I'd also vote to keep the track original.

The main problem in my opinion with the original track, are the tires at the end of the chicane. Those might catch 'innocent' drivers, if a car in front of them spun, and damage their cars or something, which is not nice.

Imo, this solution doesnt really improve that situation enough to put this chicane there. And as said before... the middle kerb does become a weird thing to take now and might even cause more troubles. Another thing which would make it a bit more tricky, is the braking zone before the chicane. As i mentioned on TS the kerb suddenly stops and only if you focus on the right line, you wont touch the grass and spin out. It is a small barrier between of and on track and for me a bit unclear as you focus on the apex at exactly the same time.

Personally i don't like that original chicane either, but arguements like shock absorber damage or people rolling their cars there are totally invalid imo. I think it's part of a 12hour race to build a decent set which is not affected that much by the way you are taking the kerbs, it's the driver's or team's responsibility. To not roll the car is the driver's problem and not the organisation's. Also since it's a 12 hour race.. when you have a GT2 car in front of you or a slower GT1 car, think ahead and don't just try to it pass the same second as you close up on him. Often enough the behavior of the car in track lets you know what you can expect so take a bit of distance i'd say.

Quote from kochomoch :

I did not recieved PM but from the name of Fast And Crazy team we say - No

You haven't received the PM because they haven't been sent yet.

Quote from Kristi :

If the layout was mode for Deko and not for any of the the drivers, then why not use that dictatorist mentality and put it in the race without casting any of the votes?

So since I made a layout for deko, I should be able to just pass it straight into the race? Doesn't that sound completely unfair? Even if I had that ability, I wouldn't want to do it.

Quote :

Do you think Ray's posts are better constructed, despite all of the bad statements regards the turn?

If someone made a constructive post that was against it, then that's fine. As I said previously I have no opinion on how this goes. Yes I made the layout, but that doesn't mean I stand behind it. I simply made something to deko's specifications that he talked to me with, and then modified it a few times with people in the server.

Quote from PMD9409 :

If someone made a constructive post that was against it, then that's fine.

There are quite a few of those?

Quote from ImudilaSkyline :

There are quite a few of those?

Where am I denying that?

While I am all for layouts to be added onto tracks to make things more interesting, for example in FE4 or KY3b, I do think this is a little unnecessary. As mentioned, there have been countless events held here for years using this chicane and there has never been a huge issue. After a few laps or at most a stint things get stretched out and for me in the events I've been in, so long as common sense is used there has never been an issue. The only issue I've ever had there is when my rears popped in the middle of the corner in my first 24h race, which was just unlucky and nothing to do with the corner. No layout would have saved me from the crash I then had.

It's pretty clear where my vote will lie. I can see the Pro's and appreciate Phil for taking time out to make the layout to add some spice but unfortunately I think it's completely unneeded. The Con's outweigh the Pro's in my opinion and therefore I'll be voting no.

Con's:
- FPS issues, wont name names but someone said if you have FPS issues then buy a new PC. Sure, feel free to buy me one. And my team mates while you're at it.
- The nature of the corner makes it more likely for you to jump the throttle too early and end up in the tyres anyway, not to mention scattering the newly added objects.
- It's not difficult for a GT1 to back off a little if it is behind a GT2 approaching the corner since they will gain the time lost back by a small slipstream across the start finish straight.
- In GT1 this is one of the few sectors where XRR has an advantage over the FZR, please don't take that away from us!
- What's wrong with having a corner that will punish you for a drop in concentration? It's realistic!
- The nature of the curb on the inside actually means if you are following another car, you can turn in earlier, get on the curb and still find enough grip to power through the corner leading to possible overtaking opportunities in T1. Tried and tested for years in the BF1, FOX and GT1/2 categories.
- If you do happen to have a mistake and plow into the tyres or outside wall from pushing too hard then tough. Luckily the pitlane is seconds away and you can repair the car without having to drive half a lap with a wrecked car.
- Poles and etc can sometimes be fairly glitchy, leading to completely unrealistic reactions when you hit them such as damage or even pointing you in the wrong direction.

