I disagree. But there is no point in starting to explain why because you already have your opinion of what is and what isn't. So I'll just agree to disagree.
I disagree. But there is no point in starting to explain why because you already have your opinion of what is and what isn't. So I'll just agree to disagree.
Which part of the graph shows Pirelli but no DRS? As that's the point of my post. Alonso showed that overtakes can happen without DRS at Bahrain. So with that in mind, would that be the "middle ground" that will have people fapping in excitement again? Or would it still be "too easy" to pass?
@Mustafur: when was the last year that F1 was not a time trial? Now think of how the cars were built and how different the technology is today.
This is an excellent point
I actually did watch the final half of this race after I woke up on Sunday morning. As I've said before, F1 does not interest me like other forms of auto racing for one reason or another.
. I think it comes with an abundance of driving rules, but I cannot pin point that for sure.I love motor sport period though. (Demo-Derby, Figure 8, Motor Boat, Motorcycle, Endurance, Sprint, Dirt, Pavement, anything) I'll watch anything and give it a try. I can't explain why I don't exactly find F1 interesting, but I am able to see what you guys enjoy in it. I'll sit down and watch the Monaco GP, then watch the Indy 500, then watch the Coke 600 two Sundays from now right in a row
. If there is a rally race on TV between the GP and the 500 I'd watch it too.Anyways, the point of the matter is that some people can't stand oval racing. I think they are crazy, but it really doesn't matter
. Some people have posted saying that F1's tyres and DRS aren't entertaining. That's just as much of an opinion. When I first heard of it I hated the ideas, but as I've watched a little bit it's just become another aspect of that specific kind of racing. The only problem is that people who watch Formula 1 racing and have formulated an opinion of what that specific type of racing should look like, and others just don't like ideas period.I've never seen F1 without it, and I've grown to be okay with it. It still doesn't appeal to me more than other forms of racing, and I'm not sure that it would in any event.
I was once dumb enough to argue my opinions on the matter, but I'm smarter than that now.
. Fact is that you can't argue opinions and get anywhere. 
Just out of curiosity by the way, what kind of draft advantage would a following F1 car have on a long straight-away without DRS? How bad would the Areo-Understeer be? Any ideas? I was thinking that on some of the long straights the draft could more than erase the loss in the corners.
Look here at the number of green flag passes in this race: http://racing-reference.info/loopdata/2013-10/W
I think that's just stupid and not entertaining. More passes aren't always better.
You're talking about yourself there, not me.
I was against DRS at first too until I realized how actually bad the racing was and how the wings change didn't work at all even when diffusers got finally banned.
DRS is absolutely necessary. And it's about time for everyone who appreciates F1 to accept that in order to remove negativity and start enjoying the racing and be entertained once again.
I already explained to you that middle ground doesn't exist. And you keep pushing your view about middle ground without even stating what it is. I'm rather trying to show you a thing or two here, instead of negating everything you say.
The one thing that would be cool is to bring back normal looking F1 wings on cars since with either wings gap between the cars is 0.45sec. Hence, I don't see any point in cars looking as ugly as they do at the moment when dirty air works about the same. If drivers were able to come to 0.25sec to car ahead with this remodeled overtake wings we wouldn't be having this argument here and DRS would have never even existed. Read the facts, make a big picture for yourself before going to negate something as clear as this is.
I read an interesting article the other day how pole position was introduced and how at first it felt a little bit artificial. In this day and age it's absolutely the most normal thing to have qualifying and noone can imagine racing without it. DRS should be embraced in similar fashion in high downforce race-cars such as F1 and DTM. We're honored here that we started to witness the new era of something to last for decades at least and this is why I'm pushing on this point. You need to open your eyes to that or else you'll be grumpy in four years time again complaining about the same old thing being unable to enjoy something that you love.
Sure as hell you don't want that and sure as hell you need to educate yourself or allow yourself to be educated.
P.S. @PMD: Interesting point, but I think he was racing people around 1second slower than he was rather than 0.5sec slower than him or even closer to his pace. :S
When they were planning to change the wings didn't they test a really thin, wide rear wing? I'd like to see what would happen if they tried those and dropped the DRS.
Rappa, stop stealing my avatar ffs. I used it first.
Oh no u di'nt
When he was at the back of the grid sure, but he made his way back to 8th without the use of DRS at all. Sure, he wouldn't be able to easily get by if it were a 1st/2nd battle, but isn't that what some want? An actual "battle" and not just a DRS fly-by? Strategies will always be different with these tires, so the different speeds from nearly all cars would help in creating overtaking opportunities. That's my reason in saying DRS being dropped could produce much better 'racing'.
I'll pull the trump card and say that I've used this avatar for like over 3 years so you all are the copycats.
Strategies aren't having that much variety.
Check top overtakes of 2012 and you'll see fly by's are no where near a majority as 99% of people suggest in their panic attacks.
And I mean just how many times even with DRS the chaser never got a chance to get even along side. We tend to forget that.
DRS system has it's flaws, but I can accept them because what it brings on the other spectrum is so much better.
Fly by's really only happen when someone is hugely off pace or has shit load small top speed or you're at SPA where you can overtake with 2008 spec car with no problem.
