I recently acquired a new PC (specs). While the CPU is much beefier than my previous system, the GPU is abysmal. Pretty much the only thing I can run is LFS, but I crave a massive amount of DayZ and Arma III.

I've set my eyes on the GeForce GTX 660 (more specs) as it's pretty much all the GPU I can get for my budget. I was wondering if there is anything specific I should check/worry about before I purchase it. I know I've got the right PCI port and will be opening the case up tomorrow just to double check that the card is going to fit, but the power requirement concerns me. What sort of effect would only having a 460 Watt power supply have when the 660 requires a minimum 450 Watts? How badly will this impact my performance?

If there's any good alternatives I should consider please tell me. Any help is useful.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3dfx_Interactive#Banshee

Only GPU anyone needs.

This is why we homebuild.

GT620: 50W TDP
GTX660: 140W TDP
(source: http://www.geeks3d.com/2009061 ... esign-power-tdp-database/)

You're talking about adding a full 90W load to a system that was built as cheaply as possible.

FWIW, I had a 9800GTX a while back, which had the same 140W TDP as the GTX660. I ran it with an Antec 530W PSU. While playing MW2 for about two hours, my computer would reboot itself. This was fairly consistent. All other games worked fine but I wasn't playing anything else as demanding as MW2. Replacing the PSU with a Seasonic X-750 resolved the issue. (FWIW, I also ran a GTX480, which has a 250W TDP, with the 750W PSU)

I suspect the ARMA engine will place a similarly high load on a GTX660, and thus your PSU as well.

F**k, exactly what I didn't want to here. Guess I'm going cheaper card with a new power supply. I'll report back when I have some new ideas.

edit: Thanks for the very informing post though!

Get a beefier, high quality PSU (650W Seasonic is enough for a single GPU system) and wait a month if you can. New Nvidia kepler refresh cards are just around the corner, the review NDA is ending this week infact. The 660 price will drop aswell since stores will sell out the remaining stock of old cards with discounts.

Form factor: uATX

IDK how easy you can get a uATX in murica, but in the netherlands it's damn hard.

...since I've built my last machine (that which I am typing this on).

However: The power-aspect from the previous posts is relevant. As much as is the problem of cooling. These pre-built systems are usually meant to be easily servicable // NOT easily upgradable.

The power your new gfx-card will suck-in in addition to what the rest of the machine is already consuming will need to be cooled off, as well. If not: Prepair for some major headaches either because of constant overheat-induced rebooting/self-throttling (which means your card's potential 'power' will remain un-tapped and - literally - wasted) OR because of the excess noise of ramped-up fan-speeds.

Take a good look at your case when opened. Your safest bet is to buy not the best performer in theoretical benchmarks by " +- 2% " - but to take a good loog at the power consumtion figures of the cards in your financial reach. Go for less consumtion with possably a good compatibility of the cards physical layout for an optional aftermarked bolt-on heatsink to improve cooling when needed later on.

Just my 2 cents.

A good resource for further investigation:
www.silentpcreview.com


edit:
the form factor "µATX" just means that the board doesn't stretch to a full standard-ATX-size BUT remains 100% compatible with every ATX-case. In layman's terms: a 'shortened' ATX-footprint. If the picture you posted is the correct for the internals of your machine - everything is o.k. - a standard graphics card will probably fit the single "PEG"-slot (PCI-express-graphics) on the board just fine. As long as the case has standard-ATX-width every not-overly-long cards will really fit just in.

The problematic part is the cooling - and that leads back to the all-important pc-enclosure, the big case holing all the internals inside. You not only need x-numers of fans and / or sufficient measure in air-flow, you also need the right direction of air-flow, reaching all the hottest bits in the right direction in order for them to work efficiently-enough to perform their job.

Most home-builds that are designed for silence tend to utilize the standard-ATX guideline of front-low in and up-the-back-out. However, I don't know the case's air-flow design: side-vents in the service-door and a solid-looking front usually tell the story of a messed-up airflow that just concentrates on the most-obvious stuff, meaning CPU and GPU - if you're lucky. E.g. harddrives will hardly benefit from those air-openings if the inside case-layout follows standard-configurations, which - that said - many pre-built chassis don't.

Hence my recommondation to look at power-consumtion first and just go for the card with the least amount of consumption (under load) that fits your performance requirements. You might just get away with the factory power supply when you do - and even save money. AND IF the psu goes bad, that might as well be because of the hotter air that gets sent through it rather than it not being capable of handling the power that the system draws off-it.
See my drift?

Quote from DrBen :

However: The power-aspect from the previous posts is relevant. As much as is the problem of cooling. These pre-built systems are usually meant to be easily servicable // NOT easily upgradable.

The power your new gfx-card will suck-in in addition to what the rest of the machine is already consuming will need to be cooled off, as well. If not: Prepair for some major headaches either because of constant overheat-induced rebooting/self-throttling (which means your card's potential 'power' will remain un-tapped and - literally - wasted) OR because of the excess noise of ramped-up fan-speeds.

The GTX 660 card he linked has a blower type cooler, so his internal case temperatures will change very little if at all with it, the case temps might even improve if the current card/cooler isn't a blower design.

Even non-reference third party coolers like Asus DirectCU that dump 100% of the heat inside wouldn't bring any heat issues unless they're being run in SLI.

Quote :

The GTX 660 card he linked has a blower type cooler,

that may just make it work, then. However: it will never be very quiet(to my standards, at least - talking experience).
Given the factory psu a lower-consumption gpu is still the best foundation for whatever type of cooling that may come with.

Simple rule of thumb: a newer chip-design will most-likely yield lower consumption == less problems while achieving about the same performance as an older design with 20~40W more consumption. Rule-of-thumb so to speak.

