Quote from tristancliffe :

The cost cap, if workable, is very important, and should have been done years ago.

It wasn't done years ago because it is unworkable.

They could look towards MotoGP. Factories now produce a slightly lower spec bike (Honda's Production Racer is only different to the works bike in respect of the ECU and the valves), but these "Open" class bikes get other advantages = more fuel, more engines, softer tyres. You can buy a HRC bike and have it updated for two seasons for EUR 1.3m. Peanuts.

In F1, adopt the privateer concept. Marussia buys chassis from McLaren, pops an engine in and goes racing. They use their R&D budget to do this so it is not wasted developing a shit car and the big teams get some money back on their much better R&D.

Do that, and we'll be back to pre-qualifying within 3 years.

double point, no sense no. i join f1 for final race. win race, finish 10 in championship. win millions

Perez and me go eat mexican food in little restaurant which gives us bad stomach pains.

Double points is really stupid for F1. Can't believe they're going with it.

Quote from DeadWolfBones :

Double points is really stupid for F1. Can't believe they're going with it.

Red Bull felt that a final race wrestling tournament might cause Vettel to lose. This was the next best option.

Points.. car numbers.. penalties.. low nose cones.. stepped noses.. v6t engines.. not sound as good as awesome v12/v10 engines... winge winge winge winge winge winge

Does this shit really matter? Are there really people out there who decide if they watch the sport over these issues?

The only issues are nursing cars for 2 hours. In all of time and history and forms of motorsport, there must be management of tyres and fuel during a race (most forms of racing, dont get up me), but the tyres at the moment are silly, thats as far as it goes.

Ill still watch F1 as i watch all forms of motorsport even if drivers had to wear pink tutus and flowers..

I agree, it should be down to driver ability not how well the car handles tyre wear.

The points are a big deal. They change results.

Right now it's one race, but how long until Monaco is double points? Or Silverstone? Or Spa? Or another Tilkedrome with a ton of money and influence? Imagine if promoters were straight up given the option to pay to make their race worth more points. Heck, you don't even need to imagine that hard because that's almost what has happened here.

The rest aren't huge things, but after what was a pretty boring season it's these kinds of things that finally irk people enough to stop watching.

Quote from Rappa Z :

The points are a big deal. They change results.

Right now it's one race, but how long until Monaco is double points? Or Silverstone? Or Spa? Or another Tilkedrome with a ton of money and influence? Imagine if promoters were straight up given the option to pay to make their race worth more points. Heck, you don't even need to imagine that hard because that's almost what has happened here.

The rest aren't huge things, but after what was a pretty boring season it's these kinds of things that finally irk people enough to stop watching.

I see your point mate.

Well what is truly the big deal... like, why not? Other motorsports do it. Im trying to think why it would be a problem. It would increase performance and racing at those certian events. People will push more and work harder for the double points rounds. It adds more prize to win them. It gives F1 more of a rush on the weekend cause everone wants the whopping 50 points.

It would only have changed 3 championships in the last 20+ years, and in all of those cases it wouldn't have been like it was undeserved. And it's fairly debatable whether even those would have changed. I think the main point of it is that it's still possible for it to change, possible to score those points - so it will add intrigue to other races of the season. That's the logic behind it, and it makes sense I guess.

I don't like it though, the F1 I loved since I was a kid was all about hardcore competition, with a tyre war, engine development, refuelling etc. Obviously a lot of that is unsustainable, but if you're bringing in a budget cap, surely a lot of the stuff that was removed because it would cause an issue to the budget doesn't need to be there anymore. In the recent climate, it has slowly become more and more about "entertainment" and getting TV numbers, because the changes arent what the fans are generally wanting either, looking around at various forums etc. The modern F1 is more appealing for the type of guy who watches the first lap to see if theres a crash, then switches off.

I really don't think it would be that bad either, considering other series do it, if they implemented it right.

Like, it would make sense to do the 'crown jewel' races (Silverstone, Spa, Monza, Monaco, maybe season ender), because those are the real prestigious events. Only problem is, people would complain that they are all European races.

So, maybe one double payout per continent would be better (Melbourne, Suzuka, Monaco, Abu Dhabi, Montreal, Brazil). But, at that point, you're getting a lot of races that are worth double, sort of spoiling the specialty. Maybe it would work better if the rewards were only say 1.5x payout with this many races. Also, with one per continent, you could theoretically cycle between tracks that get the double, although this means some tracks receive it every year or two 2 while others get it only every 9 years.

I just can't help but shake the feeling that this decision was largely based on a few people with substantial power and money wanting to try and validate their race rather than genuinely wanting to keep it interesting (could easily end up being a India, Turkey, Korea, or Fuji). I admit I would still be upset if it was Brazil getting double points as the season closer, but I wouldn't be this mad.

Double points for the last race. Just dumb. Dumb dumb dumb. Nobody wanted the season to end in abu boring dhabi and even less I'd imagine anyone wanted double points for it. I really hope it backfires horribly and instead of vettel winning by 100 points he will win the championship by 125 points.

Driver numbers, meh. I'd guess I need to prepare for all the touchy stories about how some driver really wanted that number... wonder how many drivers want the number 2 just because it was the last number senna used

Personally I'd pick 13 just because I could.

I think double points is fine. It heats up the bottom end constructor championship.

Quote from Bmxtwins :

I think double points is fine. It heats up the bottom end constructor championship.