Why on Earth would top overtakes have anything to do with DRS?
I'm fine with keeping both, I'm just suggesting a middle ground so people like Mustafur could be happy for a small period of time.
I'm fine with keeping both, I'm just suggesting a middle ground so people like Mustafur could be happy for a small period of time.
Mustafur will understand everything I told him one day. 
You might wanna enligthen JB with your great understanding cause it seems he doesn't get it either
"A lot of people watching will think there’s a lot of overtaking, it’s great, isn’t it? But I see a car behind and I let it past. If I block I might destroy my tyres. When we're going round doing laps three seconds slower than a GP2 car did in qualifying, and only six seconds quicker than a GP3 car did in the race, there's something wrong," the McLaren driver said.
"This is the pinnacle of motor sport. We shouldn't be driving round so slowly to look after the tires."
Button added that even the thrill of overtaking has diminished considerably, since drivers know that they are often going past because "the other guy's tires are destroyed", while the need to ensure that the tires do not get too hot or cold demand extreme concentration from those at the wheel.
also forward your educational material to Webber, and LH, and Rosberg, and DiResta etc.. those stupid tools are still in the dark. Save them.
Yea, anyone who's not winning is obviously going to have a problem with the situation. Where as Alonso/Räikkönen will say "It is what it is and we just deal with it."
I was in your position over a year ago, i woke up.
Lotus definitely don't want anything changed because they know they depend on the crappy tyres to have any chance in the championship.
They've learned how to adapt and drive within the limits of the tyres. Ultimately your tyres dictate how fast you can and can't go. If some teams/drivers can't adapt, then they deserve to lose.
JB's really become a cry-baby this year. May Perez own the shizz out of him like in Bahrain and may JB never defend again. No, really I told you which drivers are prone to whining at the moment, how the strategies work and how you can put the things to get bigger and better perspective of things. So why don't you just go and re-read the thread a little bit.
kudos
If Lotus can't adapt to the imminent changes in the tyres this year by Pirelli, then they deserve to lose.
It's such a stupid arguement that people are using "oh it's unfair to change the tyres" etc...
We all know we have a spec tyre manufacturer whose job is it to manufacturer tyres that provide entertaining races. This is the demand from the public. If the demand from the public says "this is too much" then it's Pirelli's job to change the tyres to meet the new demand. Supply and demand... it's very basic to understand.
If a team builds a car that's good on cheese tyres, great, but they also have to fully expect that those tyres could change at any moment during the season. It's tough tits, THEY have to adapt mid-season as much as the other teams had to adapt pre-season.
This is a direct result of the ambiguous request by the FIA to have a spec-tyre which provides 'entertainment'. If Lotus are caught out, tough, shoulda thought about that before they built a decent car on cheese tyres. This is the modern game of F1.
You are one mad Hamilton fan And dawesdust, first you steal my avatar now you steal my opinions aswell? Get out
And dawesdust, first you steal my avatar now you steal my opinions aswell? Get outI wouldn't be surprised if 'accidentally' RB became fast with the new tyres. They'll be like "drivers have to deal with it, it's a part of racing".
Seriously though, when they were winning races in a row they didn't have a word, now that they couldn't make it to the podium it's suddenly "not about racing anymore". 
Seriously though, when they were winning races in a row they didn't have a word, now that they couldn't make it to the podium it's suddenly "not about racing anymore".
Who mentioned Hamilton? This has nothing to do with Hamilton.
It's the stupid argument people use, and it is stupid, that somehow F1 teams should just 'deal with it' if they can't get the tyres to work. Totally forgetting that F1 constantly changes to political and market pressure. If you're team is in such a weak political position that the FIA/Bernie don't give a **** about yu then 'you deserve to lose'. You see my point. You can come at the 'deal with it' vibe from any angle.
All the teams who have got the tyres right, are stupid for allowing a spec-manufacturer to have the ability to change tyre spec mid-season. That's a weakness ont heir part as much as other teams weakness to design cars that can't deal with the tyres.
Please, anyone can see that you are from a mile away
OK, if you want to believe that that's fine. I thought the tyre situation was terrible even when Hamilton had a decent car last year.
but I am talking about from a sporting/language perspective. Anybody with even the briefest understanding of how F1 works would see where I am coming from and how stupid people sound when they infer it's somehow unfair Pirelli are changing to the tyres. And the fact all you can attack me with is some comment about Hamilton shows either you lack the understanding of what I am saying, or having no arguement against it.
Hamilton or no Hamilton, when a driver has to tell its engineer that he, "cant go any slower" in whats meant to be the pinnacle of motorsport, then there is definitely something wrong.
Whatever though, Mercedes have no idea themselves why the car is so pathetic on its tyres, so I am not gonna call for a witch hunt on Pirelli.
Ferrari and Lotus seem to have it figured it out, and thats already better than Vettel cruising to easy wins IMO. Rather have some competition than no competition at all.
Whatever though, Mercedes have no idea themselves why the car is so pathetic on its tyres, so I am not gonna call for a witch hunt on Pirelli.
Ferrari and Lotus seem to have it figured it out, and thats already better than Vettel cruising to easy wins IMO. Rather have some competition than no competition at all.
2013 Spanish Grand Prix
(178 posts, started )
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