I can tell this is going to be the highlight of the season

Quote from N I K I :

Martin Brundle, stop whining about track limits!

I think it deserves to be discussed at least once during every broadcast on every race weekend until the FIA take a real position on it. It's been a brewing issue for a long time now, but finally it's getting some much-needed attention. There should be an automated system that detects when cars leave the track so that repeated offenders can be punished.

The FIA's current position (which has been teased and will be played in full during Sky's pre-race build-up tomorrow in an interview with Charlie Whiting) is that leaving the track is legal because they think that drivers actually lose time (due to the astroturf, for example). That this is the FIA's official position is completely ludicrous. Charlie Whiting is either totally naive (in thinking that drivers would repeatedly leave the track if it actually cost them time) or he's a liar (in that he knows they gain time but he doesn't want to admit because then they'd have to spend time and money fixing the problem).

I have strong feelings about track limits (not just in F1, but in every series), so I'm glad they're finally getting some attention. I think it's really disturbing that a situation like the video from Webber's Red Bull in Canada (where the broken treadmarks from the wheelspinning car was assumed by some to be a sign of traction control) get a lot of attention and conspiracy theory nonsense but the blatant disregard for track limits tends to sail past, either because "everyone does it" or because "it doesn't really matter".

amp: Charly is also a secret LFS'er, ergo 2 wheels on curb (curb is part of the racetrack) for president.
Brundle: once again!! stop moaning, groaning every faking 60seconds how someone drove country miles and gained airplane speed off the race track!

Quote from N I K I :

amp: Charly is also a secret LFS'er, ergo 2 wheels on curb (curb is part of the racetrack) for president.

The white line defines the track limit.

Quote from FIA :

20.2 Drivers must use the track at all times. For the avoidance of doubt the white lines defining the track edges are considered to be part of the track but the kerbs are not.
A driver will be judged to have left the track if no part of the car remains in contact with the track.
Should a car leave the track the driver may rejoin, however, this may only be done when it is safe to do so and without gaining any advantage.
A driver may not deliberately leave the track without justifiable reason.

Source

Quote from N I K I :

Brundle: once again!! stop moaning, groaning every faking 60seconds how someone drove country miles and gained airplane speed off the race track!

Brundle, like most people who've been watching racing for decades, rightly feels that people leaving the track with 4 tyres to gain advantage should be considered cheating. The fact that it happens on such a regular basis and is given the OK by the officials is mindblowing.

nah, white line means nothing. When you're racing you just go for what's the quickest thru corner. Not how to be on white line. I personally loved for example Austria 2003 or Hockenheimring T1s where they just bluntly go wide off the corner to carry the speed. It's more attractive in my eyes, it's quicker and I like it. It's also more edgy and more exciting and requires pair of balls. Anything asphalted or curbed is track for me. Shall it not be used then consider making the whole thing a little bit less safe. One thing is when it's real danger and another when it's a rule.

Besides, it's a matter of taste and opinion. The dust will settle soon enough anyway. It's just horrendous the ammount of moaning he puts into it. Puncture the bastards tires so he can worry about that.

Quote from N I K I :

nah, white line means nothing. When you're racing you just go for what's the quickest thru corner. Not how to be on white line. I personally loved for example Austria 2003 or Hockenheimring T1s where they just bluntly go wide off the corner to carry the speed.

Yeah, that's great! How about just cutting through all the chicanes too? I mean, you could save like 10 secs at Suzuka just by cutting through the last chicane!

Quote from N I K I :

Anything asphalted or curbed is track for me. Shall it not be used then consider making the whole thing a little bit less safe since one thing is when it's real danger and another when it's a rule.

Another good idea! Let's make all the kerbs and run-off areas dangerous because the "best" drivers in the world can't follow rules.

Quote from N I K I :

Besides, it's a matter of taste and opinion.

No, it's a matter of rules. See above.

Quote from amp88 :

I mean, you could save like 10 secs at Suzuka just by cutting through the last chicane!

It would make an awesome track even awesomerrrrr.