Double of 0 is still 0.

Posted this over in the WEC thread but I'll dump it here too because it applies.

Quote :

Interesting idea pertaining to Ferrari...

With the FIA planning to place a budget cap on F1 teams, Ferrari could potentially divert their excess funds to a WEC effort. This effort uses and develops an engine built as close to F1 spec as possible (they said they wanted to use a derivative anyway). Ferrari can then take the WEC engine development and dump it back into the F1 car, allowing them to work on the engine without billing it to their limited budget.

edit: Maths, with many assumptions.

Quote :

So I was looking around Reddit earlier and someone mentioned that Ferrari would be in full support of giving double points to Abu Dhabi because any extra exposure for the track is extra exposure for Ferrari World. In all honesty, probably true but only because it's a good marketing decision. Cheeky, but the exact cleverness you would expect from Ferrari.

Then I thought about the budget cap and how Ferrari must certainly be adamantly opposed to it. Maybe, they aren't opposed though. Maybe, thanks to the WEC, they have already found a loophole. Indeed, I think they have.

Assume Ferrari has a budget of £250 million ($411 million), a fortune that is actually less than their known 2003 budget. Lets say the FIA set a budget cap of £120 million ($147 million), massive compared to the £25 million ($41 million) car planned in 2009. This leaves Ferrari with £130 million ($214 million) to spend on a rumored WEC effort. For reference, Audi is estimated to spend between £125-£180 million ($205-296 million). So Ferrari could easily fund a decent WEC effort with their leftover F1 budget.

Here's where the the fun begins. Ferrari said they want to run their WEC effort on a F1 derived engine. So, what if they use and develop a F1 engine (as close as they can get, at least) like they did with the 333SP? Well, Ferrari develops that as-close-to-F1 engine in the WEC, then shares all their development with the F1 team, free of charge. Now the F1 team has millions of dollars worth of engine development, but not one cent of it is on their budget. The top teams currently spend roughly £79 million ($150 million) on engine development each year. This means Ferrari could operate on a budget that would easily be over 60% of their original budget (my maths say this could be as much as 80% if Ferrari continued to spend £79 million, but this would lead to reduced development on the rest of the WEC car). Compare that to the 52% the FIA rules specified. As an added bonus, not one other team in F1 has a WEC effort (and maybe 2 or 3 could ever afford it), so Ferrari is left as the only team able to use this loophole.

It's all crazy and based on many assumptions, I know, but I find it hard to believe this hasn't crossed their minds in Maranello.

Of course the F1 teams will find loopholes in the budget plans. Setting up separate business that are designed to make a loss so you can sub-contract them development and so on. The FIA can't get nose regulations correct, so I don't see how they can afford decent financial lawyers.

Quote from Intrepid :

Of course the F1 teams will find loopholes in the budget plans. Setting up separate business that are designed to make a loss so you can sub-contract them development and so on. The FIA can't get nose regulations correct, so I don't see how they can afford decent financial lawyers.

They are limiting budgets, not profits.

Quote from Rappa Z :

Posted this over in the WEC thread but I'll dump it here too because it applies.


edit: Maths, with many assumptions.

But if that WEC effort was for the purpose of F1 surely the Fia would count that into expenditure, to be honest if
Ferrari did that it would be obvious instantly and you think the FIA wouldn't address it immediately if it happened, i don't think Ferrari would even attempt it knowing this to be the case.

Quote from Mustafur :

They are limiting budgets, not profits.

I am saying what is stopping Christian Horner setting up a company in his wife's name to develop hydraulic components? RedBull sub-contract the development of the hydraulic components to this company at a very good price. This company makes a loss, but so what, it's not owned by RedBull. All that turns up on the account book for RedBull is they spent £x on hydraulic components. I am just giving a example of a possible loophole that if some very smart f1 team wanted to they could exploit (in a less obvious way of course)

Some of the best government lawyers can't catch up with 'tax evaders' what makes the FIA think they can impose these regulations.

Quote from dawesdust_12 :

Double of 0 is still 0.

Williams/Sauber/Force India range. Caterham and Marussia shouldnt even be on the grid.

Quote from Bmxtwins :

Caterham and Marussia shouldnt even be on the grid.

Why?

As for the points, Martin Brundle summed it up as "an answer to a question that no one was asking".

Seems about right.

So someone has an epic race at Brazil in the rain comes back from last on the grid after a horrid qualy only to come second in Abu Dhabi and lose the championship to someone who ran away from pole position and didn't fight another car on track. Great..

RBR to suffer initial poor performance in 2014 season, then with 6 successive race wins Vettel will in the final round overturn a 47 point deficit to Alonso as he gets taken out by Mald'oh.

Quote from sinbad :

RBR to suffer initial poor performance in 2014 season, then with 6 successive race wins Vettel will in the final round overturn a 47 point deficit to Alonso as he gets taken out by Mald'oh.

Just another BS scenario that could so easily be played out next season. I think I'll geniunely stop watching F1. I'll keep my eye on the results but I feel it's time to protest the way F1 is headed in the only way we can control. Watch Moto GP instead guys, I garuntee it will be 10x more exciting over the course of the season.

The WCC has it even worse than the WDC. If a team goes 1-2 at Abu Dhabi, that's 86 points, equivalent to 14% of Red Bull's 596 points this year.