Anybody else enjoy watching the BTCC at Donington today? I sat and watched the F1 before it and thought that was pretty good but after watching the BTCC today the F1 sucked.

All 3 races had crashes, bumps, offs, spins and anything else that is exiting in a race and I will definetely be watching the races for the rest of the season and look forward to it!

For anyone who watched it, What did you make of Turkingtons race 3 win? IMO it was fine, Fabrizio never defended untill Colin was on his way past and scene as they both cut the last part of the chicane no penaltys should be awarded.

I'm sure there will be pleanty of other incidents to be looked at though and I couldn't help but notice how Matt Neal was involved in most of them! Good stuff.

I didn't watch the race but I know what your talking about. F1 doesn't really appeal to me because there really isn't much overtaking or passing like there is in BTCC and WTCC, they have some of the best racing I have ever seen IMO.

Yes I saw it, was good

Sometimes I think the entire grid should just explode spontaneously in all sorts of directions once the lights go to green, just because it would save everyone a lot of time and energy

Not sure Turkington would have made the chicane, since it was still slippy, but Gio was responsible for the contact which rules out the chance of any penalty because Turkington can say the contact made him cut the chicane.

BTCC is alright if you like banger racing. Otherwise I see little point to it. It's a shame really because I used to be into it, now it just seems like a load of second rate drivers crashing into each other.

I'd rather have two or three classy overtaking moves in F1 than a whole race full of smashing people out of the way in BTCC.

Quote from Bawbag :

Anybody else enjoy watching the BTCC at Donington today? I sat and watched the F1 before it and thought that was pretty good but after watching the BTCC today the F1 sucked.

I couldn't agree more. I just wish the BTCC and other touring car champs had as much coverage as Snore-F1.

Quote from Bawbag :

Anybody else enjoy watching the BTCC at Donington today? I sat and watched the F1 before it and thought that was pretty good but after watching the BTCC today the F1 sucked.

All 3 races had crashes, bumps, offs, spins and anything else that is exiting in a race and I will definetely be watching the races for the rest of the season and look forward to it!

For anyone who watched it, What did you make of Turkingtons race 3 win? IMO it was fine, Fabrizio never defended untill Colin was on his way past and scene as they both cut the last part of the chicane no penaltys should be awarded.

I'm sure there will be pleanty of other incidents to be looked at though and I couldn't help but notice how Matt Neal was involved in most of them! Good stuff.

the last overtake was fine, turkington got clipped as he passed which basically made him cut across the grass, and giovinardi (cant spell it) followed him across, he shouldnt have left the door open anyway.

amazing race anyway, was hilarious after the restart in the rain, the first 4 drivers sliding basically exactly the same time.

also, the 4 way battle a bit down the pack was amazing close racing, what every racing series should try and emulate.

Quote from StewartFisher :

BTCC is alright if you like banger racing. Otherwise I see little point to it. It's a shame really because I used to be into it, now it just seems like a load of second rate drivers crashing into each other.

I'd rather have two or three classy overtaking moves in F1 than a whole race full of smashing people out of the way in BTCC.

Gotta to agree - a bunch of second rate drivers in crappy cars, punting each other off instead of overtaking cleanly, knowing they can get away with it isn't exactly hard. If the standard of driving was repeated in LFS everyone would get banned!!!

I'd rather watch F1 in between the sessions than watch BTCC.

F1 was rubbish compaired to todays BTCC. There was too much contact in this round but the 3rd race was really exciting to watch. First the red flag, then the weather, then the safty car, then the last corner incident. Quality

@ tristancliffe: If you don't like BTCC why make the effort to open up the thread? Then also make a post slagging off BTCC? If you dont like it, dont come into a thread that is something you hate and then stir trouble?

Just walk away.

Woah!!! I didn't start the thread, and it's perfectly allowed for me to state my opinion on something. If you don't like my opinion, or agree with it, that's fine, just accept it.

