i tried to make a set to get XRR (i prefer that frontengined layout for better control on braking than fzr's snapping ass on the wall after excessive braking) competetive on aston national - its a good test with 3 crucial points, i think: very fast t1, long straights and tight hairpins (and chicane fcourse). i managed to make a set thats quick in corners and can be floored even earlier than FZR.

And strange thing happened several times - i first at second hairpin and was faster out of it, took a distance from fzr behind me and then was chased up uphill before next hairpin. n/a against turbo? the conclusion is that i think thats the way to balance those cars - fzr power and momentum line is too perfect. it could lack it on high revs, and maybe with just a bit less power/weight ratio it will strive to get its fat butt out of corner quicker than XRR.

here's set for you. i made it on 10lapper, havent tried it on longer distance. feel free to post tips or pick errors.

I don't see any reason to balance out these two cars. They are very well matched as it is. They are different cars with different characturistics.

The FZR is a very quick car that once setup correctly makes it one of the best cars in LFS atm.

theres a phrase:
"football is a game where 11 people each side kick ball for 90 minutes and in the end Germans win". This year they didnt.

look at the thread about balancing categories. its more interesting to have cars with balanced pros and cons, and no, they are not balanced.
btw: im interested if just ballasting (=lowering power/weight ratio) was efficient for that.

What car holds the AS. NAT WR? I havn't checked but I would bet it's an XRR that holds it. The XRR is a very fast car and can deal with the FZR in the corners. The FZR is a very good ont he straights but show it a corner and it struggles in comparison with the XRR.

Do you race these cars together on many other tracks? Or are you just AS. NAT. racers? Aston suites the FZR because of the long straights and fast sweeping corners. But put it on a narrower or a twistier track then it will struggle. I think they are well matched. But even so, look at real life GT races. The Astons are always winning and the Lambo's are always spinning out. Should they be re balanced? Adjusted to compensate for any advantages or disadvantages. If you don't like the car, change to a differenent one. Or if you like the car do what I did and adjust the settings, fettle and test untill you have a car that can beat all but the best. It's a hard thing to too and takes some work but within the world of LFS it's half the game.

Quote from Funnybear :

What car holds the AS. NAT WR? I havn't checked but I would bet it's an XRR that holds it. The XRR is a very fast car and can deal with the FZR in the corners. The FZR is a very good ont he straights but show it a corner and it struggles in comparison with the XRR.

xrr:1:41.27
fzr:1:39.96

There is only one track where the xrr is faster than the fzr, South City Sprint 2
xrr:0:33.92
fzr:0:34.15

On normal length tracks it's pretty standard that the fzr will be 1-1.5 seconds faster than the xrr. I think the fzr needs a bit of a castration, or a boost for the xrr/fxrs.

How to nerf the FZR? In enduros, cutting the fuel tank size to around 75l would do the trick. But in hotlapping, less power would work, or weighing it down.

Why castrate the FZR, only a try, but why not put a engine in the XRR like the FZR got, without Turbocharger

At least all the GTRs should come with similar tires. Can't deny that the turbos need some "calibration" and improvements

V/straight 6, small displacment, turbo for XRR/FXR. But on the other hadn they wouldn't be so simmilar to their road counterparts anymore.

EDIT: This topic would be better seated in the Improvements section.

It's not only performance of the car that you need to look at. I think the FZR rewards the driver more for the setting up and driving skills. It took me ages to get a good setup for the FZR. Whilst (Although this is a gross generalisation because I didn't really drive it) the XRR is easier to drive out the box.

If you take the FZR's performance bonus away you take away the reward for all FZR's drivers efforts in getting it to work properly.

The car is a right handful. There ain't no denying that. Let me have some fun with it now that I've managed to get it running with the front pointing the way I'm going.

Quote from Funnybear :

It's not only performance of the car that you need to look at. I think the FZR rewards the driver more for the setting up and driving skills. It took me ages to get a good setup for the FZR. Whilst (Although this is a gross generalisation because I didn't really drive it) the XRR is easier to drive out the box.

If you take the FZR's performance bonus away you take away the reward for all FZR's drivers efforts in getting it to work properly.

The car is a right handful. There ain't no denying that. Let me have some fun with it now that I've managed to get it running with the front pointing the way I'm going.

For me it has always been the XRR which is the tougher ride, but also the more rewarding. If they were equally fast, then the XRR would be easier. Now you can make more errors in the FZR and still be faster than a better driver in XRR. And the turbo lag in XRR can be quite surprizing when you are driving ir for the first times

I just don't like the way it looks . . .

TBH if there was a mid engined rear wheeler in LFS I would be driving that all the time. As it is I think the FZR is the closest thing.

Like I said I didn't actually drive the XRR for any real length of time. That turbo lag doesn't suit a mouser. Where as the Normally aspirated engine of the FZR allows a mouser to be alot smoother.

But I have still had some seriously close races with the XRR. You know when you are up against a good XRR driver. It was always the way, espiacially on the longer tracks like the Aston GP and the Grand Touring that you could put some distance over the XRR down the straights and the faster corners and then coming up to a complex of some slower corners . . WHAM. Right up your backside. I could never figure out where they got there corner speed from. Even when trying the same lines and speeds the FZR just can't do corners in the same way.