Quote from Frunze118 :

bishtop, you got really good time. But the reason why you can't faster is following learned trajectory. Maybe some expirements or racing on another tracks with fbm will help you with beating your pb.

+1, new tracks will help you to learn new driving techinques, which are very important if you want to be more closer to WR. I'll suggest for start something like AS1/R and South City is very good.

i have started to use fbm on other tracks recently and it is beguinning to help, i think one of my main problems is concentration(focus) which mine is easily distracted so i guess i also need to work on that little, thankyou and all help/advice is always appreciated. one thing i know would probably help me is to get involved in a league of some sort and is something i may look into,il be nowhere near fast enough to be good competition but it would be about learning/progress

at egghed6 - its quite a lot of laps and i only started fbm about a year and half ago, ive altogether done 79165 laps since starting lfs in 2010.ive really only just started to explore most of the other tracks aswell,

bish

Quote from monsterrocks :

heres a replay so you can all have a look and give me some tips guys

I havent played in a while so i might not be much help, but a few things i think could be improved on the first lap in that replay:
T1 braking, bit of a gap between coming off gas and getting on brake, think you could potentially do that a bit quicker (not a major issue really though)
T1 exit a bit wide i would say.. try not to go onto the blue/white kerb on exit
End of straight corner maybe a little too much sliding? could just be the setup though
2nd last corner, you turn in hard as you come off the brakes which really destablises the car so slide too much, possibly try to control it by straightening the steering very briefly as you release the brake?

Also you drive on the right side of the car (like me ) so people like nilexs setups may not be quite so good as they've been made for left side drivers

The fact that you're using a race setup rather than qually gears will cost you little on the wr times too

Its a very good lap though, keep it up and im sure you'll keep improving! Try to experiment with different lines etc as well as looking over the HL analyser..

Oh and you're welcome to give my setup a try, its on setupgrid.. just be warned its pretty tail happy

Ok, so I'm gonna use the thread to ask how can I rip off about 2 seconds.
Yeah, I know, you all gonna tell me that I need practice, but I want you to tell me precisely what I'm doing wrong, cause I hardly have an idea (as for example bad first turn entry, as well as poor turn after the long straight), I know I could go much fuster, both in terms of speed and laptime, but when I try to go a few kmph faster, I simply end up somewhere far away from the track, usually on sand. Yeah, I love beaches and sunlight, but not necessarily when racing.

My fastest time ever was 1,35,03. On the spr I made slightly worse, on 6th lap.

Quote from Rotaryman :

Ok, so I'm gonna use the thread to ask how can I rip off about 2 seconds.
Yeah, I know, you all gonna tell me that I need practice, but I want you to tell me precisely what I'm doing wrong, cause I hardly have an idea (as for example bad first turn entry, as well as poor turn after the long straight), I know I could go much fuster, both in terms of speed and laptime, but when I try to go a few kmph faster, I simply end up somewhere far away from the track, usually on sand. Yeah, I love beaches and sunlight, but not necessarily when racing.

My fastest time ever was 1,35,03. On the spr I made slightly worse, on 6th lap.

1st question: Have you tried to improve your setup?

Nope... I totally know nothing about setting a car.
This setup I got recently from someone called Angle or something similar. Before I was used to the one I got from Luka, and at very beginning of my more serious lfs racing my favourite one was Easy Race from this forum.

I liked the new setup much, but there are at least two things which I find disturbing: first one, is sometimes weak traction of rear wheels. Second is that I cannot brake as late as others, and somehow I cannot make it through the turns at the same speed. But, what's weird, there are parts of the track were I can keep up with faster guys, and even catch 'em up. Also, I have quite similar time at first lap comparing to them, at least when I drive in front (which is probably just because of problems with passing).

Nevermind, the answer to your question is no. I thought that if the authors of the setup were able to do fast 1,33,xx, then I should be able to go at least 1,34,xx, with practice of course.

thx for the help Jinja Jorj the car seems to naturally understeer wide out of T1 i think its setup thing because as you said its made for eft hand side drivers and i'm on the right which is what i've always had in the back of my mind but wasn't sure how much of a difference it made but i guessit would when you sit on the left and the setup is based aruond that + its setup to use for a mouse and i'm using a G27 steering wheel dunno if it makes much difference though, but every little bit helps i'll try your set over the next 2 days and see how i go

So you have asked me if I modified my setup.
Then I guess it is crucial to doing better laptimes.
Okay, so then - how do I prevent going sideways when racing?