Race drivers are designed to push the limit of the track. If you want them to stop using asphalt then turn it into grass or gravel and stop whining. If you give them the asphalt to run off onto, they're gonna do it. That's like putting candy in a childs hand, turning your back and expect it to be there when you look at them again.

Quote from BlueFlame :

Race drivers are designed to push the limit of the track. If you want them to stop using asphalt then turn it into grass or gravel and stop whining. If you give them the asphalt to run off onto, they're gonna do it. That's like putting candy in a childs hand, turning your back and expect it to be there when you look at them again.

The rules are black and white. If they were enforced correctly there wouldn't be a problem. If a driver weaves repeatedly to try and hold his position he should be penalised. If a driver causes accidents with dangerous driving he should be penalised. If he goes beyond track limits to gain an advantage he should be penalised (unless there are mitigating circumstances, as there were in the Webber/Kobayashi overtake in Singapore 2012). To say that unless there is a physical reason not to leave the track (e.g. making the run-off areas very slippery) is sheer stupidity - there shouldn't have to be a physical danger associated with an activity to stop drivers cheating.

I don't really mind the drivers going outside the white lines on corner exit unless they go way way off the track and not just outside the outer white line for few inches. Cutting the corners is different when you cut the corner at the apex. On his pole lap vettel went outside the white line 3 times and was on the white line 2 more times. Here are the 3 over the white line parts:




That 2nd pic shows him cutting the corner apex which is what I personally do not want to see. The rest is fine. That is a very difficult and blind corner though so I would not want the tragicomical incident system from iracing where it is down to one pixel whether you were perfectly ok or unsafe...

Going wide on corner exits happens on every track. It happens in monza in the lesmos, in spa in t9 and so forth. Or the old A1 ring.

that second one was an inside of a corner wasn't it?

They said going wide was okay for qualifying but going on the inside isn't.

And if Hamilton or Grosjean did that? Penalty.

Quote from BlueFlame :

And if Hamilton or Grosjean did that? Penalty.

Or webber,rosberg,button,perez,raikkonen,massa,alonso,hulkenberg,maldonado,bottas etc

It was clarified, so no, if Vettel used more track, gained an advantage but no penalty, its means he did a better job.

Also, I think part of the problem with the debate is that if you make a mistake, it is hard to judge exactly where a line is at 200km/h in a corner.

But its the same for everyone and there isnt a stupid penalty risk like what happened to Grosjean in Hungary, so maybe its the better of the 2 less than perfect scenarios

Quote from IsaacPrice :

It was clarified, so no, if Vettel used more track, gained an advantage but no penalty, its means he did a better job.

Also, I think part of the problem with the debate is that if you make a mistake, it is hard to judge exactly where a line is at 200km/h in a corner.

But its the same for everyone and there isnt a stupid penalty risk like what happened to Grosjean in Hungary, so maybe its the better of the 2 less than perfect scenarios

look at the picture, it was cutting the apex, that is blatant cutting.

going wide to keep momentum is different, but cutting the apex is a no no in every case.

Did I just hear Vettel's engineer saying to Seb that "Mark's done us a favor, he's out of this race"?!?!

Not sure what u have heard but the correct version was sth like: "Are u aware that Mark's out of the race?"

GG Vettel, your 2013 champion.

Wont he get a penalty for crossing the start/finish line twice?

Finally crowd didn't boo him. I liked the donuts myself too.

That was a nice way to give sth more for the crowd and according to Finnish Broadcast he would get sth like 20 sec penalty for crossing the finish line twice but it won't matter even to the race results

Stunning overtake on Ricciardo!

Congratulations Vettel, well deserved championship

Alan Permane: "Kimi, get the f*ck out of the way!"

Kimi: "Don't u f***ing shout at me!"

team-spirit seems to be high at Lotus

Quote from Mustafur :

look at the picture, it was cutting the apex, that is blatant cutting.

It's amazing some can't differ between inside and outside of a corner. Picture 2 is clearly the exit (outside) of the long right-hander.

Good to see Vettel being four times world champion. What will people say if he manages to clinch a 5th next year after the majority have their hopes on the rules change.