How utterly dull would life (or this thread) be if the only comments you got where positive ones? BTCC is a waste of time for me (I only watched it cos I was working on the Reynard whilst it was on), and if you don't agree then learn to cope. Simple.

Quote :

All 3 races had crashes, bumps, offs, spins and anything else that is exiting in a race

Funny, I always thought racing was about passing others, fighting for position and ultimately do that very fast. Guess I was wrong the last 28 years and I need to adopt a new style of LFS driving.

Quote from Bawbag :

Anybody else enjoy watching the BTCC at Donington today? I sat and watched the F1 before it and thought that was pretty good but after watching the BTCC today the F1 sucked.

All 3 races had crashes, bumps, offs, spins and anything else that is exiting in a race and I will definetely be watching the races for the rest of the season and look forward to it!

For anyone who watched it, What did you make of Turkingtons race 3 win? IMO it was fine, Fabrizio never defended untill Colin was on his way past and scene as they both cut the last part of the chicane no penaltys should be awarded.

I'm sure there will be pleanty of other incidents to be looked at though and I couldn't help but notice how Matt Neal was involved in most of them! Good stuff.

bunch of idiots, they could race normally but with FWD its easier to punt people out of the way. Ive seen cleaner racing on a demo server!

@tristan: Sorry for questioning your post, ive just had a really bad day and your one of the popular forum'ers which made you a idel target, so im sorry

Back OT: Just out of curiosity, are people baseing your posts on todays round or BTCC in general?

Quote from Hoellsen :

Funny, I always thought racing was about passing others, fighting for position and ultimately do that very fast. Guess I was wrong the last 28 years and I need to adopt a new style of LFS driving.

I never said that racing isn't about passing people and fighting for position so the only thing that is funny is that your posts replys to NOTHING that you quoted.

Yes that 4 way battle between the 2 privateer integras and the 2 Astras was great to watch to, was nice seeing the old guns showing them how to do it.

I think the thing with BTCC is that if you are clean and be ultra cautions and not touch anyone, then someone is going to get you from behind, so most of them treat each other as they are treated.

The nicest pas I saw was Sheddon getting past Turkington in race 2, was a nice pass and just a little contact.

My Dad's been racing at Mallory today, 10 clean, almost all close races with about 3 races of almost 30 cars, (does BTCC still have about a 12 car grid?). I think there was one bent car in the whole meeting and the racing was a lot better than the current BTCC banger racing. Anybody know more about the Legends car series? They're little miniture hot rods with Yamaha engines, pretty quick and provided some very close racing.

I wish that WTCC and BTCC got the attention F1 did. Touring cars is proper racing, not open wheelers.

And the BTCC isn't banger racing. Contact is part of the point of touring cars.

Quote from duke_toaster :

And the BTCC isn't banger racing. Contact is part of the point of touring cars.

No it's not, paint rubbing is part of the fun deliberate contact is totally unacceptable in any form of circuit racing and when it starts to get silly the racing gets worse, there's less proper racing and more cars end in the wall, which results in a downwards spiral resulting in small grids due to esculating costs.

No worries Seggons - thought the posting style was a little out of your ordinary. And my opinion is based on multiple viewings of BTCC over the last few years - maybe I just seem to watch the ones when they've all been drinking just before the race. I'll confess I didn't see race one or most of race two today.

rubbing in racing is ok, but not firing for no reason atall... ive seen a bit of that in the touring cars today.

I wish we would have something like the BTCC in Germany. Best racing what I have ever seen for long. A bit of colour exchange all the way but not too much fouls. In DTM or Formula 1 there is just an awful lot of money that is wasted, no wheel to wheel racing, nothing for the spectators.
In my opinion BTCC is best racing league of the world, really.....

Quote from tristancliffe :

Gotta to agree - a bunch of second rate drivers in crappy cars, punting each other off instead of overtaking cleanly, knowing they can get away with it isn't exactly hard. If the standard of driving was repeated in LFS everyone would get banned!!!