Also - I tried trail braking. It works, but only on about 2 turns - the hairpin (turn 1) and the second turn after long straight.
Dunno if it's realy trail braking, in first turn I can actually brake while turning, but on the second mentioned turn, I only "tap" brakes while turning, so I put more weight on front wheels.
I cannot apply this to the turn after straight though.

Quote from Rotaryman :

Ok, so I'm gonna use the thread to ask how can I rip off about 2 seconds.
Yeah, I know, you all gonna tell me that I need practice, but I want you to tell me precisely what I'm doing wrong, cause I hardly have an idea (as for example bad first turn entry, as well as poor turn after the long straight), I know I could go much fuster, both in terms of speed and laptime, but when I try to go a few kmph faster, I simply end up somewhere far away from the track, usually on sand. Yeah, I love beaches and sunlight, but not necessarily when racing.

My fastest time ever was 1,35,03. On the spr I made slightly worse, on 6th lap.

From the 6th lap I'd say the main things are:

Turn 1 braking - you braked very early, so turned in a bit early and had to dab throttle before apex.. If you're going for top times then you would also want to brake starting on the kerb on the left and trailing towards the centre of the track by the turn in point, but thats not so important just yet!
Aim to brake just slightly before the start of the kerb, then experiment with down changes and steering until you can happily get around the corner.. I hate to say but that part is mainly practice.. sorry!

Chicane - try to straight line the chicane slightly more, on lap 6 you just missed the central apex, although you hit the first and last kerbs right

Corner at the end of the straight - very good, theres lots of lines you can take there, all of them get pretty similar times.. you're on lap 6 was pretty close to being spot on tbh

2nd corner in sector 2 - What you did worked well, but you continued turning to the right for too long.. You can push wider on the exit and make the most of the inside kerb for the left hander
Another thing you can try is to use the kerb on the left on the entrance to this corner, which takes a bit of practice but gives a wider entry so a faster line through

2nd last corner - Good, but you braked a bit early/too much. Try to carry more speed into the corner, but be much later getting on the throttle
You can also try using more of the kerb on the left on entry when you get more confident with the rest

Last corner - again too much braking, try to really carry as much speed through here as possible. try experimenting with just a dab on the brakes (you may need to do it slightly earlier to not go wide). You can also push out wider on the exit.. aim to just mount the exit kerb with your right wheels just after the kerb width increases

Hope some of that helps, and of course you're welcome to give my set up a try, although as said previously its made for right side driving and is very tail happy..

Quote from monsterrocks :

thx for the help Jinja Jorj the car seems to naturally understeer wide out of T1 i think its setup thing because as you said its made for eft hand side drivers and i'm on the right which is what i've always had in the back of my mind but wasn't sure how much of a difference it made but i guessit would when you sit on the left and the setup is based aruond that + its setup to use for a mouse and i'm using a G27 steering wheel dunno if it makes much difference though, but every little bit helps i'll try your set over the next 2 days and see how i go

No problem mate, hope it helps I use G25 and right side drive so hopefully my set will work for you too i do know what you mean about his set feeling quite understeery out of T1 good luck!

Thanks for reply! As for t1, I think I slowly begin to understand how to clear it.

Also I think I begin to see where I lose time and where I can keep up with others, but my driving is far from being consistent.

Moreover I recently try to tame xrg, but it truly is somehow tricky.

does someone mind breaking down my lap in detail compared to another faster lap i have a basic understanding but i find it hard where to improve and i'm having trouble reading it like steering,brake and throttle inputs even when slowing it down.

Have you tried using the hotlap analyser on lfsworld? It will give you a full comparison of your hotlap against any other uploaded one.

