i am really interested with the future of this view as i know many players in demo, i'd say more than 60% are using the forces view to gain advantage. and you can see this already because almost none of the servers have the ''force cockpit view'' mode activated. the ones which activated this had their servers left out in the cold. you can also go and ask in the servers, maybe some of them will say no but when you disable forces mode their times will drop.

will it still be available in hotlap mode? i think in hotlap mode cockpit view should be the only available view. its such a turn off for me to have this kind of thing in such a great sim.

i am also going faster using this view because there is more sight. as the hotlaps will be reset it will be logical to do this update at that time, probably with the tyre physics update, just as how the racing line is disabled, forces view should be disabled as well.

people generally use this view like cockpit + forces, getting the advantages of cockpit + huge sight. really a turn off. please devs take a look at this. i for one, will decide buying or not buying the game according to the situation of this mode after the updates. this is not in anyway a threatening or something. this is just my humble opinion i truly believe will make LFS even more awesome sim.

what i am saying is, make a new menu in the game, and make the forces view available only in there. it would be like an advanced setup making menu that you can test your car and that will have an interest among the players who dont like making their own setups. or for those who thinks the making of setups is hard.

You're pretty hot about this topic, ain't you? The last time the discussion ended in you questioning the words of really fast S2 guys saying that they don't use force mode. If this is directed to the devs, why don't you ask in the TEST PATCH thread instead of the General Discussion and effectively bump an old thread by creating a new one?

Oh, and just when I thought there were no more skeletons in the closet...

Quote from S.E.T.H :

i am really interested with the future of this view as i know many players in demo, i'd say more than 60% are using the forces view to gain advantage.

Do you have any evidence to back this claim up with or is it just your biased guess based on the fact that half the guys you're racing against are faster than you? What would be the point of removing the forces view when we have fully customizable camera that can even be controlled by some external application? If this feature provided such a huge advantage, people would just create a simple hack to get it back if it was removed.

Quote from MadCatX :

Oh, and just when I thought there were no more skeletons in the closet...


Do you have any evidence to back this claim up with or is it just your biased guess based on the fact that half the guys you're racing against are faster than you? What would be the point of removing the forces view when we have fully customizable camera that can even be controlled by some external application? If this feature provided such a huge advantage, people would just create a simple hack to get it back if it was removed.

probably because of the people like you a simple thread turns into a flaming war. at least, have the decency to play the game you think you know so much about. your last race was 3.5 years ago. and sadly for you, i am slow not anymore. i have 1.12.35 pb in blackwood fbm which i think you will never be able to do. and i am faster than 90% of the people i am racing with. and probably know about the server more than you and the people in it way more than you because i am coming here to race while you are coming here to pass your time probably you are bored so much.

i dont care about external hacks if you go this way you cant go out of it. because there are hacks can be done anywhere so there is no end to it.

about your fully customized camera, no camera ever gives the advantage to you that force mode + cockpit does. i am talking by my experience now.

Quote from S.E.T.H :

probably because of the people like you a simple thread turns into a flaming war. at least, have the decency to play the game you think you know so much about. your last race was 3.5 years ago. and sadly for you, i am slow not anymore. i have 1.12.35 pb in blackwood fbm which i think you will never be able to do. and i am faster than 90% of the people i am racing with. and probably know about the server more than you and the people in it way more than you because i am coming here to race while you are coming here to pass your time probably you are bored so much.

i dont care about external hacks if you go this way you cant go out of it. because there are hacks can be done anywhere so there is no end to it.

about your fully customized camera, no camera ever gives the advantage to you that force mode + cockpit does. i am talking by my experience now.

a) you present us unprooven numbers you personally experience - subjective perspective ≠ objective perspective, while constantly ignoring other people's experiences
b) you are countering with an "I am better than you ever will be so shut the **** up" attitude and thereby drag it down to a personal level.

Well done. It is not like I don't understand your point, but it seems to be pointless to continue this.

I think Sobis was right




EDIT: S.E.T.H

I think I solved the problem of understanding the case. I know now what you mean, but why you could not tell ALL the thoughts about this what you have, makes people talk and less trolling ( yes?)

Quote from UnknownMaster21 :

I think Sobis was right

F*** why did you dig this up?

I don't know what was into me at that time. Crap that's embarrasing.

Quote from S.E.T.H :

i am really interested with the future of this view as i know many players in demo, i'd say more than 60% are using the forces view to gain advantage.

Yep, like most games LFS has some little built-in tricks, 'easter eggs' and unlockable cheat modes.
examples: setting the correct combination of car colour, wheel colour and helmet colour gets you an extra 10 bhp. Posting at least ten times per day on the forum causes the draft you get from other cars to increase by 30%. Changing your ingame nick to 'ConspiracyTheorySucker' means that during collisions, it's the other cars that launch into orbit not you.

I'm sure there are others that I've not found... anyone?

BTW, don't forget to wear your helmet!

Quote from col :

I'm sure there are others that I've not found... anyone?

none of them are as affective as using force mode though

Seriously though Seth, you really think people get that much of an advantage using force view? Most of the people setting top times could drive the tracks blindfolded they have driven them that many times.

I use roof cam custom view, should this be banned too? Should turning wheel draw only off be mandatory in custom view?

Quote from Bmxtwins :

I use roof cam custom view, should this be banned

Yes.

I use crystal meth to help me stay awake so I can play LFS for 72 hours straight without sleep while remaining fairly cognizant yet hallucinating that the UF1s are baby hippopotamuses, should this be banned?

Quote from S.E.T.H :

i am also going faster using this view because there is more sight.