The whole graphics card - chase is one of the downsides of PC-gaming. You will never, ever stay on-top of it for very long. Gamemakers know how stupid their consumers are and thus release early - generating the need for a hot-running gpu all anew.

Why did you buy that pc if it needed to be upgraded so soon? Did you just not know what it was capable of until you took it home and played around with it?

I didn't buy it. My parents decided to bin our old PC because it was 'too slow' when really all it needed was a proper cleanup. I didn't know because I was at school. Had I, I would've chipped in a few hundred bucks to make sure it can do more than just check email, but now I'm stuck in the current situation.

Just to add some salt to the wound the GPU in our old PC, an 8800GT, actually benchmarks higher than the one in this PC.

edit: I'm fine with any noisy card because I either run off a very loud speaker system or use headphones.

I am pretty dumb when it comes to higher nerdism, but my rednecks logic got stuck there... i5, 4 cores, 10gb of ram, 1gb Vram...and only thing you can do is check email and run lfs? My pc is over 4 years old, specs doesn´t look as fancy as yours and yet still i can run BF3 on high settings smoothly and pretty much every other "high-end" game i´ve tested so far....

edit* oh i see.... a video card is yours bottleneck...

GT 620 is the killer there, having a 1GB framebuffer is completely irrelevant when the GPU itself is so slow. It's simply useless for any gaming other than solitaire.

I'd go with the 660 and replace the power supply if necessay. Your on the limits, sort of, but you may find its fine. The HP's are fairly solid policemen and it won't allow you to overclock or anything silly.

Be a great improvement but wait to see what happens to the prices.

Quote from CodeLyoko1 :

Form factor: uATX

IDK how easy you can get a uATX in murica, but in the netherlands it's damn hard.

It's very common over here.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ ... pertyCodeValue=757%3A7619

Quote from Forbin :

It's very common over here.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ ... pertyCodeValue=757%3A7619

I ment a uATX power supply

I think you're mixing up Mini-ITX form factor power supplies with uATX, because there's no such thing as a uATX PSU.

Quote from Matrixi :

I think you're mixing up Mini-ITX form factor power supplies with uATX, because there's no such thing as a uATX PSU.

I had a mini atx, not a mini itx. and the ATX PSU didn't fit on the uATX motherboard

Well, Micro ATX motherboards have totally standard power supply connections, so that doesn't make any sense. Even most Mini ITX mobos have 100% standard ATX power connections, with the exception of the ones meant purely for HTPC use that only have a single 12v DC jack in the rear with the rest of the I/O.

Edit: Mini ATX isn't the same uATX (micro ATX).

Quote from Rappa Z :

F**k, exactly what I didn't want to here. Guess I'm going cheaper card with a new power supply. I'll report back when I have some new ideas.

edit: Thanks for the very informing post though!

The 460W PSU is enough, I'm using a GTX670OC and a 3770k at 4,5Ghz with a Seasonic x560 PSU, and it only eats 350W from the wall at max, the a 460W PSU with your current config with a GTX660 is enough. Maybe later you should change it to a better quality one, but you don't have to care about it right now.

Quote from Matrixi :

Well, Micro ATX motherboards have totally standard power supply connections, so that doesn't make any sense. Even most Mini ITX mobos have 100% standard ATX power connections, with the exception of the ones meant purely for HTPC use that only have a single 12v DC jack in the rear with the rest of the I/O.

Edit: Mini ATX isn't the same uATX (micro ATX).

micro atx uses 4 less pins, my motherboard only had 20 because of that and a ATX PSU uses 24

Quote from CodeLyoko1 :

micro atx uses 4 less pins, my motherboard only had 20 because of that and a ATX PSU uses 24

You must have an ancient motherboard then, and it's not a micro ATX thing, as even old full size ATX boards used to have 20 pins on them. Anyhow, that's why the 24-pin ATX plug from the power supply can be separated to support legacy motherboards:

Quote from CodeLyoko1 :

micro atx uses 4 less pins, my motherboard only had 20 because of that and a ATX PSU uses 24

This isn't true. Old motherboards are used to have 20Pin connectors, nowadays even on the most basic motherboards you will have a 24 pin connector(Sample). However most of the times a 20Pin connector is enough for a motherboard what has a 24 pin connector.

Anyway the plus 4 pins is for the PCI-e slot, it gives more "craft" for the that line.

Quote from Matrixi :

You must have an ancient motherboard then, and it's not a micro ATX thing, as even old full size ATX boards used to have 20 pins on them. Anyhow, that's why the 24-pin ATX plug from the power supply can be separated to support legacy motherboards:

I had one, I've build my own now

Quote from CodeLyoko1 :

I ment a uATX power supply

Specs for the HP machine in the OP say the PSU is standard ATX:

Quote :

Power Supply

Internal 460W (100V-240V)

• Form Factor: internal ATX
  
• Total wattage: 460W
  
• Nominal input voltage range:
  • 100-127V/3A (50-60Hz)
    
  • 200-240V/2A (50-60Hz)
    
• Dimensions: 150mm x 140mm x 86mm (5.9 x 5.5 x 3.4 inches)
  
• * This power supply has an LED to indicate a possible failure condition when LED is off and power is connected.
  

There is no such thing as a uATX power supply.

Quote :

Some manufacturers and retailers incorrectly market SFX power supplies as µATX or MicroATX power supplies.
SFX has dimensions of 100 x 125 x 63.5mm with 60 mm fan.
(source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATX#SFX)

And, as others have stated, miniATX is not the same as microATX (aka uATX).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATX#Variants