Link > http://www.lfsworld.net/rafa/. pick the combo, then select your hotlap and someone elses (clicking the red and blue raf buttons top left to select them). It will show your lines, brake and throttle inputs side by side so you can see exactly were you are losing time.

here are the attachments guys if someone could help explain to me in detail what i'm doing thats slightly different.

Quote from monsterrocks :

here are the attachments guys if someone could help explain to me in detail what i'm doing thats slightly different.

Always quite difficult when it gets down to this level.. I'd say the main points:

Not very smooth on starting curve, you keep wheel straight then turn quite hard, want a much smoother line.. thats only costing you like 0.01-.02 though

You also turn into the inside kerb of the chicane a bit too much, losing you speed out of chicane and hence are slightly slower all down the straight. I'm obviously not the person to come to for help here though, as thats also the main difference between my lap vs WR

You lose a bit more time at the corner at the end of the straight as you don't quite touch the apex.. want to just nudge that one..

2nd last corner need to straighten up wheel as you come off brakes to stop sliding, as it loses you a lot of speed.. you also are slightly wide of the apex
(Maybe what you did on lap 2 works, but think you could probably carry in more speed with a narrower entry, personal preference though)

Also could be minutely closer to last apex, although less of an issue. try to keep to the right on the final stretch to the finish line a bit more though

Another difference (not necessarily a bad thing in this case) is you carry more speed into 2nd corner in sc2, running slightly wider on exit so lose a bit of speed into sc3.. seemed to gain you time though

Hope some of that vaguely helped

Quote from jinja jorj :

Always quite difficult when it gets down to this level.. I'd say the main points:

Not very smooth on starting curve, you keep wheel straight then turn quite hard, want a much smoother line.. thats only costing you like 0.01-.02 though

You also turn into the inside kerb of the chicane a bit too much, losing you speed out of chicane and hence are slightly slower all down the straight. I'm obviously not the person to come to for help here though, as thats also the main difference between my lap vs WR

You lose a bit more time at the corner at the end of the straight as you don't quite touch the apex.. want to just nudge that one..

2nd last corner need to straighten up wheel as you come off brakes to stop sliding, as it loses you a lot of speed.. you also are slightly wide of the apex
(Maybe what you did on lap 2 works, but think you could probably carry in more speed with a narrower entry, personal preference though)

Also could be minutely closer to last apex, although less of an issue. try to keep to the right on the final stretch to the finish line a bit more though

Another difference (not necessarily a bad thing in this case) is you carry more speed into 2nd corner in sc2, running slightly wider on exit so lose a bit of speed into sc3.. seemed to gain you time though

Hope some of that vaguely helped

Is the curve the first corner? So i have to be a smoither steering into the first turn? Inside if the chicane is that the entrance or middle just need clarification cheers for the help man appreciate it

Quote from jinja jorj :

Always quite difficult when it gets down to this level.. I'd say the main points:

Not very smooth on starting curve, you keep wheel straight then turn quite hard, want a much smoother line.. thats only costing you like 0.01-.02 though

You also turn into the inside kerb of the chicane a bit too much, losing you speed out of chicane and hence are slightly slower all down the straight. I'm obviously not the person to come to for help here though, as thats also the main difference between my lap vs WR

You lose a bit more time at the corner at the end of the straight as you don't quite touch the apex.. want to just nudge that one..

2nd last corner need to straighten up wheel as you come off brakes to stop sliding, as it loses you a lot of speed.. you also are slightly wide of the apex
(Maybe what you did on lap 2 works, but think you could probably carry in more speed with a narrower entry, personal preference though)
Also could be minutely closer to last apex, although less of an issue. try to keep to the right on the final stretch to the finish line a bit more though

Another difference (not necessarily a bad thing in this case) is you carry more speed into 2nd corner in sc2, running slightly wider on exit so lose a bit of speed into sc3.. seemed to gain you time though

Hope some of that vaguely helped

2nd last corner is that the downhill right hander just after the right, left S bend or the uphill left hander?