If it's such a big advantage why don't you just use it yourself all the time?

You should be proud that you are the chosen one that is being helped by the holy force mode

It's up to the driver to choose what kind of settings he likes to use. I like to use cockpit view most of my driving experience. If the game offers many other opportunities how to set up your game, why not use them? Forcing some new driver to use cockpit view all the time would be stupid. Not all drivers want to use the same exact thing over and over again. Diversity makes it more fun and enjoyable.

Quote from MousemanLV :

It's up to the driver to choose what kind of settings he likes to use. I like to use cockpit view most of my driving experience. If the game offers many other opportunities how to set up your game, why not use them? Forcing some new driver to use cockpit view all the time would be stupid. Not all drivers want to use the same exact thing over and over again. Diversity makes it more fun and enjoyable.

Right. But we all are talking about views here. some guy joking about helicopter view, you can use it and i dont think it should be banned because its a view. Forces is not a view and people use it as a view. its for setup making and analysing the car. you can use tire view without the body i dont care. its not that much advantage. the best view is the cockpit view where you can see the wheel and front tires. with force mode you see the driver, wheel, and tyres. best view you could possibly get, yet its not a view.

and unlike other types, its making all of the other cars look the same. so even this takes it to another level because its killing the realism. Just think i want to beat a guy who uses force mode, i'll be forced to use it as well just what happens when another guy watches me race in this sim? he'll call this bulls***. Where did all my skins go i used on my car? they are now moving sticks.

i shared some replays already some fool still joking about force mode giving advantage only to me

http://uppit.com/s07zpgrplyl4/proof_1.mpr
http://uppit.com/8p86v3vjzoeo/proof_2.mpr

Quote from S.E.T.H :

best view you could possibly get, yet its not a view.

Quote from S.E.T.H :

and unlike other types, its making all of the other cars look the same.

So if I use force mode the UF1 and the BF1 handle and look like exactly the same?

It's just plain stupid to claim this crap when you haven't tried any other cars except the demo bicycles..

Quote from ImudilaSkyline :

So if I use force mode the UF1 and the BF1 handle and look like exactly the same?

It's just plain stupid to claim this crap when you haven't tried any other cars except the demo bicycles..

where did i say it would handle the same? its really stupid to write without reading or thinking. why some people here have difficulty of comprehending?

and the view; althought what i meant same type cars on the track would look the same with forces view regardless of the skins used, even the different type of cars will look quite similar. and nobody really races in FCW enabled servers. so all in all if i am gonna use this sim, i am gonna have to use forces view, which i dont like at all.

why do you assume that all of your experiences on demo servers are valid for the whole community?
in all seriousness, before you brought up this topic, i have seldomly heard of anybody using the dreaded forces view.

really, how many of the top drivers, the proper aliens, the league winners, are known to use forces view?
does it give you an advantage, apart from your subjective opinion?

to be honest, i do think that you are making this whole thing up to a certain extent. a reason to clasp for why you are not on the same level as other drivers. i am eager to get some 'proof', as you mentioned, concerning the advantage of this very view. i yet have to see any.

edit: seth, take a look at the post below mine to get an idea on how to argue properly.

I don't think forces view or indeed any view is a particular advantage, but I do question views which put the camera somewhere other than where the driver's head is and also ones that let you see parts of the car (like the wheels) which are not visible from where the driver's head is.

I totally get the argument against cockpit view, we've been over it a hundred times, and I don't think you should have to run a ridiculously low fov or put the camera on the bonnet so that your monitor is not eaten up by interior of the car. However I've always favoured some limitation to view options because of the points in my first paragraph.

The Internet is a very strange place. Normally people would get bored of arguing with someone who doesn't want to have an actual discussion and rejects everybody who doesn't share their point of view and yet, this thread has so many posts in it...

Quote from Biohazard :

why do you assume that all of your experiences on demo servers are valid for the whole community?
in all seriousness, before you brought up this topic, i have seldomly heard of anybody using the dreaded forces view.

This is a very valid point. In all the years LFS has existed S.E.T.H is the only one to ever complain about force view mode - at least as far as I can remember. It's even stranger that he has no problem with external cameras and stuff which IMHO give you even better advantage due to much better spacial awareness.

Quote from S.E.T.H :

so all in all if i am gonna use this sim, i am gonna have to use forces view, which i dont like at all.

No, you do not have to. It's just your twisted point of view that makes you think that. The fact that you're trying to force you opinion onto the others is also not particularly nice. LFS is a game and games are to be enjoyed. If someone enjoys playing LFS in force view mode - who are you to tell them they can't? You could use the same argument against people who drive with mouse for instance. Some hotlappers have admitted to use ridiculously low ranges on their steering wheels (like 90° or less) which is also completely unrealistic. People who play LFS on a big TV screen or a multi-monitor setup also have an advantage over those who are forced to play on a tiny laptop - should LFS compensate for that too?

Quote from MadCatX :

If someone enjoys playing LFS in force view mode - who are you to tell them they can't? You could use the same argument against people who drive with mouse for instance.....

I guess he steers with a mouse as he wants to see the steering wheel.

Quote from S.E.T.H :

......the best view is the cockpit view where you can see the wheel and front tires. with force mode you see the driver, wheel, and tyres. best view you could possibly get, yet its not a view.

Which makes a mockery of....

Quote from S.E.T.H :

....and unlike other types, its making all of the other cars look the same. so even this takes it to another level because its killing the realism.

I say ban the mouse before killing off alternative veiws.

Quote from Anthoop :

I say ban the mouse before killing off alternative veiws.

:slap: