Quote from jaypur :

why? if the devs could make a good system to do that i can't see why is bad...

It is a bit tricky to argue against this, but what is a "good system" and how long would it take for scavier to design and program such a system with proper documentation etc? Who would do quality checks 8 hours a day to maintain the LFS standard? I too want more from LFS, because it acts like a drug in my veins , but I do not want my system ruined by low quality goods... .

Let's say an open source policy was implemented at some time, how could LFS keep the compability from one day to another if 20 people joins a race and only 2 has got the new additions? The netcode/network platform would turn into a nightmare... or?

True, to do that it had to be a nice well done open source dev system!


so... we still waiting for s3 ,



cheers!

Strange that so many write VR off so easily, "not interested"? I mean it has to be the next big thing, personally I'm not interested in 3D looking at a 2D plane with SBS techniques etc but with Oculus Rift coming that's when I get excited! The two independent views per eye and wide field of view really immerses you in the cockpit. You feel like you're really sitting inside the car and looking around with head tracking + positional tracking to look around that A-pillar will bring the experience to another level.

The current Rift dev kit has issues with low resolution but Dev kit 2 will alleviate some of that. Carmack even said that 4k displays are not that far away and from other interviews I've gathered that FullHD is just the base minimum. Hopefully they can source higher rez panels than that for the commercial version. It would be great if they could integrate nVidias new G-Sync so that fluctuating fps won't affect the fluidity of the view. With G-Sync you could have stutter and tear-free experience from anything from 30 fps to 144 fps (if they can get a more higher refresh panel than the normal 60Hz).

Oh and last note on Scawen's update, sounded he's starting the tyre model from scratch again... hopefully it's just the pessimist in me to reading the report...

Perhaps some of the people who watched 3D headsets flop quite badly in the 90s may still hold reservations.

Perhaps some people from the 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s don't give anything about putting on some mask which isolates you completely from other social real life interactions. If you want that you might as well move to NZ go sit in between the sheep, when needed you then still have some choice to relieve some sexual frustration while watching redtube3d on "the Rift".

Perhaps some people wait years for actual useful improvements and innovation. Tuned in to the wrong channel, it seems.

Quote from jaypur :

I see everyone is talking about graphics and all those things, but I don't know if it's just me, but I can't "feel" racing in any other racing game instead LFS, I don't know why, but it's just like this...
What do you think???? See ya!

The reason for that was in the fourth update in '04. It's subliminal messaging in the coding that makes you think that.
They had to fix that in the fifth update because of the bug in the patch that made some players go out and burn things instead of getting that "feel" you're talking about.

Seriously, I've never played rfactor or that GTR (?) game, but I have played others. And you're right. The other titles have all these graphics, not too bad physics and mods and all but they seem to lack something that LFS has.
Maybe it's because LFS never came across as stuffy like what other simulation games are. I NEVER thought of playing Grand Prix legends multi-player because of that. That hyper serious approach to playing kills everything for me. How could I get into the game if I had to constantly worry about getting banned for doing something that I had no idea was wrong?
In LFS, I don't know how many times I screwed up and caused a massive pile up at the start of races and instead of getting threatened with banning, I got razzed for it and we started over.
Yeah, for such a realistic game, there is a really cool casual approach to playing it online.

Quote from aaltomar :

Strange that so many write VR off so easily, "not interested"? I mean it has to be the next big thing

when it can be done right it will be worth it.

i was an early adopter of the 3d shutter glasses. at the time i played a lot of counter-strike and the 3d was really cool but it was much harder to be competitive in 3d than in 2d.


i don't think Scawen said he was starting the tire model over from scratch. if i read his message right, he was thinking of releasing the results he got to so far, without quite reaching his intended goals of being close to reality.

Quote from aaltomar :

Strange that so many write VR off so easily, "not interested"? I mean it has to be the next big thing, personally I'm not interested in 3D looking at a 2D plane with SBS techniques etc but with Oculus Rift coming that's when I get excited! The two independent views per eye and wide field of view really immerses you in the cockpit. You feel like you're really sitting inside the car and looking around with head tracking + positional tracking to look around that A-pillar will bring the experience to another level. ...

Some people have to realise that not everyone can afford things like 3d monitors/ headsets et all, also the current 3d implementations are very crude and post a serious health threat for people with epilepsy and vision problems. It's all well and good to make blanket generic claims that VR must be the next best thing . . . but it also won't be until it's been developed to the "hollywood" nothing ever goes wrong and is pixel perfect "movie standards we see in sci fi movies. IMHO
Shannon

Scawen, thanks for the lovely, unbelievably honest update!

Way more than we deserve.

Quote from ShannonN :

Some people have to realise that not everyone can afford things like 3d monitors/ headsets et all, also the current 3d implementations are very crude and post a serious health threat for people with epilepsy and vision problems. It's all well and good to make blanket generic claims that VR must be the next best thing . . . but it also won't be until it's been developed to the "hollywood" nothing ever goes wrong and is pixel perfect "movie standards we see in sci fi movies. IMHO
Shannon

Not everyone, but most can I you're an adult and hold a job. The dev kit is around 300 dollars, not that much more than an affordable monitor. The consumer Rift is not expected to be much more.

The current 3D implementations may be crude, but most who have real life experience with the Rift praise the results even at this early stage. With a better screen and positional tracking the result will be even better. I'd say for most people the consumer Rift will be enough to take the leap.

It doesn't have to be pixel perfect. Your brains will filter out the worst. Even the low resolution is something that the dev kit users can ignore after a while. It's not good enough now for serious racing as the resolution is just not good enough.

Of course you can hold the opinion that the Rift is not and will not be good enough, I don't really understand why you would be so pessimistic about it though. It may not be for people with epilepsy and vision problems but then again there are always things that are not for everyone. Maybe not for you either but with 95% certainty it is for me.

Quote from cargame.nl :

Perhaps some people from the 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s don't give anything about putting on some mask which isolates you completely from other social real life interactions. If you want that you might as well move to NZ go sit in between the sheep, when needed you then still have some choice to relieve some sexual frustration while watching redtube3d on "the Rift".

Perhaps some people wait years for actual useful improvements and innovation. Tuned in to the wrong channel, it seems.

Was this sarcasm or do you also think that putting on VR glasses are isolating you from social real life interactions? Like you would be socialiazing when racing...

You could say why even try to simulate racing while you could be socializing and going out with friends. Hell, why are we even frequenting this forum when we could be socializing outside...

Quote from aaltomar :

think that putting on VR glasses are isolating you from social real life interactions? [...] outside...

Not only think, I know.

I was not talking about outside, I was talking about the inside. In house. A lot of people do some racing or watching television and then at least you can still make some sort of eye contact. With these Rift nonsense or 3D glass technology in general you most probably will kill family life or a relation because you isolate yourself completely. And thats why 3D is not becoming a commercial success.. Never block the eyes.

Your not going to kill your social life with 3d virtual reality. It's just like any other thing you'd love to do, if you have passion for something you won't see what is happening around you when you are doing it. I love driving fast IRL and in virtual mode and I won't notice if people are talking to me while I'm doing it. VR will just enable me to get more out of the virtual version.

This text was coming from a guy who doesn't even own a facebook account because socially it's not as involved as i would like it to be, it's not real. When I interact with people, I do it face to face, but I also love to be able to cut out of it completely when I'm involved with a passion of mine.

If you're healthy you can differentiate these things.

With Oculus Rift, you may be more social than ever.

IMO if you've got headphones and a 3D display on your head, there's nothing to stop your mates from giving you the thrill of your life by stealthily tipping your chair over right when the race ends.

Quote from BigPeBe :

This text was coming from a guy who doesn't even own a facebook account because socially it's not as involved as i would like it to be

Well Facebook and Twitter are called social media, I don't know why... It's more like egocentric media .. It's only about yourself, yourself and yourself.
And all these people with their phones in front of their heads all day, refreshing their wall //offtopic.

.

You can get useful info if you know who to follow.

I'm mostly on G+ but the principle is the same.

And you can have a life.

You can also keep up with peoples farcebook posts, mindless twittering, and pinteresting creations. However, many of us can't be bothered. Great, Scrawen tweets !, do I follow this, no.
Do I expect progress on this project to be posted here, yes.

Social Media ? That's an oxymoron, It's not 'Social', it's simply giving your controllers a heads up regarding your current activity.

In the absence of agreement about its meaning, the term "social" is used in many different senses and regarded as a fuzzy concept,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social

its social as its "social media"as its a gathering where people can have contact.
Were not all the type who post everytime they been the lav ectL

its the best way to keep in contact with friends from all over the world and family

Quote from cargame.nl :

Not only think, I know.

I was not talking about outside, I was talking about the inside. In house. A lot of people do some racing or watching television and then at least you can still make some sort of eye contact. With these Rift nonsense or 3D glass technology in general you most probably will kill family life or a relation because you isolate yourself completely. And thats why 3D is not becoming a commercial success.. Never block the eyes.

Yes. Yes and masturbation creates psychopath cereal killers responsible for the fall of civilization and cosmic heat death. We see this already with e.g. isolation tank subculture.

Well... Says enough.

Just saw that:

Quote from Scawen :

Hello everyone!

The developers are all alive and working on LFS.
…
LFS income has gradually gone down as it always does between updates. That that has increased the urgency of finishing the tyre physics. So I plan to get down to it, make the appropriate approximations and sort out a good physically based system, with enough assumptions to make it workable, accepting that total realism is an unachievable goal.

Money talks…

Besides the extreme frustration while reading this part of the report (am I the only one?) I'm glad to see that the continuation of the game is a reality.