How am i with steering and throttle for the rest of the course am i too rough, is my timing for full throttle right or am i just a fraction too late?

hello. from just a logic point of view, the closer your inputs get to perfect ones, the smoother and gentler they are because the closer you are to the limit, the less room there is for sudden changes without going over.

some aspects of the limit you choose with your setup. e.g. spring rate + dampers at all 4 corners + tire pressures determine the optimum speed you should apply the brakes. harder set = faster application or else you introduce a wiggle. (any wiggle or extra movement in the suspension comes out later as a force over or under the limit)

one thing that was said but bears repeating: you can drive the same line as a wr, but in reality the 2d line you follow seen from above is not all there is. we must follow a 4d line into the corner: the rear of the car coming up under braking has to eventually come back down as you turn in. the speed of braking / release / turn in sets up a pendulum swing in the angular rotations of the car, pitch and roll and yaw.

what you see when the wr car is on full throttle at early turn-in and does not understeer is the result of all the set up leading to that moment, the pendulum swinging the weight, the inertia of the car into the springs and dampers to keep give extra force down on the contact patch for the 1/x seconds needed at that point in turn-in.

of course this is all to be thought of at other times than driving... when we are like Senna and "walk" around LFS in shift-U mode at slow speed or do laps in the FZR without the gas pedal pressed...

in reality our minds are made to do this kind of complex calculation without conscious thought, like when we watch a baseball coming toward us and reach out and catch it, the calculus is done automatically.

with proper mental preparation, guide your inputs toward where you know everything in the car will be working better toward your goal, and you will find the rough edges and sand them off. the "perfect" line will feel more familiar.

sorry if this is all too zen but i hate proofs and yet this is really how to go quicker

Chucked on some pictures from lfsw HL analyser to help illustrate the points, think that'll be easier than trying to describe where i mean

I'll have another look at your replay tomorrow and see if theres anything else other than what i mentioned in the last response

And thats a fair point CarlLefrancois, basically just means that you cant just jump in and drive the wr lap.. It takes practice and experimentation to find how the car feels and reacts in different situations.

Hope I've managed to help in some way anyway monsterrocks.. You can also try asking people online to help out/watch your driving, or even just watch them - see what they do different to you and try it.. Even if it works out slower for you, it still gives you the experience to know how the car will react if you are forced to use a similar racing line by other cars in a race

i found a better lap of me if anyone wants to have a peek and give their opinions,its slower then the other one, but with much better sector times -_-

havent played for a while, but i want to know what someone thinks of this lap its average though, been months and havent been on frequently

bump! still need to find that bit more any help is great! please!

1:33.67 is your laptime? (can not watch the replay atm)
If yes, it is only 1s behind WR. (1:32:730)
The WRs on Blackwood are probally the most optimized ones of all tracks...So I think it is already quite good to get so close
Many drivers struggle to reach that even when cutting. (would be invalid as WR)

I can not help you with your laptime but, maybe show how good it really is:
Last time I drove the XFG@BL1 combo the winner's fastest lap was 1:33.47


If you want download the "S2 2015 Jan Special BL1 XFG.mpr" replay:
https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B62cbH56Sx8nbDduU1hqbmMzVFE&usp=sharing&tid=0B62cbH56Sx8ndWRjdW53WGxhRzQ

Skip to end of race and see what were the laptimes of other drivers.
That is just beginners league but even elsewhere getting within 1s of WR is probally at least in top 10 or so. (The final result would not be due to the PB time but constancy.)
And keep in mind these times are likely with slipstream from other cars and with much more cutting than the hotlapping mode permits.
Your time is with the stricter hotlap rules and just as fast.

Not sure what your ultimate goal is? Beat the WR for this combo?
The last 1/10 secondes will be very hard to find...eventually there is a limit.
Maybe the limit is not even you but your wheel or pedals.
My suggestion is do like others wrote: Try different car/track, it might teach you more than more laps on same combo.

Nobody has yet mentioned AONIO - an awesome little tool that has, amongst other features, a panel that compares your PB time and speed live against the lap you're on.

In a nutshell, you can try out various approaches to corners and see how they affect not only your time but also your exit speed, and you no longer have to lump several corners into one test waiting for a split to crop up

https://www.lfs.net/forum/thre ... ---Client-side-LFS-Tracer