Pro's
- Slowing everything down does mean less chance of a 'huge' accident, although I am yet to see one happen in this corner.
- A new challenge, it's always nice to have something new especially in LFS where everything is stagnant.
- Allows a corner where the FZR can possibly gain time on the XRR in the GT2 category, untested this theory though.
- On the constructive side, sure it's a nice idea. How about using something lighter such as stopping people destroy the curbs in an unrealistic fashion such as poles or bails on the inside of the first apex and on the grass on the inside of the middle part? Worked for AMG for years on their AS3 GT2 servers.

I've tried to be as constructive as possible, if it still hurts your feelings I apologise in advance.

When there will be official statement about what happend with chic ? :O

Quote from Intrex1020 :

When there will be official statement about what happend with chic ? :O

Votes are due by 18:00 UTC on Tuesday. Decision shortly thereafter.


I want to see actual testing take place on the series server, otherwise I will call the vote invalid and simply use my judgement based on what I saw during our testing while building the chicane and what has been said

Quote from dekojester :

Votes are due by 18:00 UTC on Tuesday. Decision shortly thereafter.


I want to see actual testing take place on the series server, otherwise I will call the vote invalid and simply use my judgement based on what I saw during our testing while building the chicane and what has been said

So you're forcing people to test in public and get their setups ripped? Does testing the layout offline make their opinion less valid?

Quote from IsaacPrice :

So you're forcing people to test in public and get their setups ripped?

they dont have to use lastest version, or just smth from CG e.g CG was driving on Q set :P

If you expect people to do proper testing online on a public server, deliberately with a setup they can improve, on a layout that they don't enjoy driving - you've got a bit too high expectations

Quote from IsaacPrice :

So you're forcing people to test in public and get their setups ripped? Does testing the layout offline make their opinion less valid?

No point in bringing that up again.

Sure there is, you can't force people to practice on an online server when you won't punish people who steal your sets. I know certain people are of the attitude that it's good to accuse others of stealing their setups, but are perfectly happy to steal others.

Any one that is still stealing sets with the amount of sets being given out now is kind of sad. Momo has offered his set a few times to everyone, Dennis shares his GT1 base set. Not to mention most sets are on SG anyways. Plus the sets you can get from Cargame racing every day.

It's still perfectly possible, and not policed at all - so you can't expect people to take kindly to being forced into driving online - read the crucial word there, forced. When theres a way to gain a better setup by clicking 2 buttons people will always be tempted to do it, and some people will do it, some won't. Sadly I know for a fact after being asked by team mates of the drivers in question if I've ever sent X setup to that driver that it goes on.

Quote from IsaacPrice :

...and not policed at all...

Just curious - how do you expect to "police" it?

It's not possible to effectively police it. Even if Deko ripped everyones setups, there would be no way to prove who the setup originally belonged to was, obviously - which is a shame. My point was just you can't force people to drive online on a public server to police whether people are testing the layout properly either because of that.

Forgive me for firmly believing that to give an answer to a question you need to be knowledgeable about the subject matter that the question is. Simply put, saying that I want to see testing done in the server makes it so that I can track things more easily and not have to ask for proof from the 23 teams, I just look at the server logs and a few MPRs.

It's appalling that anyone would feel the need to "hide" their setups because of the risk of setup stealing. I guarantee you that if I could find out who is and was stealing setups, they would face a hell of a wrath from me. Stealing setups is extreme cowardice, such that I'd be nicer on them if they honourably confessed right here, instead of being the dishonourable cowards they are.

If no one is actually stealing setups, then it's just paranoia.



The lack of activity on the server the last two days makes it seem that people are basing their decision off of the pictures and a snap reaction, and the reason I'm asking for more public testing. I see in the Airio recent players log that there have been 24 (including me) people who have left the server in the past 24 hours. I know that most of those were still on that list even yesterday around this time when I checked the list.


The other aim of public testing is to try to naturally create traffic situations, and not forged / forced ones.

Quote from IsaacPrice :

CRAP

Why do you even care?

Am I not allowed to?