Now my question:
Are there plans to refresh the look of the game a little bit? some additional shaders, polygons on very outdated-looking car models?

...however: please take a look at the bright side of things.

Every perceivable incremental step that actually brings us (sim-racers) closer to what we are longing for is a step in the right direction. Evolution instead of revolution. That simple.

Unfortunately this means that Scawen will have to put in even more work if he so choses to steadily continue his search for realism.

Fact is: Computing power is limited. And methematical models that might already work when bench-testing -- thus studying minute detail by essentially "slowing down time" -- cannot always be "dummed down" sufficiently in order to work in real-time on a contemporary PC and still give satisfactory results. Remember racing is about racing other (ordinary) people with limited (or indeed regulated) equipment - on preferably a fair ground.

However: when Scawen sees a way to rejuvenate the physics of LFS that allows to stop the race-winning people to use all the catastrophically unrealistic set-ups as they are now -> we all win. Talking about damage to suspension etc. the amount of diff-lock and so on.
Oh and how about different tyre-compounds and/or wheel-rim sizes, tyre widths to chose from on the same car?

Would be nice to finally get some semi-realistic damage-model where we can actually see bits and pieces flying off the cars in a manner so that we can just about identify what kind of damage our competitors and ourselves suffer and know how that could affect the race that we are in. I'm strictly not talking about "pretty" damage, here! Just stuff that enhances the experience ten-fold!

Then there are brake-temps, engine water- and oil-temps -> even the often belittled rfactor has these things more-or-less. Losing lubrication and receiving catastrophic engine-failure just about three hairpins short of reaching the top of virtual Col de Turini: Been there, it was priceless!

What LFS badly needs right now is some more "broadband"-realism. On top of some changes - or should I rather say: Improvements to the tyre physics. Rain would be much appreciated! Water puddles building up, {english term for aquaplaning, anyone?}; Dirt/junk-buildup on the track as opposed to just on the individual cars' tyres, too (albeit I could wait for the latter stuff a little longer)

Buttom line: Any changes that makes it a good deal harder to win with unrealistic set-ups is a win-win in my book! And the outlook to new (track-) content is of course great, too!
Hopefully a few more narrow and corner-heavy, hilly tracks will be added in that respect as to to make low-downforce touring cars (turbo + LRF) more appealing and enjoyable to compete in!

Quote from DrBen :

Would be nice to finally get some semi-realistic damage-model where we can actually see bits and pieces flying off the cars in a manner so that we can just about identify what kind of damage our competitors and ourselves suffer and know how that could affect the race that we are in. I'm strictly not talking about "pretty" damage, here! Just stuff that enhances the experience ten-fold!

First of all - Nice Post

Regarding to your suggest Semi-realistic damage-model. I knew that i've read something about this.
And i found it

Quote from Scawen :

The remaining GTR updates are part of the needed updates for LFS S2 to lose the ALPHA tag. Some other updates that should mostly be done to get out of ALPHA are :

- Improve collision physics
- Break off wings instead of bending
- Finish and release Westhill updates
- Improve track shadow rendering
- RB4 / UF1 / UFR interiors

i'll hope that scawen didnt forget this And when its published to LFS that it will impact the Downforce

The focus should be more on the tyre physics + Scirocco + new tracks rather than a support for something that isn't even out yet and is not guaranteed that many people will buy it in the 1st generation anyway. Oculus Rift is supposed to come end of 2014, that's still over a year in the future. You still have plenty of time to implement the support if you finish the tyre physics in the next half year...

Scawen, you said yourself that you didn't get much done this whole year. Well, developing other (at this point) unnecessary things won't speed things up as far as I can see.

It is really disappointing to see so much development time wasted on this.

You announced the Scirocco in Dec 2008. Almost exactly 5 years later it still hasn't been released and instead you're working on some other features which maybe affects a small portion of people, but not even those before the end of 2014, rofl.

Quote from Crystal141192 :

The focus should be more on the tyre physics + Scirocco + new tracks rather than a support for something that isn't even out yet and is not guaranteed that many people will buy it in the 1st generation anyway. Oculus Rift is supposed to come end of 2014, that's still over a year in the future. You still have plenty of time to implement the support if you finish the tyre physics in the next half year...

Scawen, you said yourself that you didn't get much done this whole year. Well, developing other (at this point) unnecessary things won't speed things up as far as I can see.

It is really disappointing to see so much development time wasted on this.

You announced the Scirocco in Dec 2008. Almost exactly 5 years later it still hasn't been released and instead you're working on some other features which maybe affects a small portion of people, but not even those before the end of 2014, rofl.

they are not specifically working on the oculus. they are working on 3d in general. It should not take a lot of time tough. I agree on that.

Also about the oculus, it isn't supposed to come at the end of 2014. The release it when it's finished. It is even possible that it comes out end 2013, altough highely unlikely.