I'd rather watch F1 in between the sessions than watch BTCC.

And what F1 is...? "The pinnacle of motorsport" that completely lacks the most important thing which is as far as I know racing. If F1 doesn't have crappy drivers, at least over-rated drivers then.

Why do you say that? It's mostly the cars that limit overtaking, rather than the drivers. Of course, being some of the best drivers in the world (generally speaking) the overtaking is bound to be less, as everyone is of equal(ish) skill in equal(ish) cars.

Wasn't it Ron Dennis (or someone in the McLaren 'family') that said GP2 would be rubbish if it was just F1 drivers in it because they'd all be about the same speed?

BTCC is excellent, but it is not F1 and, really, should not be compared to it. If the F1 drivers weren't in open wheelers and could follow as close as the BTCC boys they'd have just as many bumps, offs etc. Why? Because noone out there gives a toss about the guy who came second (RE:MS v Damon Hill, MS v JV, MS @ Monaco, Alain Prost v Senna) The best (most successful/popular whatever) drivers of the last 2 decades in F1 have all been known to 'knock doors' with thier opponents to get an advantage. Im not condoneing it but I do think that when I race online that, sometimes, people don't risk enough in an overtake due to politeness. In real racing the nice guy finishes last (RE: DC, Gilles Villneuve, Stirling Moss - many others, unless your ONLY objective is to win then you won't)

Comparing BTCC to and single seater open wheel stuff is pointless, it requires a different mentality. Who remembers when Mansell had a shot? He was blindingly quick and hugely couragous just like we remembered but he couldn't hack it due to the amount of contact involved. Can't say I blame him but it does make for decent entertainment if not racing.

And I'd far sooner see GP2 and motoGP get F1 style coverage than BTCC or other tin tops.

Quote from tristancliffe :

Why do you say that? It's mostly the cars that limit overtaking, rather than the drivers. Of course, being some of the best drivers in the world (generally speaking) the overtaking is bound to be less, as everyone is of equal(ish) skill in equal(ish) cars.

Of course overtaking is not their fault because it's Max Mosley's fault. If you really think there are lots of actually "crappy" drivers in the mid-pack. It's just that because F1 has so long and amazing history, modern F1 drivers are seen as some kind of gods just because of the F1 reputation.

Quote :

Wasn't it Ron Dennis (or someone in the McLaren 'family') that said GP2 would be rubbish if it was just F1 drivers in it because they'd all be about the same speed?

What Dennis' visions of that kind of scenario has anything to do with this?

Time to post my favourite video of the golden era of the BTCC, back when all the drivers were good...but still hit each other lots

http://youtube.com/watch?v=AFfcNvwTk_U&search=btcc


EDIT: tristan, dare you to try overtaking a car at 140mph on slicks on a wet track :P

Quote from tristancliffe :

Wasn't it Ron Dennis (or someone in the McLaren 'family') that said GP2 would be rubbish if it was just F1 drivers in it because they'd all be about the same speed?

I'd say that's BS the I'd of thought some of the reasons why GP2 cars overtake more are:

1. They're physically smaller, don't forget this, it's why those Legends cars can race 4 wide because they make a Mini look big.

2. A lot less aerodynamic grip, so less loss of grip when in dirty air.

3. They're slower, like older F1 cars the cars are slower, really just like F3000 (FO8) if you think about how much you overtake in the FO8 compared to BF1 it shows (assuming we discount people who can't control them).

4. Shorter races, no pitstops don't play a big part.

5. They're all nutters who are trying so hard to get an F1 drive.

6. No TC means drivers make more mistakes and leave oportunities.

Read Chris Harris's column in Autocar a few weeks ago commenting on the British GP, along the lines of 'sit an alien at Becketts at 11am and tell him this is motorsport and ask him at the end of the day which he thought was the pinacle of the sport [GP2]'