Please children, we've been over this before, who cares if people steal your setup, its not like teams are making setups from scratch for every race, the game as been untouched for ages and just about every team uses the same base setup with a very little modifications to suite their driving style. There were and have been like 20+ people driving in the GTWS server in the past weeks, so to say he is forcing them to go onto the server to test it is quite stupid considering there are tons of people going on it anyways.

Quote from vipex123 :

Con's:
- FPS issues, wont name names but someone said if you have FPS issues then buy a new PC. Sure, feel free to buy me one. And my team mates while you're at it.

Oh please, if there is anyone who actually suffers from FPS loss from this, I'd like them to post in here, not you and other people saying "WELLLL some people might not have a great computer." And on that note, everyone in this league atm was pretty much in the 24 hour race last year, and well, no one seemed to have a problem with the boothy chicane, whats different from that to this?

Quote from Bmxtwins :

Not only is it 1 WEEK before qualifying begins, but teams have been practicing for a few weeks to get everything right. Not sure if changing corner is the right call. I think the idea can work, but maybe save it for next year. Because most people have sets worked out already.

So this one change, to one turn is going to require teams to re-do their setups? And how long does it take a person to re-learn ONE turn?

A little bit of change comes to a track and everyone brings out the worsts excuses of why we shouldn't use it. Aren't people complaining of racing the same tracks over and over again? Well, here's a bit of change. Have you not though with the driving standards and pace shown in the last round, the admins are simply doing this to avoid the inevitable. GT1s have certainly shown their attitude on the terms of traffic, and I doubt it'll change this round. Look I could care less what the decision is, but if you are going to try to post "Constructive criticism" you might actually want to think about what you are posting and not coming up with the most bullshit answer to try to make it look like its a terrible idea.

Quote from Yuusei :

Oh please, if there is anyone who actually suffers from FPS loss from this, I'd like them to post in here, not you and other people saying "WELLLL some people might not have a great computer." And on that note, everyone in this league atm was pretty much in the 24 hour race last year, and well, no one seemed to have a problem with the boothy chicane, whats different from that to this?

You take one of my points and ridicule it in an attempt to undermine the entire post? You want people who have issues with FPS to post here? Well here I am. I have issues at South City and I look forwards to places such as Aston where the track is open and there are few objects added. Adding them to a place such as the chicane does no favours for people who don't have the latest trends of computers. Yes it was a fickle point but a point nonetheless, adding unnecessary objects (in my opinion) to a corner such as the chicane isn't needed, and this is a point highlighted as a Con.

There is no real difference, I still experienced issues during the 24 hours at Kyoto but didn't complain about it because its better than a buggy to f*ck curb that has a 50/50 chance of either letting you through or "you shall not pass" and wrecking damper. Since that's not an issue in this circumstance I don't see why I or anyone else who experiences similar issues should have to put up with it. I hope that answers your rhetoric.

Not even going to get into the setupgate debate since it's all mindless drivle at the end of the day. Welcome back to LFS ineX.

Quote from CodeLyoko1 :

trust me, you don't need the latest trend to run lfs at highest settings. you can even run it with decent fps on very, very old computers (not kidding)

I appreciate that but my PC is totally screwed, and I'm not in such a fortunate position where I can go out and buy a new one. I do struggle with my PC. For example the start of a race it like I am stuck in the matrix, and I don't even have an old PC, maybe 4 or 5 years old.

Besides, it was one of my points, I do think the other eleven points might warrant some attention rather than taking one and berating it, Phil asked for a constructive post and that's what I provided.

Quote from vipex123 :

for people who don't have the latest trends of computers.

trust me, you don't need the latest trend to run lfs at highest settings. you can even run it with decent fps on very, very old computers (not kidding)

I don't know, but this whole chicane affair seems to be strange. I've never heard of anyone complaining about this chicane before, so I'm surprised by this creation. But well, thinking ahead is something nice but why forcing it to be a public test? Why not making the layout public, and letting the teams test privately? I mean I see the point, of wanting to collect as much data as possible, but with a week left 'til the start of official competition there not much room left to analyze the data and to develop the chicane furhter from the point where it is now, plus there is no point to force the teams doing a layout they don't to adapt to with so little time left, bearing in mind, most teams need to train more than a week to succesfully race an endurance race.

I don't see the point of this.