - you just don't think about it.

Not sure if it was because the wheel was offset or not, but I certainly noticed that the pedals were offset in my bosses old Audi A4.

Quote from tristancliffe :

Does anyone ever notice steering wheel "offset postioning"? I was driving a Stratos the other day and that's meant to be the worst for that sort of thing. But you only notice if you're Jeremy Clarkson trying to make a reputation on TV. Any normal driver just wouldn't notice it, just like you don't notice changing gear with the other hand in a left-hand-drive car.
But because of Clarkson (and only Clarkson) it's a 'big thing'.

I'm not talking about LHD and RHD.. I'm talking about the central axis position of the wheel in relation to the circumference of the wheel itself.

Like on F1 cars for example, the steering boss is very low down so effectively your pulling over the axis of steering input. Where as with some roadcars and things like a Mini or Caterham when you're at 3 and 9 with your hands they are inline with the center of the steering boss.

But I completely agree with your opinion of people whining about LHD cars. They need to shut up because it's really not an issue. There's only 1 issue with LHD cars and that's motorway merging but if the car is a saloon or hatchback you have enough windows that actually you can see more with a LHD car than you can with a RHD when merging.

Oh ok. Yes, that would slightly effect the feel and loadings through the wheel at different times, so could be a factor.